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Nov 18, 2007 11:06:35 AM
- Turbo4ever
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- Reply to: andrea
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
PDK 7 speed sound awesome, need to decide manual or PDK.
PDK would make the car even more faster than the manual, maybe they gonna add launch assistant like GT2 for the manual?
no doubt PDK is good for the city and fast, but manual is pure fun.
when is Paris 2008?
PDK would make the car even more faster than the manual, maybe they gonna add launch assistant like GT2 for the manual?
no doubt PDK is good for the city and fast, but manual is pure fun.
when is Paris 2008?
Nov 18, 2007 2:04:54 PM
- MMD
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Turbo4ever said:
no doubt PDK is good for the city and fast, but manual is pure fun.
I thought that way before I got my 04 M3 with SMG. Now I think the opposite.
The rev matching for the downshifts is always perfect and extremely fast, incredible, like a _professional_ race car driver would do with a manual. That sensation alone makes SMG or PDK worth it. Plus you can downshift in a turn without any loss of balance and extremely fast perfect shifts accelerating.
The mental energy/effort required to sling your left leg, coordinate your right foot and arm, where do you think that can be used and re-focused? With PDK all that significant amount of brain power can now be applied to "higher-order" aspects of what the car is telling you and how the situation is changing or about to change. A whole other world opens up. That leg-arm slinging has been around for 100 years; it's alot of inefficiency if you want to transfer max power as quickly as possible to the road.
Soooo, after a few years of PDK (let them get the bugs out) it's gonna be hard to resist the urge to trade in my current TT manual tranny.
BTW, when PDK is introduced we should all prepare for endless debate on manual vs. computer-actuated clutch... . Will be "fun." Crazy because if you like fast _sports_ cars "resistance is futile; you _will_ be assimilated."
Nov 18, 2007 3:08:27 PM
- Alex_997TT
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- Reply to: andrea
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Thx for info, Andrea
So, roughly early CY09 deliveries of 997TT 2.0.....that PDK 1.0 will need to be awfully fast/smooth/smart/robust to compete w/whatever is F's/AMG's latest gearbox/chassis interface at that time...will be interesting to see if P is able to advance its relatively archaic PASM/PTM/PSM network to better interface w/PDK....
And, given how sclerotic/inept P R&D productivity seems (only required P 10+yrs post-F F1 1.0 to come up w/a paddleshifter box 1.0), any PDK 2.0 is prob multiple yrs (not mere mths) away.....
If all else fails, P can keep selling cars w/Luddite boxes&mech/analog chassis interfaces to elder nostalgia-seekers....sort of like the Cadillac/Lincoln marketing stgy vs the FL codger crowd....or selling CrownVics to police/taxi fleets....
So, roughly early CY09 deliveries of 997TT 2.0.....that PDK 1.0 will need to be awfully fast/smooth/smart/robust to compete w/whatever is F's/AMG's latest gearbox/chassis interface at that time...will be interesting to see if P is able to advance its relatively archaic PASM/PTM/PSM network to better interface w/PDK....
And, given how sclerotic/inept P R&D productivity seems (only required P 10+yrs post-F F1 1.0 to come up w/a paddleshifter box 1.0), any PDK 2.0 is prob multiple yrs (not mere mths) away.....
If all else fails, P can keep selling cars w/Luddite boxes&mech/analog chassis interfaces to elder nostalgia-seekers....sort of like the Cadillac/Lincoln marketing stgy vs the FL codger crowd....or selling CrownVics to police/taxi fleets....
Nov 18, 2007 4:23:01 PM
- khaosai
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Hi,
interesting bit of inside info which sounds good. Bit of a dilemma for me though, as i have a May delivery date on a manual.
So the million dollar question is:
Hold of for PDK Mk 1, OR
go ahead with the May 08 delivery, enjoy the experience and then move into PDK Mk 2 !.
If the source is correct, can we expect the revised tailights too ?.
As always, as mentioned above, wait for official confirmation.
Rgds.
interesting bit of inside info which sounds good. Bit of a dilemma for me though, as i have a May delivery date on a manual.
So the million dollar question is:
Hold of for PDK Mk 1, OR
go ahead with the May 08 delivery, enjoy the experience and then move into PDK Mk 2 !.
If the source is correct, can we expect the revised tailights too ?.
As always, as mentioned above, wait for official confirmation.
Rgds.
Nov 18, 2007 4:40:22 PM
- SoCal Alan
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
I am glad I didn't wait
Were you were expecting mid-2008 introduction? Or were you expecting the powerkit.
Nov 18, 2007 5:03:03 PM
- MKW
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- Reply to: SoCal Alan
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
I look at the Porsche PDK not as Mk 1, but Mk 8, as the major tranny manufacturers such as Gertrag and Borg Warner have learned a lot from the feedback/anger fits early adapters such as Ferrari's and BMW's owners have vented on for the past 7-8 years !
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
MMD said:
...The mental energy/effort required to sling your left leg, coordinate your right foot and arm, where do you think that can be used and re-focused? With PDK all that significant amount of brain power can now be applied to "higher-order" aspects of what the car is telling you and how the situation is changing or about to change. A whole other world opens up. That leg-arm slinging has been around for 100 years; it's alot of inefficiency if you want to transfer max power as quickly as possible to the road....
MMD, unfortunately, at least in the USA, all that supposedly significant amount of brain power will likely be applied to other tasks Americans seem to commit to whilst driving-namely, talking on the cell phone or text messaging, instead of focusing on the road.
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
MMD said:I thought that way before I got my 04 M3 with SMG. Now I think the opposite.
The mental energy/effort required to sling your left leg, coordinate your right foot and arm, where do you think that can be used and re-focused? With PDK all that significant amount of brain power can now be applied to "higher-order" aspects of what the car is telling you and how the situation is changing or about to change. A whole other world opens up. That leg-arm slinging has been around for 100 years; it's alot of inefficiency if you want to transfer max power as quickly as possible to the road.
Soooo, after a few years of PDK (let them get the bugs out) it's gonna be hard to resist the urge to trade in my current TT manual tranny.
BTW, when PDK is introduced we should all prepare for endless debate on manual vs. computer-actuated clutch... . Will be "fun." Crazy because if you like fast _sports_ cars "resistance is futile; you _will_ be assimilated."
Lol! Bang on as ever MMD. I had an SMG11 M3 and loved it, made roundabouts a circular heaven. But I just handed back a manual Turbo after a weekend test (mine's coming in March) and I reckon they will struggle to match the animalism of holding that stick and bossing that car. Sooner or later we'll all be paddling but for now I'll stick to sticking.
For myself I found the Tip Turbo an abomination, like shagging to a script. The PDK may hand back control somewhat but it's never going to have that tactile feel of a stick in the hand as you power out of a bend.
If it is good though I'll chop my Turbo at the drop of a hat like you. F**k it, I'm weak!
brad
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
khaosai said:
So the million dollar question is:
Hold of for PDK Mk 1, OR
go ahead with the May 08 delivery, enjoy the experience and then move into PDK Mk 2 !.
I had a similar dilemma. Since my M3 has SMG I really wanted the PDK in my TT but also didn't want to wait. Got a 2007 with manual.
My point: I never get in the car an wish I waited, nor even think about "what if" I waited. Unlike my former 997S the TT is just such a massive turn on to drive it's very hard to ask for more!
Conclusion: I would feel bad it I were the guy who got the _last_ car before PDK became available, or the guy who got the _last_ car before the facelift. The hundredth car before? Wouldn't bother me! Would not _let_ it bother me.
I hope this helps... .
Nov 18, 2007 7:58:43 PM
- Alex_997TT
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- Reply to: SoCal Alan
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
I am glad I didn't wait
Were you were expecting mid-2008 introduction? Or were you expecting the powerkit.
Yes on both counts. Was originally given a May 08 build date but managed to get it down to Nov 07. Glad I made the push!!! I wasn't sure at the time if a non-retrofittable powerkit would be out mid MY08.
Waiting an extra year for +25bhp on the facelift (equiv to an aftermarket sports exhaust) is wayyyyyyyyyy too much of a sacrifice
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
br d said:Quote:
MMD said:I thought that way before I got my 04 M3 with SMG. Now I think the opposite.
The mental energy/effort required to sling your left leg, coordinate your right foot and arm, where do you think that can be used and re-focused? With PDK all that significant amount of brain power can now be applied to "higher-order" aspects of what the car is telling you and how the situation is changing or about to change. A whole other world opens up. That leg-arm slinging has been around for 100 years; it's alot of inefficiency if you want to transfer max power as quickly as possible to the road.
Soooo, after a few years of PDK (let them get the bugs out) it's gonna be hard to resist the urge to trade in my current TT manual tranny.
BTW, when PDK is introduced we should all prepare for endless debate on manual vs. computer-actuated clutch... . Will be "fun." Crazy because if you like fast _sports_ cars "resistance is futile; you _will_ be assimilated."
Lol! Bang on as ever MMD. I had an SMG11 M3 and loved it, made roundabouts a circular heaven. But I just handed back a manual Turbo after a weekend test (mine's coming in March) and I reckon they will struggle to match the animalism of holding that stick and bossing that car. Sooner or later we'll all be paddling but for now I'll stick to sticking.
For myself I found the Tip Turbo an abomination, like shagging to a script. The PDK may hand back control somewhat but it's never going to have that tactile feel of a stick in the hand as you power out of a bend.
If it is good though I'll chop my Turbo at the drop of a hat like you. F**k it, I'm weak!
brad
agree 100% and would even say a TT without a clutch is an abomination. My daily 335i with paddleshifters shifts pretty quick and blips the throttle on downshifts and all that crap but it is still boring as hell. I'll stick to sticking too, until they stop making them sticks
Nov 18, 2007 10:15:15 PM
- devo
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
andrea said:
From my source
Paris 2008
PDK 7 gears also with LSD
DFI
powerkit for current 997 turbo for next spring cancelled
I am glad I didn't wait
Were you were expecting mid-2008 introduction? Or were you expecting the powerkit.
Yes on both counts. Was originally given a May 08 build date but managed to get it down to Nov 07. Glad I made the push!!! I wasn't sure at the time if a non-retrofittable powerkit would be out mid MY08.
Waiting an extra year for +25bhp on the facelift (equiv to an aftermarket sports exhaust) is wayyyyyyyyyy too much of a sacrifice
I understand not wanting to wait, but I am not a believer of 25 hp in an after market exhaust on a NA engine of this caliber, regardless of the claims. In my experience, I would expect a, roughly, 2% gain. I also think that 25 hp is substantial (although, I wish it was more, but really didn't expect it.), from the factory, as the current PK yields 1 hp more for an additional $17k USD. (I would expect 405 HP from the next gen PK)
Nov 18, 2007 11:45:24 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
devo said:
I understand not wanting to wait, but I am not a believer of 25 hp in an after market exhaust on a NA engine of this caliber, regardless of the claims. In my experience, I would expect a, roughly, 2% gain. I also think that 25 hp is substantial (although, I wish it was more, but really didn't expect it.), from the factory, as the current PK yields 1 hp more for an additional $17k USD. (I would expect 405 HP from the next gen PK)
NA = 'Normally Aspirated' yes? ...which the Turbo isn't
I am talking about Turbo powerkits/exhuast, are you talking about the Carrera S Powerkit?! If so I don't think they are comparable. You can get a lot more BHP tuning a Turbo than you can a naturally aspirated engine.
Nov 18, 2007 11:51:52 PM
- devo
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
devo said:
I understand not wanting to wait, but I am not a believer of 25 hp in an after market exhaust on a NA engine of this caliber, regardless of the claims. In my experience, I would expect a, roughly, 2% gain. I also think that 25 hp is substantial (although, I wish it was more, but really didn't expect it.), from the factory, as the current PK yields 1 hp more for an additional $17k USD. (I would expect 405 HP from the next gen PK)
NA = 'Normally Aspirated' yes? ...which the Turbo isn't
I am talking about Turbo powerkits/exhuast, are you talking about the Carrera S Powerkit?! If so I don't think they are comparable. You can get a lot more BHP tuning a Turbo than you can a naturally aspirated engine.
You're right. I don't know why I thought that I was responding on the 997 board. Agreed, tuning a FI engine yields far better results than a NA one.
Anyway, with either the power bumped 505 or pre-bumped 480, you'd get another 25 hp. Add that same exhaust to the newer car and you get 530, right?
Nov 19, 2007 2:29:57 PM
- Turbo4ever
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- Reply to: MMD
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
MMD said:Quote:
Turbo4ever said:
no doubt PDK is good for the city and fast, but manual is pure fun.
I thought that way before I got my 04 M3 with SMG. Now I think the opposite.
The mental energy/effort required to sling your left leg, coordinate your right foot and arm, where do you think that can be used and re-focused? With PDK all that significant amount of brain power can now be applied to "higher-order" aspects of what the car is telling you and how the situation is changing or about to change. A whole other world opens up. That leg-arm slinging has been around for 100 years; it's alot of inefficiency if you want to transfer max power as quickly as possible to the road.
Soooo, after a few years of PDK (let them get the bugs out) it's gonna be hard to resist the urge to trade in my current TT manual tranny.
BTW, when PDK is introduced we should all prepare for endless debate on manual vs. computer-actuated clutch... . Will be "fun." Crazy because if you like fast _sports_ cars "resistance is futile; you _will_ be assimilated."
That's why no more stick for high-class racing cars.
I have driven the F599 and that F1 gearbox is awesome. I wish DSG/PDK would cost less to maintain. Any thought about the maintain cost?
Just called my salesman to keep my deposit on the PDK RS, which I already placed that half year ago. Isn't the GT3/RS release at the same time?
And get the turbo here with PDK.
Let's move on!
Nov 19, 2007 3:18:47 PM
- TT Surgeon
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Nov 19, 2007 5:13:06 PM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
devo said:
Anyway, with either the power bumped 505 or pre-bumped 480, you'd get another 25 hp. Add that same exhaust to the newer car and you get 530, right?
Right, assuming that part of the new facelift power isn't from a sports exhaust.
The Cayenne facelifts with DI all generate about 4% more power through DI alone. If the same is true for the 911 engine then there's your 505bhp without having to do much else.
Nov 19, 2007 7:20:49 PM
- Crash
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Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
devo said:
Anyway, with either the power bumped 505 or pre-bumped 480, you'd get another 25 hp. Add that same exhaust to the newer car and you get 530, right?
Right, assuming that part of the new facelift power isn't from a sports exhaust.
The Cayenne facelifts with DI all generate about 4% more power through DI alone. If the same is true for the 911 engine then there's your 505bhp without having to do much else.
Exactly! And, assuming that the boost hasn't been increased, this would translate into basic mods reaching 570-580 bhp. That's some serious power.
Nov 19, 2007 7:40:47 PM
- Turbo4ever
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- Reply to: Crash
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
devo said:
Anyway, with either the power bumped 505 or pre-bumped 480, you'd get another 25 hp. Add that same exhaust to the newer car and you get 530, right?
Right, assuming that part of the new facelift power isn't from a sports exhaust.
The Cayenne facelifts with DI all generate about 4% more power through DI alone. If the same is true for the 911 engine then there's your 505bhp without having to do much else.
Exactly! And, assuming that the boost hasn't been increased, this would translate into basic mods reaching 570-580 bhp. That's some serious power.
whats the boost in the current car now?
Nov 19, 2007 8:11:34 PM
- Alex_997TT
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- Reply to: Turbo4ever
Re: Confirmed info&specs 997 Turbo Facelift
Quote:
Turbo4ever said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
Alex_ said:Quote:
devo said:
Anyway, with either the power bumped 505 or pre-bumped 480, you'd get another 25 hp. Add that same exhaust to the newer car and you get 530, right?
Right, assuming that part of the new facelift power isn't from a sports exhaust.
The Cayenne facelifts with DI all generate about 4% more power through DI alone. If the same is true for the 911 engine then there's your 505bhp without having to do much else.
Exactly! And, assuming that the boost hasn't been increased, this would translate into basic mods reaching 570-580 bhp. That's some serious power.
whats the boost in the current car now?
Off the top of my head,
Turbo = 1.0 bar (only in Sports Mode)
GT2 = 1.4 bar
GT2 also has the added power from redesign of the turbocharger, new expansion intake system and maybe help from the new titanium sports exhaust too.
I expect Porsche won't add any of these until the 998 though as they need to keep something in reserve.
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