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    Jun 11, 2004 11:25:58 AM

    cnc
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    Turbo versus SL 55

    I'm thinking over this choice. My last Mercedes, a G500 was bought back by MB because of software problems. To be fair, they were profesional and courteous about it.

    I've read where the SL55 has also has it share of problems and buybacks, software, rattles etc.

    Does anyone know if these problems are endemic or just isolated? Any good sources of info, websites etc?

    It does seem that at the moment there are quite a few SL 55s available for immediate delivery, so maybe they are now discounting them.

    Jun 11, 2004 2:25:27 PM

    WBH
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    Reply to: cnc

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Quote:
    cnc said:
    I'm thinking over this choice. My last Mercedes, a G500 was bought back by MB because of software problems. To be fair, they were profesional and courteous about it.

    I've read where the SL55 has also has it share of problems and buybacks, software, rattles etc.

    Does anyone know if these problems are endemic or just isolated? Any good sources of info, websites etc?

    It does seem that at the moment there are quite a few SL 55s available for immediate delivery, so maybe they are now discounting them.



    Unfortunately, I suspect electronics-intensive cars like the SL55 will be something of a crapshoot in terms of reliability. I have heard from trusted MB sources that current SL55s are more reliable than early-production copies; anecdotally, I know several guys w/'04 SL55s that are bulletproof in terms of reliability. I would bet that 996TTS will be much more reliable than an SL55, given 996TT's track record to-date, although I've heard negative feedback on structural stability, safety, rattles, etc. of TTCab vs SL; also, the PCCB may be a systems failure/expensive (some $20K+)warranty dispute issue if you track the car. In terms of resale value, at least in SF/LA mkts, I suspect SL55 will hold the edge vs 996TTS, w/360Spyder or CS towering over both cars in this dept.

    Jun 13, 2004 2:29:50 AM

    Moogle
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    we had this exact same problem... 05 996 Turbo 'S' is now on order.

    beats merc's suspect reliability/prestige/sports car performance (ie. around actual TURNS) - all hands down.

    Jun 13, 2004 4:23:44 AM

    DEETZ
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Porsche there is no substitute

    Jul 5, 2004 1:21:56 AM

    Ferdie
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Did you hear anything about the SBC brake in the SL...?

    Jul 5, 2004 1:59:26 AM

    Moogle
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    they recalled about 300k units worldwide of E, S, SL, CL(?)

    they claim that it isn't as big as the media makes it out to be, and that a backup brake pump or whatever will kick in...

    however, it was only a matter of time before they got ahead of themselves with all these electronic gizmo nanny thing-a-majigs...

    no one makes sports cars like porsche, sure the interior isnt as luxurious as the mercs, and there arent as many high tech electronic features (like DVD, mp3 playback,etc)... but thats not why we buy sports cars,

    so if you want a sports car, its a simple decision. porsche

    Jul 5, 2004 2:29:05 AM

    lev
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    Reply to: cnc

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Please avoid it (SL55) if you can. Turbo is a better buy and that what I did, taking SL to a test drive and then my Merc dealership guy told me I did the right thing buying TT and not SL55 after learning that I bought one.

    We had two Merc (E430 and M500), so I could get a nice deal still the car despite its many advantages just doesnt impress me - no character what so ever. Just a fast, very fast Merc.

    Turbo (now) also will hold better price probably not mentioning you can get a great deal with TurboS - ask Moogle

    Jul 5, 2004 2:35:27 AM

    Moogle
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    heheh, not to mention that porsche design is timeless.

    old p-cars, especially turbos (ie. widebody), look DAMN good.

    can you say that about the last generation SL? - after 7~ years, it looks like a poorly glued together cardboard box.

    compare that to the boxster, or 993 turbo, (similar aged cars)... and you've got your answer.

    mercedes designs dont age well... with a few (and far between) exceptions.

    Jul 5, 2004 2:53:28 AM

    lev
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Agree about Mercedes with a possible exception of CLS...and 140 body coupe - the previous CL, design wise of course.

    Jul 6, 2004 10:43:40 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: lev

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Quote:
    they claim that it isn't as big as the media makes it out to be, and that a backup brake pump or whatever will kick in...




    I wish it was only hype, but it isn't. The cars normally require about 37-40 meters to stop from 100 km/h, while with the emergency system, the car takes over 100 (!!! ) meters to go from 100 to 0 km/h! That's over 330 feet to go from 62 mph to a dead stop. If that's what they call a "safety" system, I'll never buy a Mercedes...

    Jul 6, 2004 11:03:14 AM

    RCA
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    Reply to: cnc

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    After owning 4 Porsche sports cars (993 Targa, 996 C2, 996 C4 Powerkit, 996 Turbo), I decided to go for a Mercedes E55 AMG because I needed the extra space for my wife, the two kids and luggage but I didn't want to give away too much performance. I also liked the E55 design which I think is very nice. After owning the E55 for more than 8 months, after putting a lot of money in it ( by adding 300 kph speed limit raise, limited slip differential, remapped gearbox software, F1 safety car style steering wheel - ALL original AMG stuff installed in Affalterbach), I sold it because I had so many little problems with it, especially regarding electronics.
    But also because it lacked personality and "soul", as ridiculous this might sound to you. Driving it was just plain boring.

    I went for a Porsche again, the Cayenne Turbo. Now imagine that I'm a guy who gave up E55 performance for a SUV.
    And I'm much more happy with the Cayenne Turbo.

    So maybe you should think very well about buying a SL55, not only because of the little flaws it might have (however it seems that newer SL55 have much less problems according to my Mercedes mechanic and are highly recommended) but also because of driving fun. Testdrive both, the SL55 and the 996 Turbo and think very well about your final driving decision.

    Jul 7, 2004 8:27:33 AM

    crayphile
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Quote:
    RC said:Testdrive both, the SL55 and the 996 Turbo and think very well about your final driving decision.



    That should be more than enough to decide in favour of the 996 TT. Moreover, (sorry to get on my depreciation point again), but the SL55 drops like a stone -easily Pounds20K in the first year here in the UK.

    RC, I'm with you on the SUV point, I didn't think I would say this, but I really do enjoy my wife's Cayenne Turbo when I get behind the wheel.

    Jul 7, 2004 5:09:17 PM

    Moogle
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    why do we keep resurrecting this topic...

    it is clear which is the pure sports car and which is more of a luxury/old bald guy touring car.

    buy according to which image/lifestyle fits you/your wife.

    Jul 7, 2004 5:12:58 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: crayphile

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Crayphile,

    driving a Cayenne Turbo in Britain must be the most insane thing to do.
    I don't think there is a place on earth, where gasoline is more expensive - is it?

    Anyways, nice cars. My choice would definately be the 996TT, I still would feel a little insecure because of the electro-brake topic on the SL.

    Jul 7, 2004 5:14:52 PM

    Moogle
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    whats the price? 5-6 quid a gallon~? plus emission braket taxes. insane.

    Jul 7, 2004 6:58:34 PM

    crayphile
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    I plead insanity

    The current price is around Pounds4.00 to the gallon. Interestingly, I get about the same crawling around London from the Cayenne as I do from the 996 (around 10.8mpg). On a longer run the Cayenne is way behind at around 16mpg versus 21 for the 996

    Jul 7, 2004 9:56:01 PM

    Ferdie
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    No excuses, you must be addicted to speed. Aren't you? (I begin to like these icons...)

    4 Pounds for a gallon is absolutely insane, and I complain about prices in Germany - which are quite high already.

    What's the deal about the tax to go to London by car - do you have to pay it for each trip or do you get reduced price, if you go more frequently?

    Jul 7, 2004 10:19:22 PM

    WBH
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    No excuses, you must be addicted to speed. Aren't you? (I begin to like these icons...)

    4 Pounds for a gallon is absolutely insane, and I complain about prices in Germany - which are quite high already.

    What's the deal about the tax to go to London by car - do you have to pay it for each trip or do you get reduced price, if you go more frequently?



    Given garage spots in NYC/SF can cost $850/mth and there is often a wait list for these spots (and London is prob significantly more pricey than NYC/SF), I suspect buyer base for $100K+ commuter cars in these towns can afford the gas.....lots of money sloshing around NYC/London/SF...

    Jul 7, 2004 11:40:07 PM

    Moogle
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    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    yes but the 'support structure' for a 100k car in terms of monthly expenditure would add up to the cost of the car itself

    say you buy a 911 996 TT, monthly payment about $2200, then add the garage, nice ones about $1000 a month, gas, other related expenses your approaching 60-70 of your car's monthly payment. (im talking about london, adjusted to USD values for reference)

    truely insane,

    crayphile must be loaded

    Jul 8, 2004 1:50:58 AM

    WBH
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    yes but the 'support structure' for a 100k car in terms of monthly expenditure would add up to the cost of the car itself

    say you buy a 911 996 TT, monthly payment about $2200, then add the garage, nice ones about $1000 a month, gas, other related expenses your approaching 60-70 of your car's monthly payment. (im talking about london, adjusted to USD values for reference)

    truely insane,

    crayphile must be loaded



    Part of the cost of living in any of the world's epicenters....but these places also tend to have a disproportionate fraction of these $100K+ commuter cars (and $500K+ supercars)....what's so surprising about this phenomenon? ...most of the drivers of these cars in these cities are spending far less on their cars (w/fuel, insurance, garaging, etc.) as percentage of their income than is the typical Ford Expedition owner in suburban Atlanta/other back-office city.....

    Jul 8, 2004 2:37:30 AM

    Moogle
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    Reply to: WBH

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Part of the cost of living in any of the world's epicenters....but these places also tend to have a disproportionate fraction of these $100K+ commuter cars (and $500K+ supercars)....what's so surprising about this phenomenon? ...most of the drivers of these cars in these cities are spending far less on their cars (w/fuel, insurance, garaging, etc.) as percentage of their income than is the typical Ford Expedition owner in suburban Atlanta/other back-office city.....



    agreed, saw a guy park a cool looking car the other day on a pretty crappy avenue in NYC, a crowd started gathering, so i drove by for a closer look,

    black Mclaren F1, just slapped by the side of the street to do some grocery shopping, truely insane.

    Jul 8, 2004 9:58:15 AM

    crayphile
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    No excuses, you must be addicted to speed. Aren't you? (I begin to like these icons...)

    4 Pounds for a gallon is absolutely insane, and I complain about prices in Germany - which are quite high already.

    What's the deal about the tax to go to London by car - do you have to pay it for each trip or do you get reduced price, if you go more frequently?



    I don't do a huge amount of mileage so that keeps the costs just, and only just, digestable . See the Cayenne board for my thoughts on the Congestion Charge , which you quite rightly point out is a tax

    Jul 8, 2004 10:08:47 AM

    crayphile
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    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: Turbo versus SL 55

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    yes but the 'support structure' for a 100k car in terms of monthly expenditure would add up to the cost of the car itself

    say you buy a 911 996 TT, monthly payment about $2200, then add the garage, nice ones about $1000 a month, gas, other related expenses your approaching 60-70 of your car's monthly payment. (im talking about london, adjusted to USD values for reference)

    truely insane,

    crayphile must be loaded



    Moogle, you're growing on me . I would be loaded if I didn't waste all my money on cars I don't really need. Moreover, I could save that cash and buy a house rather than have to park on the street as I do now. But what's the point of having these toys when one is 65 might as well enjoy them now . I sure as hell didn't have a Turbo Cab when I was 18

    You all asked for it with this discussion on costs, so I will have to reiterate, far and away the biggest cost of owning a 996TT is the depreciation. And I'm more than happy to confess it troubles me a lot
     
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