Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997S or 996 Turbo? - Page1

Sep 8, 2007 2:43:49 AM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006

997S or 996 Turbo?

What would you choose? An 11,800 miles 2006 Carrera S with X51 and factory Aerokit with other options that pushed the MSRP to $121500 or a late (2004-2005) 996 Turbo or Turbo S with similar mileage? There will be a substantial depreciation hit on the 997 S if I go this route but this question is about which is the better car, without regard to monetary issues. So, what would this poll reveal?

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Sep 8, 2007 3:04:41 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

I'd go for the 997S...

I like the style and the X51/PSE is music to my ears.

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Sep 8, 2007 6:34:52 AM

Marwan Arakji: Senior; Loc: Lebanon , Lebanon; Posts: 572, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 11, 2006; Reply to: SVNSVN

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

The C2S with the X51 PowerKit is a monster, and a lot more fun than the 996TT, especially at the low-end... and I'm almost sure it beats the TT around a track...

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Sep 8, 2007 12:18:46 PM

1st997: Co-Pilot; Loc: CT; Posts: 272, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 21, 2005; Reply to: Marwan Arakji

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

997s which is also safer with the addition of side air bags.

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Sep 8, 2007 1:00:49 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: 1st997

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

If you want a safer car, get a Volvo.

997S w/x51 all the way. BUT, unless you're getting a great deal, you'd be better off waiting for the facelift. It will likely have at least the same hp as x51.

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Sep 8, 2007 3:37:08 PM

mvn1971: Senior; Loc: HB, California, USA; Posts: 658, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 9, 2006; Reply to: devo

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

997S X51 hands down.

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Sep 8, 2007 5:12:23 PM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: mvn1971

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

this is a tough choice...Looking from a "cold" point of view, may be its better the 996turbo S, due to depreciation...I think 997S with all those options + x51, will depreciate much faster than the turbo S....Turbo S is much more exclusive, and more difficult to search for one....

In terms of engine sound, I prefer a 997S, and even more with X51 installed, no doubt at all!!

This is a tough choice I must say, Im in love with the 996 series, including the simple interior they have, not as luxurious as now, and probably thats something I like more...

Another point to think about is the handling, 997 series is just planets away...

I'll probably go for the 996turbo S if the mileage is low, but still one part of my heart would say 997SX51

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Sep 8, 2007 7:59:20 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Alex18_996CC

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

From a resale point of view, I agree the turbo S will hold up much better. (The original question asked that money/resale not be considered).

Anyway, re; 996 turbos. I've seen an occassional turbo S (less than 8k) in the $105-110k range.

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Sep 8, 2007 11:48:03 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: devo

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

I just went from 997S to 997TT.

For the kind of driving I (we?) do (streets and highways) I believe nothing is better than the HP/Tq.

The 997 TT's steering feel is a little numb but I do not miss it from the 997S. I'm not going to hit corners and accelerate out of them like I was on a track.

What I do is pass slower cars. The more HP/Tq you have the better.

Okay, but this thread is about 996 TT and 997S.

997 series is a quantum leap over the 996 series cars; no contest between 996S and 997S. However now I'd say it's dead even between 997S and 996TT. Decide what you need most: HP or precise handling.

BTW, FWIW, If it were a choice between 997S and 997TT there's zero chance of me ever wanting a 997S again for streets and highways.

Just my us$.02

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Sep 9, 2007 1:15:50 AM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

996TT is just out dated

and soft around the corners go for the 997S

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Sep 9, 2007 4:18:24 PM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: edz

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

I've driven the 2001 996 Turbo that my brother had prior to buying his F430 and I loved the car. At that time, I had a 2004 996 C4S and I kept it when I should have traded cars with my brother. That would have saved me a lot of money because I ended up selling the C4S and buying the Carrera S that I mentioned in this post. I am trying to make up my mind as to wether or not I'd be better off, as far as depreciation is concerned, by selling my Carrera S now and cutting my losses and moving on to a very nice 996 Turbo S that is Certified Pre-Owned until 2010 with 16,000 miles. For comparison reasons, my Carrera S is a 2006 with X51 and Aerokit as well as adaptive sports seata, Carrera Classic wheels, full leather interior, Bose Surround Sound and a myriad other options that made me pay $121430 for it when all was said and done. I optioned the car like that because I intended it to be a "keeper." Now, with all that goes around regarding the M96/M97 family of engines and their wet sumps, RMSs, their completely removed origins from the GT1 engine the Turbo carries, I have something like a "chip on the shoulder" when I encounter GT3, GT2 and Turbo owners, something like a feeling that my car is missing the essence of continuity that all other 911 have had since 1.963 - sort of an inferiority complex.
By the way, I do love the way the 997 drives when changing directions, turning and how it feels nimbler than the 2001 Turbo as well as the sound of the atmospheric engine at full rpms with the PSE, but I don't think it is objective since it's been a while since I drove the Turbo and it wasn't a last year model with all the improvements those models should have. I also love the 997s interior more than the 996 series but it's not like the 996 series is bad at all! Like I said, if I had kept my brother's Turbo and sold the Carrera 4S, I wouldn't be in this position as I'd be very happy with that car as a keeper and would have saved me over $50,000 plus any depreciation I would incurr if I do sell my 997 S.

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Sep 9, 2007 5:01:23 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

Quote:
cibergypsy said:
I've driven the 2001 996 Turbo that my brother had prior to buying his F430 and I loved the car. At that time, I had a 2004 996 C4S and I kept it when I should have traded cars with my brother. That would have saved me a lot of money because I ended up selling the C4S and buying the Carrera S that I mentioned in this post. I am trying to make up my mind as to wether or not I'd be better off, as far as depreciation is concerned, by selling my Carrera S now and cutting my losses and moving on to a very nice 996 Turbo S that is Certified Pre-Owned until 2010 with 16,000 miles. For comparison reasons, my Carrera S is a 2006 with X51 and Aerokit as well as adaptive sports seata, Carrera Classic wheels, full leather interior, Bose Surround Sound and a myriad other options that made me pay $121430 for it when all was said and done. I optioned the car like that because I intended it to be a "keeper." Now, with all that goes around regarding the M96/M97 family of engines and their wet sumps, RMSs, their completely removed origins from the GT1 engine the Turbo carries, I have something like a "chip on the shoulder" when I encounter GT3, GT2 and Turbo owners, something like a feeling that my car is missing the essence of continuity that all other 911 have had since 1.963 - sort of an inferiority complex.
By the way, I do love the way the 997 drives when changing directions, turning and how it feels nimbler than the 2001 Turbo as well as the sound of the atmospheric engine at full rpms with the PSE, but I don't think it is objective since it's been a while since I drove the Turbo and it wasn't a last year model with all the improvements those models should have. I also love the 997s interior more than the 996 series but it's not like the 996 series is bad at all! Like I said, if I had kept my brother's Turbo and sold the Carrera 4S, I wouldn't be in this position as I'd be very happy with that car as a keeper and would have saved me over $50,000 plus any depreciation I would incurr if I do sell my 997 S.

PM me if you decide to sell it!

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Sep 10, 2007 12:26:34 PM

kavaron: Newbie; Loc: Athens, Greece; Posts: 11, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2007; Reply to: devo

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

I had the same dillema and I chose a 997s with aerokit. It looks MUCH better, handles better and sounds better!

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Sep 12, 2007 2:44:46 AM

baptist: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 4, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 9, 2007; Reply to: kavaron

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

I'd go for the 997S, the car is more advanced, better interior, better exterior, and although it doesnt have the same power/torque as the turbo, the turbo can never match the sound of the N/A engine.

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Sep 12, 2007 6:01:35 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: baptist

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

People are biased...
On this board you are clearly advised to choose the 997.
Your same question on the 996 Turbo board has a wast majority telling you to get the 996 turbo.

So...should we take the advice on Rennteam as objective

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Sep 12, 2007 6:25:38 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

I went from a 996 turbo to a 997 S cabrio but only made the switch because of the convertible, don't think I would have traded otherwise so I'd probably say 996 turbo especially if a turbo S.

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Sep 16, 2007 12:28:45 AM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

Today I drove a 2005 996 Turbo S with only 14.5K miles on its odomoter. The car is much - and I mean - much faster than my 2006 X51 Carrera S, without any exaggeration on my part. It is definitely a lot faster off the line due to the huge torque this motor produces, and also faster on the top rpm range - this car has a substantial amount of more hp than the 381 my Carrera S can produce. I could feel a bit more turbo lag, as compared to a standard 996 Turbo, but nothing significant at all: its response is very quick and only a bit than a standard 996 Turbo. As far as cornering/handling abilities, I can say nothing good or bad as my test drive (in Florida) didn't include any roads with turns.

I like the looks of my 997 far more than the 996 series but it's not like the 996 is a bad looking car, far from it! It's just that to me, the 997 looks more like a traditional 911 than the 996. One aspect I am definitely in favor of the 997 is the interior quality. IMO, the 997 is a giant leap ahead of the 996 in design and quality albeit not in ergonomics. Again, this is just my opinion.

So, as it stands, my search for a 996 Turbo or Turbo S is based only on the grounds of engine durability, credentials and pedigree. So, to any of you guys, where is the money better spent? Not taking into consideration money or looks, which is the better buy as far as getting a "proper" 911? The GT1 derived 996 Turbo or the "integrated dry sump" M97 Carrera? I have a lot of fun on my Carrera, don't get me wrong. I love the car but, every time I open its user's manual and read Porsche's disclaimer about fitting racing tires on the car and the possibility of damage to the engine due to oil starvation, it just makes me a bit conscious of not having a "real" 911. Am I exaggerating or not? Advise from other enthusiasts is the best way to gauge the extent of this issue. I mean, do owners of GT3s, GT2s and Turbos look down on us for having an M96 or M97 motor? Are we providing more of a margin of profit to Porsche for buying a car that, specified in a way as to make it right, costs close to a GT3 but its engine is 1/3 the cost? Are buyers of other marques right in calling an M96 or M97 motor a "wet sump POS"?

It's not my intention to stir trouble here but only to exchange objective ideas into these issues that may be of importance to some of us, as I am one of those who own a Porsche with an M97 motor and would love it 100% were it not for this issue.

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Sep 16, 2007 12:57:04 PM

Shark01: Newbie; Loc: Houston, Tx; Posts: 15, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2005; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

A 997 is a great sportscar. A Porsche Turbo, any Turbo, is a legend, the car that defines the glory that is Porsche. Every Porsche owner deserves to feel the legend in their hands at least once in their life.

In particular, a 996 Turbo plus $7,000 for coilovers, an ECU flash, and a free flowing exhaust makes for a car with virtually no peers......amazing.

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Sep 17, 2007 6:57:53 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: Shark01

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

Quote:
Shark01 said:
A 997 is a great sportscar. A Porsche Turbo, any Turbo, is a legend, the car that defines the glory that is Porsche. Every Porsche owner deserves to feel the legend in their hands at least once in their life.

In particular, a 996 Turbo plus $7,000 for coilovers, an ECU flash, and a free flowing exhaust makes for a car with virtually no peers......amazing.

I went from a 997 C2S to the car above and entirely agree with these comments. A a 996 turbo with coilovers with its neutral and predictable handling at the limit is a very hard car to beat on any road or track.

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Sep 18, 2007 1:13:25 AM

chuckd: Newbie; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 42, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

I figure we all get what we pay for.

You spend over $100K, you have a car that can compete with exotics (TT/GT3 vs Lambo, Ferrari).

Under $100K, the Carrera and C2S compete with all others (this is where the z06 mops the floor with Porsche).

If you are a die-hard Porsche fan, and you demand the best they have to offer, get the GT1 based engined cars in the TT and GT3. Its going to cost you though...

I figure I'll enjoy my wet sump POS 997S for now until I'm ready to buy another 911. The next one will either be a used 997TT or the new 998 (it has to be REALLY GOOD if I'm going to pay for another wet sump engine).

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Sep 18, 2007 1:59:08 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: chuckd

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

I think you are exaggerating. The M97 is still a fantastic engine, and your 997S is an incredible ride with the most superbly engineered chassis and suspension set up around. You've also got an outstanding set of brakes there. The result is the most versatile sportscar on the planet.

My 997S is my daily driver and my track car. On the track I am very close to the GT3's during autocross and my car is absolutely stock without even a recent alignment or track set up. The Turbos gain on me in the straights, but I am faster in the turns. I beat all the Turbos at our autocross events.

If you want the car mostly or exclusively for track use, and you plan to use R-comps and or a seriously banked track, then you should consider looking at the GT1 derived 3.6L, but otherwise, there's no need for an inferiority complex if you enjoy the way the car drives. I guarantee you that on the contrary, I probably get more respect at the track for beating or hanging with the Turbos or GT3s with my "plain" 911. It's my secret weapon - a "civilized GT3" that makes a great daily driver too.

On the otherhand, if you just love the rush of the 911 Turbo's acceleration, I gotta admit that that is seriously tempting. Plus the 911TT can be moded to provide just about anything you might ever want. That, not pedigree, should be your major motivation.

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Sep 18, 2007 2:53:52 AM

911Dave: Newbie; Loc: Denver; Posts: 44, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 11, 2006; Reply to: Silver Bullet

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

360 Modena for the same price

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Sep 18, 2007 3:07:44 AM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: chuckd

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

Quote:
chuckd said:
I figure we all get what we pay for.

You spend over $100K, you have a car that can compete with exotics (TT/GT3 vs Lambo, Ferrari).

Under $100K, the Carrera and C2S compete with all others (this is where the z06 mops the floor with Porsche).

If you are a die-hard Porsche fan, and you demand the best they have to offer, get the GT1 based engined cars in the TT and GT3. Its going to cost you though...

I figure I'll enjoy my wet sump POS 997S for now until I'm ready to buy another 911. The next one will either be a used 997TT or the new 998 (it has to be REALLY GOOD if I'm going to pay for another wet sump engine).

When I wrote "wet sump POS", I wrote "Are buyers of other marques right in calling an M96 or M97 motor a "wet sump POS"?" - not that I thought that way about our M96 or M97 engined Porsches. I just wanted to clarify that.

What I meant was to ask the fellow users of this forum wether or not buyers of other marques, who refer to M96 or M97 engined Porsches in that derogatory manner, were correct in thinking that way or not.

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Sep 18, 2007 3:14:16 AM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: 911Dave

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

Quote:
911Dave said:
360 Modena for the same price

I've already been there as I owned a 2001 360 F1 before. I moved away from a 2 seater car for good ever since I got my kids because I want to enjoy the cars I own as much a possible. The 360 is a fantastic car but I love my brother's F430 even more!

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Sep 18, 2007 7:35:35 AM

chuckd: Newbie; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 42, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

Silverbullet/Cybergipsy, my "M96/M97 POS" comment was very sarcastic in nature, as I do agree it is a brilliant machine! It is the best car I've owned, and I'm still excited to drive it everyday I go to my garage.

It has had zero problems thus far, and I am one very happy camper! I just take it for what it really is though: a watered down, user-friendly version of the GT3/Turbo!

I must admit though, it has surprised me with its performance. I've been able to pull on a few unsuspecting owners of competing marques, and to both of our surprises, the Carrera S performed well.

The GT Porsche article showing the different performance levels of the C2S w/x51, GT3, RS, and TT actually made me feel better about my purchase, since it is still good enough to hang with the big boys on the straights and not too far off on the track! (So the M97 really is NOT a POS in my book).

Since I am enjoying this car so much, I'm really taking my time in deciding what my next car will be: 997TT or something else completely different.

It makes waiting for a used 997TT totally worth it, as I feel very satisfied with my 911 fix

Who knows, I may not even sell the car and the Ruf R Kompressor conversion may be my next step?!?!

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Sep 19, 2007 7:13:43 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: chuckd

Re: 997S or 996 Turbo?

There are many insecure people out there who believe that they have to have the 'best' of everything. That equates to a turbo something from Porsche. Realistically, most Porsche turbo buyers in America never (1) have the chance to actually use its potential and (2) lack the skills to drive that car anywhere near its limits. It has become a status symbol,--even more so than a Carrera. Before you make a decision like this go drive both vehicles. There are plenty out there to try.

Dan

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