Crown

Board: Other Sports Cars Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Oct 17, 2007 1:04:43 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004

    What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    I think one key thing that has been overlooked with all the discussions recently is what Mercedes and their board makes of Alonso. With the money Mercedes has tied up in marketing and worldwide promotion through F1, it clearly has been detrimental to their brand this year with all the bickering. Certainly not the image they would wish to project.

    It's interesting how Mercedes made a statement after the Stepneygate verdict in support of McLaren and re-affirming their commitment to the team.

    I think ultimately Alonso's fate, champion or not, will have been decided long ago by the real powers that be in Stuttgart. I also wonder how Max Mosley's behaviour will have gone down at Mercedes.

    Oct 17, 2007 1:38:38 PM

    Ferdie
    Rennteam VIP
    Ferdie
    Loc: Europe , Germany
    Posts: 8234, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 2, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    You brought up a viable issue. To me, it shows in an extraordinary manner who dependent even the best drivers are on the support and sympathy of their financiers.

    On the other hand it seems remarkable that C. Goshn secured Alonso's salary for the upcoming seasons, despite the company's very cost-efficient route they take.

    The fact that Ferrari considered Alonso as an option is often overlooked but shows the appreciation he receives in the business. Still...

    Oct 17, 2007 2:01:59 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    I do recall some media reports recently that Ghosn was unwilling to come up with more money and Flavio then went to ING and other big sponsors for more support to raise the necessary money.

    Oct 17, 2007 2:09:20 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    @cgt: you've raised a really important issue that I haven't heard anyone else talk about

    Since the long term contract to supply engines to McLaren is not going to change, if Mercedes is unhappy with negative publicity, then something has to give at the other end....I too find it inconceivable, now that you mention it, that Mercedes would want this intra-team infighting to persist much longer. The bad apple, no matter how amazing he may be on the track, will have to be jettisoned or he may risk bringing the whole thing down.

    Driver rivalry, even if intense, is one thing, tearing the team apart and threatening its very existence through FIA punishment is way beyond what is acceptable.

    MB spends hundreds of millions of Euros each year on McLaren. It's too much money for them to just sit back and watch the internecine warfare...

    As for Renault, I can't imagine they would suddenly 'find' enough money to pay Alonso the kind of money McLaren have been paying him - after all, insufficient money was the main reason why Alonso moved away from Renault in the first place (remember, Alonso kept saying back then that he had to "secure his future") - so I see Alonso taking a pay cut in order to remain on the grid next season...

    So he'll have to part with his SLR and go back to driving a Renault Megane Scenic

    Oct 17, 2007 2:16:26 PM

    964C2
    Expert
    964C2
    Loc: Dallas, TX , United States
    Posts: 1825, Gallery
    Registered on: May 11, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    The only thing Mercedes cares about is victories...2007 "8", in 2006 "0"!!
    The personality of the drivers is not an issue, but cheating by the team can tarnish them.

    Oct 17, 2007 2:16:51 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    [...] Flavio then went to ING and other big sponsors for more support to raise the necessary money.



    Interesting. This was ING's first season as a F1 team sponsor. Clearly their internal marketing dept will be very keen to show how successful their F1 advertising campaign has been so it should be possible to squeeze more money out of them.

    But ING is a cost-conscious, tightly-run Dutch business so it might not be possible to squeeze too much money out of them. Certainly one of the reasons why ING has failed in its investment banking plans (when it bought the collapsed Barings Bros) is because they aren't prepared to invest enough money to make it a success.

    Oct 17, 2007 2:36:18 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: 964C2

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    The only thing Mercedes cares about is victories...2007 "8", in 2006 "0"!!
    The personality of the drivers is not an issue, but cheating by the team can tarnish them.



    With respect, I disagree. A company such as Mercedes spends a HUGE amount of money on marketing and building their brand. This is intrinsically linked to their drivers, who are the main public face of the brand. For them to be in the tabloids every day surrounded by negative publicity can in no way be considered a good thing in Stuttgart.

    Especially so in the case of Mercedes, who in my view are the more conservative of the major motor manufacturers.

    Oct 17, 2007 3:14:27 PM

    doyle
    Co-Pilot
    doyle
    Loc:
    Posts: 160, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 1, 2003
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Who was it that said there is no such thing as bad publicity...?

    Oct 17, 2007 3:18:43 PM

    964C2
    Expert
    964C2
    Loc: Dallas, TX , United States
    Posts: 1825, Gallery
    Registered on: May 11, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    The only thing Mercedes cares about is victories...2007 "8", in 2006 "0"!!
    The personality of the drivers is not an issue, but cheating by the team can tarnish them.



    With respect, I disagree. A company such as Mercedes spends a HUGE amount of money on marketing and building their brand. This is intrinsically linked to their drivers, who are the main public face of the brand. For them to be in the tabloids every day surrounded by negative publicity can in no way be considered a good thing in Stuttgart.

    Especially so in the case of Mercedes, who in my view are the more conservative of the major motor manufacturers.


    You make a good point.....here in the U.S. we don't see drivers in M-B advertising.

    Oct 17, 2007 3:40:49 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: doyle

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Quote:
    doyle said:
    Who was it that said there is no such thing as bad publicity...?



    If you were talking about a wannabee actress/model/singer/Z list celebrity etc etc, then I would wholeheartedly agree with you.

    BUT, we're talking about a major motor manufacturer which has a marketing department responsible for advertising and helping to protect the value of the Mercedes Benz brand name. I'm sure MB also has a 'corporate communications' dept that handles all aspects of communicating corporate information that might have any impact upon the company's share price...these people take endless precautions to guard the reputation of the company.

    Gottlieb Daimler and Carl Benz invented the motor car. It is without doubt one of the most respected brands not just in the automotive industry but in any industry. Norbert Haug (Head of MB's Motorsports Division) simply would not allow the internecine struggles at Team McLaren to undermine the parent company's good name back in Stuttgart.

    So far, this dispute and the FIA's criticism has been directed solely at Team McLaren. It has not mentioned MB. Had it done so, Ron Dennis' position as boss at McLaren would not have lasted long. Those who hold the purse strings always call the shots.

    Speaking of which....Banco Santander seems to have scaled back a lot of its TV advertising in F1. They must have carried high hopes this year with a super-successful Spaniard as 2 time World Champion driving for McLaren. That's why they even held a pre-season event at Valencia.

    The key question is what will happen now? If Alonso goes, will Santander move too?

    Oct 17, 2007 7:11:39 PM

    janus Offline
    Veteran
    janus
    Loc: Croatia
    Posts: 1067, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 13, 2004
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    How much influence does MB has in dictating driver policy any way?

    Oct 17, 2007 7:18:36 PM

    Modrocket_stereo
    Veteran
    Modrocket_stereo
    Loc: Chicago
    Posts: 1178, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 8, 2003
    Reply to: janus

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    I love your icon Janus. Very fitting for the topic...

    Oct 17, 2007 7:27:39 PM

    mp
    Pilot
    mp
    Loc: New York, USA
    Posts: 361, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 4, 2006
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Quote:
    doyle said:
    Who was it that said there is no such thing as bad publicity...?



    If you were talking about a wannabee actress/model/singer/Z list celebrity etc etc, then I would wholeheartedly agree with you.

    BUT, we're talking about a major motor manufacturer which has a marketing department responsible for advertising and helping to protect the value of the Mercedes Benz brand name. I'm sure MB also has a 'corporate communications' dept that handles all aspects of communicating corporate information that might have any impact upon the company's share price...these people take endless precautions to guard the reputation of the company.



    Would be shocked to see Alonsa stay with McLaren/MB given what has happened - can't imagine MB being thrilled about it.

    However, FA does have a lucrative contract which I'm sure he will adhere to unless other similar ($$$) options are available - whether an exchange of drivers, MB/Mcl paying the difference etc.

    Too much damage has been done, to continue this NEGATIVE relationship - no different than a bad marriage. Once too many bad things happen or are said, there is NO turning back. Better to move on...

    As for Alonso, given his two world championships and familiarity with all of the circuits, he should have easily beaten Hamilton - but perhaps he is just a very good driver, certainly not a MS, Senna, GV, Prost etc. Infact, based on what I've seen this year, there may be 4-5 drivers in the top tier, including FA (Massa??? - he sure knows how to screw-up sometimes).

    While I would personally like to see Raikkonen win, unless Hamilton suffers a DNF, he will win the championship. Definitely don't want to see Alonso win a 3rd championship, especially given what has occurred this year.

    Oct 17, 2007 7:57:43 PM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: mp

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Well..Hamilton could go to Toyota And Alonso could stay at McLaren. Stranger things have happened!

    Put aside McLaren's cheating, Alonso's duplicity and Hamiltons remarkable rookie performances for one moment.

    What was Alonso thinking when he joined McLaren??

    Did he not know of their team policy of no #1 driver?

    Did McLaren represent to him with a Wink Wink Nod Nod that HE would be the Number One driver on the team???????

    Just what representations and garuntees did McLaren actually make to him besides money? We don't know.
    And we really don't know the details about what tensions, games and tones started when Hamilton started to do well and Ron playing the Union Jack jingo card about it with the press.

    I think most of McLarens stink starts at the Top. They are a "team" in name only and that is the fault of thier fearless leader.

    Oct 17, 2007 10:54:38 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Well..Hamilton could go to Toyota And Alonso could stay at McLaren. Stranger things have happened!

    Put aside McLaren's cheating, Alonso's duplicity and Hamiltons remarkable rookie performances for one moment.

    What was Alonso thinking when he joined McLaren??

    Did he not know of their team policy of no #1 driver?

    Did McLaren represent to him with a Wink Wink Nod Nod that HE would be the Number One driver on the team???????

    Just what representations and garuntees did McLaren actually make to him besides money? We don't know.
    And we really don't know the details about what tensions, games and tones started when Hamilton started to do well and Ron playing the Union Jack jingo card about it with the press.

    I think most of McLarens stink starts at the Top. They are a "team" in name only and that is the fault of thier fearless leader.



    We can only speculate, but my interpretation is that Alonso did not even give No.1 status a thought because he thought in the natural order of things, he would automatically assume that role. What nobody, including Alonso or Ron Dennis, thought of was how much of a phenomenon LH would be this year and how his abilities would be so closely matched to the twice WDC. Witness the huge disparity in salary this year between Alonso and LH. Hamilton was only ever meant to be a supporting player. Had Hamilton been half a second slower than Alonso, one thing is for sure, Alonso would be very happily settled at McLaren today and I'm sure there would be a very nice atmosphere in Woking and Stuttgart.

    But what is a racing driver meant to do if not race to the best of his ability? Hamilton got his opportunity and he took it with both hands. What else could he possibly do in his position?

    I really think Alonso has boxed himself in a bit because wherever he goes now, of course he will not make the same mistake again and ensure he has undisputed No.1 status. Most teams, despite what Alonso says, would be unwilling to effectively halve their possibilities of scoring constructors points by having a patsy in the second car. Even at Renault, the only real possibility Alonso would agree to is Fisichella in my opinion, because with Heikki and definitely with Piquet, he would have the same situation again, a hotshot rookie with nothing to lose and everything to gain. Wonder what will happen

    Oct 18, 2007 1:09:57 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Looks like we have an answer!

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,22610347-23210,00.html

    Oct 18, 2007 1:43:52 PM

    easy_rider911
    Rennteam VIP
    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Great find - seems to confirm exactly what we thought Alonso has shot himself in the foot. He could have had a glittering career at McLaren for even 5-10 years. Instead it looks like Hamilton will enjoy that instead.

    Alonso bit the hand that feeds him. Never a wise move.

    Oct 18, 2007 1:53:37 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Interestingly it seems McLaren's website hasnt been updated for some time as they still quote Alonso as saying his plan is to win 'several championships' with the team.

    But then again, they are also still listing Mike Coughlan under 'technical staff'

    Oct 18, 2007 6:23:58 PM

    janus Offline
    Veteran
    janus
    Loc: Croatia
    Posts: 1067, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 13, 2004
    Reply to: Modrocket_stereo

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Quote:
    Modrocket_stereo said:
    I love your icon Janus. Very fitting for the topic...



    Indeed

    Oct 18, 2007 11:53:59 PM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: janus

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Niki Lauda's view..


    http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=General&PO_ID=41081

    Niki says that Alonso's behaviour has actually been worse than what is publicly known

    Oct 19, 2007 1:19:51 AM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: cgt

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    "I heard that when Ron walks into the building and says hello, the boss to his employee, he looks away.

    This is not normal education. Maybe in Spain they don't educate themselves in these villages where he comes from, but all these things I do not understand."

    Lauda's comments seem patronizing and condescending to say the least.

    Maybe Lauda's education lacked something for him to make such a comments about people in Spains villages. And to infer that Alonso is just some naive uneducated villager
    is pretty fkkkn arrogant.

    Oct 19, 2007 2:21:15 AM

    Modrocket_stereo
    Veteran
    Modrocket_stereo
    Loc: Chicago
    Posts: 1178, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 8, 2003
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    This is all stipulation and how people perceive the action of others. All in all how we interperate certain situations will vary from one person to another. Some make a big deal about something while others won't in that same situation. Just maybe, all of the stuff we are hearing is all the bad because the people who feed us the information can control what they give us, which in turn might be all the dark stuff and none of the lighter sides of Alonso. I am not much of a fan of his but in his defense, this is getting out of hand. Is it really this bad? Only the racing team knows this; including drivers and team directors.

    Oct 19, 2007 6:07:14 AM

    JimFlat6
    Rennteam VIP
    JimFlat6
    Loc: Cave , United States
    Posts: 8633, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 25, 2004
    Reply to: Modrocket_stereo

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Hamilton and Alonso are buddies according to the Times

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article2690007.ece

    Just who is manipulating who via McLaren and their PR department ??????

    Oct 19, 2007 8:36:41 AM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    When he referred to education, I took that to mean 'manners'..if Alonso has shown one thing this year it is that he is not a fool. Even though he acts like one sometimes..

    Oct 19, 2007 8:39:45 AM

    cgt
    Co-Pilot
    cgt
    Loc: London
    Posts: 243, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 24, 2004
    Reply to: JimFlat6

    Re: What does Mercedes Benz think of Alonso?

    Quote:
    JimFlat6 said:
    Hamilton and Alonso are buddies according to the Times

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article2690007.ece

    Just who is manipulating who via McLaren and their PR department ??????



    Interesting insight from the same reporter

    http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/

    I think they are probably happy because after this weekend they will be rid of each other
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/17/24 7:16 AM
    GnilM     		776836 1798
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		441572 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		262702 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		260846 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		85124 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		5520 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 880567 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		815723 3868
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		390855 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug     		389887 1454
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		372099 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		368851 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie     		289079 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 261222 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		240075 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		230210 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		221147 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		169128 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		140944 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		117402 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		108537 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		84100 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		75034 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		53604 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM     		24971 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		21165 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		19483 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16579 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA     		13679 225
    Motor Sp. 24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018 5/25/23 10:42 PM
    Grant     		11244 55
    126 items found, displaying 1 to 30.