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    Sep 13, 2007 5:04:40 PM

    schmuy Offline
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    McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Saw this on another forum. I didn't believe it. Anyone know more?

    (based on article: http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/09/13/mclaren-team-excluded-from-f1-in-2007-and-2008/ )

    Sep 13, 2007 5:17:46 PM

    wtsnet
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    Reply to: schmuy

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Still waiting verdict at the moment. Should have been decided by now... Wait and see.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6991147.stm

    Sep 13, 2007 5:28:36 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: wtsnet

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    McLaren have been stripped of their points in the 2007 Formula One constructors championship after the outcome of the 'spygate' row.
    The team was also fined $100m (Pounds49.2m) and will have to subject its 2008 cars to examination before racing, but the drivers retain their points this year.

    Sep 13, 2007 5:30:23 PM

    Roessingh Schale
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Are they gone? for this year and next year?

    Sep 13, 2007 6:04:35 PM

    wtsnet
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    Reply to: Roessingh Schale

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    This is breaking news. The link I posted above has now been updated with the point-stripping news. They have to prove there is no Ferrari technology in their car for next year before they will be allowed to race.

    Sep 13, 2007 7:15:23 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: wtsnet

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Mclaren will be allowed to compete in next years championship
    It's only this years they won't be competeting.

    Sep 13, 2007 7:18:22 PM

    Ron (Houston)M
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    Reply to: schmuy

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    What an embarrassment

    http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2007/9/6767.html

    Sep 13, 2007 7:20:56 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: Ron (Houston)M

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Ferrari are the biggest cheaters and i hope that Mclaren will go after them for using the illegal Flex-Floor.

    I want war!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is going to get even more ugly.

    Sep 13, 2007 7:52:48 PM

    Mike S
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    This is F1 not bloody days of our lives... Puts me off the sport as a whole now!

    Sep 13, 2007 8:05:11 PM

    Alex18_996CC Offline
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    Reply to: Emperor

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    luwalira said:
    Ferrari are the biggest cheaters and i hope that Mclaren will go after them for using the illegal Flex-Floor.

    I want war!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is going to get even more ugly.




    +1

    Sep 13, 2007 8:06:44 PM

    Dr. Phil Offline
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    Reply to: Mike S

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    What a joke. "Pay up, and it's alright."
    If the FIA really meant it, they would of course have excluded the whole team including the drivers.
    Who cares about constructor's championship anyway?
    Besides, exactly what did McLaren steal from Ferrari? I dont get this.

    This whole thing wreaks. It's like a kindergarten.

    Sep 13, 2007 8:12:05 PM

    Emperor
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    We all know that FIA stands for Ferrari's International Assistance. This is nothing but a witch hunt and I hope that Mclaren will appeal.

    Hamilton FTW!!!!


    Sep 14, 2007 8:53:13 AM

    temm
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    Reply to: Dr. Phil

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    What a joke. "Pay up, and it's alright."
    If the FIA really meant it, they would of course have excluded the whole team including the drivers.
    Who cares about constructor's championship anyway?



    I think this is the best compromise FIA could make, and they knew it. This gives McLaren a slap on the wrist but they're still be able to continue in F1. If FIA had either stripped the drivers points or excluded McLaren for the 2008 season as well, McLaren would have withdrawn from F1 and F1 would be destroyed as a sport (from a spectator point of view).

    So all in all, I think this was the best outcome.


    Quote:
    Besides, exactly what did McLaren steal from Ferrari? I dont get this.



    About 1 second

    Sep 14, 2007 1:26:10 PM

    mp
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    During today's TV broadcast, they mentioned something about Alonso being involved in this. Hard to believe he would have tried to blackmail McLaren (get rid of Hamilton) in return for silence.

    We shall soon find out the truth.

    Sep 14, 2007 1:49:49 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: mp

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    I was simply stunned into shocked silence when I heard the outcome of the proceedings yesterday evening on the news bulletins. I still can't quite bring myself to believe what is actually happening here. I can't quite get my head round what has happened. It is bewildering and surreal to watch the media circus reporting on how events have unfolded.

    All I know is that Mr Coughlin possessed the confidential information on his computer at his home. Has it actually been proven that McLaren USED this data in some way?

    The fine is drastic. US$100 million is mighty big for anyone to have to pay. Having all your Constructor's points taken away with no possibility of earning any more points this season is extremely severe. Can McLaren survive this? Will F1 survive this?

    Clearly from their punishment, the FIA believes McLaren DID use the data. What proof did they have of this? Have they taken a 2007 McLaren car apart piece by piece?

    AFAIK the 'new evidence' which Ferrari claim came to light were some emails from the McLaren drivers. What could those emails have said that made them so pivotal in the fines being imposed after McLaren has initially escaped censure when the FIA first decided on this matter?

    How did the FIA think the world would perceive written testimony from the drivers in return for immunity from punishment? Surely they would realise that people would disapprove. IF the team acted wrongly, the WHOLE team INCLUDING the drivers should have been punished.

    I love both McLaren AND Ferrari but all these events have led to the worst day in F1's history. Eliminate your oppponent in a court hearing not on the track. Nice one Todt. This is indeed a day of abject tragedy in the sport I love.

    Sep 14, 2007 3:07:32 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Holy cr*p. Have you guys read this????

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6995240.stm

    It explains in brief the email correspondence between Pedro De La Rosa and Alonso regarding the information leaked from Nigel Stepney to Mike Coughlan. Holy sh*t. This is dynamite.

    Sep 14, 2007 3:12:37 PM

    temm
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:

    I love both McLaren AND Ferrari but all these events have led to the worst day in F1's history. Eliminate your oppponent in a court hearing not on the track. Nice one Todt. This is indeed a day of abject tragedy in the sport I love.



    Quote:

    Holy cr*p. Have you guys read this????

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6995240.stm

    It explains in brief the email correspondence between Pedro De La Rosa and Alonso regarding the information leaked from Nigel Stepney to Mike Coughlan. Holy sh*t. This is dynamite.




    And you still think this Jean Todts fault

    Sep 14, 2007 3:14:21 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Here's an ITV F1 link to the full FIA report:

    http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=40662

    Sep 14, 2007 3:17:51 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    @temm: man, I take back any insinuation about Jean Todt unconditionally. I formed my view based on McLaren's previous testimony at the first 'hearing'. Now that the emails have actually surfaced, they utterly implode what Ron Dennis has been arguing all along.

    McLaren have let themselves and all their fans down. Shame on them. They cheated not just once but repeatedly.

    Sep 14, 2007 3:27:42 PM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    I should add that it seems Pedro De La Rosa and Fernando Alonso have at least been aware of, and possibly integrally involved in, the actual use of the Ferrari data during McLaren's development and testing programme.

    Okay, the drivers' testimony enabled the FIA to catch the bigger fish, namely McLaren itself, but surely they deserve some form of censure. Total immunity due to their cooperation with the investigation is gut-wrenching to bear. They are equally culpable in my eyes.

    Sep 14, 2007 3:41:38 PM

    cgt
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    I guess this is where Alonso got some of those 'six tenths' from!

    Sep 14, 2007 3:48:11 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I should add that it seems Pedro De La Rosa and Fernando Alonso have at least been aware of, and possibly integrally involved in, the actual use of the Ferrari data during McLaren's development and testing programme.

    Okay, the drivers' testimony enabled the FIA to catch the bigger fish, namely McLaren itself, but surely they deserve some form of censure. Total immunity due to their cooperation with the investigation is gut-wrenching to bear. They are equally culpable in my eyes.



    Based on the above summary it would be a good idea to exclude Alonso from the Championship. He - as it seems - took an active role in all this. He should be punished

    Sep 14, 2007 3:53:50 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Do you truly belive that Hamilton did not know anything?

    Sep 14, 2007 4:00:34 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Do you truly belive that Hamilton did not know anything?



    Don't know. However, these emails seem to prove that Alonso was personally involved

    Sep 14, 2007 4:28:52 PM

    mp
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Do you truly belive that Hamilton did not know anything?



    Don't know. However, these emails seem to prove that Alonso was personally involved



    Agree!

    At the end of the day, McLaren can still win the Driver's Championship, which is what "really matters".

    Yes, the fine is steep but next year all is well. Not too bad a punishment if you ask me.

    Lately, being a cycling fan has sucked. Now this is spilling over to F1 as well!! May have to stick with tennis?

    Sep 14, 2007 4:39:51 PM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    I should add that it seems Pedro De La Rosa and Fernando Alonso have at least been aware of, and possibly integrally involved in, the actual use of the Ferrari data during McLaren's development and testing programme.





    I fully agree with you, Easy. I just read the full FIA-report. It is obvious to me that Alonso and De la Rosa only co-operated with the FIA after they felt the pressure from the FIA (knowing that they either could save their dirty a.. by serving as chief witnesses or they would have to face the harshest personal consequences if FIA would have evidence of their involvement).

    I'm still unsure whether McLaren's top management has been aware of what has been going on, but of course the personnel involved (including the drivers) form part of the team.

    It is completely beyond me that De la Rosa and Alonso did not show up instantly at the McLaren's top management office to provide a full report about what happened after the engineers started to talk to them about the obviously illegaly received confidential Ferrari data
    Shame on you, Alsonso and De la Rosa
    Also it speaks volumes that Hamilton did not receive any of the stolen information - shows how big the "wall" between the two camps (Alonso/Hamilton) actually is. One even can't rule out that Alonso and "his" engineers intended to gain an advantage over Hamilton by using the Ferrari information only (or primarily) in favour of Alonso.

    This is simply disgusting
    BTW it's kind of funny how amateurish the involved people acted in terms of communication (using their regular mobiles, email accounts etc.). Next time they better ask a real spy pro what to do

    Sep 14, 2007 4:43:47 PM

    Lars997M
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Holy cr*p. Have you guys read this????

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/6995240.stm

    It explains in brief the email correspondence between Pedro De La Rosa and Alonso regarding the information leaked from Nigel Stepney to Mike Coughlan. Holy sh*t. This is dynamite.



    If this is true, de la Rosa and Alonso should be banned from the F1 immediatley!

    I mean - thats all about Sports. Whats going on at the Tour de France now reached the F1. This completly sucks.

    To be honest - I didnt watch the F1 any more frequently since a while. It got boring anyway. No freaking accidents, no takeover manoveurs, either Ferrari or Mc Laren in the Top Position. Boring!

    Time to found finally a new challenge. Get out of this EccelstoneMani and get a fair, interesting challenge. With real fuel, real V10 engines, lots of powers, breath taking takeovers and the same glamour than the F1!

    Sep 14, 2007 4:48:12 PM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: Lars997M

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    Quote:
    Lars997 said:
    If this is true, de la Rosa and Alonso should be banned from the F1 immediatley!





    For me the current F1-season is over now. Can't stand the idea of watching Alonso waving from the podium yet alone winning the drivers' championship

    Sep 14, 2007 5:23:42 PM

    Modrocket_stereo
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    this is some nuts findings...

    Sep 14, 2007 5:32:25 PM

    Modrocket_stereo
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    Reply to: Modrocket_stereo

    Re: McLaren excluded from F1 in 2007 2008 ???

    I've been getting most of my impressions from the Crash.net site
     
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