Crown

Boxster Coupe GTS:

AP911:

https://electrek.co/2017/12/06/jaguar-ipace-all-electric-prototype-fleet/

Coming next year. More than 200 prototypes built and being tested.

Indeed, Jaguar seems quite keen on development miles...

In the development process, some 200 prototypes have been driven for more than 1.5 million miles. The project has been worked on by more than 500 engineers over four years"

Link: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-show/jaguar-i-pace-development-course-march-2018-launch

...unlike Tesla! 

Exactly. Unlike Tesla, Jaguar is taking no shortcuts. 

noone1:

So buy the puts and makes millions... I mean, you're convinced there is less value 

You’ll never know the positions in the market I take. 

What is unlike Tesla?

Guys, I give a rat's ass about Tesla. Let their stock rise a little bit further, so I can sell it and buy me another nice watch and after me, the flood...as we have a saying in German. 😂😎

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Elon has a great idea, he created Tesla.

Tesla has a great idea, made the model S that puts it on the map, then come Model X, a couple boutique models that can sell for their capacity.

Elon then has another great idea, electric car for the masses, in volumes that the company can't even imagine. 

It's alright, Wall Street bought the idea and gave them billions after billions to execute.

Tesla wasn't sure how to proceed, hence the hand made cars instead of machine built mass production.

Elon speaks to prop up the stock price, gave the press a couple automobiles that had promises that cannot be accomplished to deflect his company's failures. The press are stupid and just listen and write without thinking. (this part reminds me of Enron)

Tesla has unreal valuation, almost like Wall Street has priced in whatever the eventual company can and will ever be worth in the future if it can do everything Elon promised, in the present.

Elon had a great track record, masses don't have any excuses to doubt him no matter what.

For the last couple years, Tesla has the quasi monopoly on electric cars, but the will change, VERY SOON.

It has no experiences in making mass market cars, while EVERY SINGLE COMPETITORS has been doing such a thing for the longest time. Can it deliver it's promises on the Model 3, which it had already failed miserably?

IMO, going head on against the mainstream car maker is a mistake, Tesla simply doesn't have the amount of ammunition needed. It's gonna be like North Korea launching a single nuke to Hawaii or something, and in return, USA and the whole world launch a couple hundred thousand nukes at North Korea. There is no win.

The Model S was the only nice electric car around for the time being but soon many more will be coming onto the market and every single one of them will be better.

The Model X is the only electric minivan, will still be for the longest time. Closest competitor will be the hybrid Chrysler Pacifica, but that one is not full electric and doesn't have the performance of the Model X, it's place in the market is VERY save.

For Model 3, that will be a hyper competitive segment, and other car makers can do scotch earth and price Tesla's Model 3 to extinction. Bad mistake on Elon.

Tesla Roadster will be a nice niche product, 1/4 million dollars toy, There will be enough people in the whole world to buy perhaps a couple thousands of them to play with, maybe max 4000 over it's lifetime. That's about it. 

The tractor trailer however IS THE GAME CHANGER Tesla has always been talking about. There are ZERO competitions, and no one are even close to thinking about doing something like that. It should succeed, Cost and environmental impact are on it's side.

And they should forget about consumer market, and focus on commercial one. In any given place on Earth, the most polluted automobiles are commercial ones, taxis, trucks. Imagine the whole world are rid of gasoline burning taxis, trucks. The air all around us will be so much cleaner. Probably a million times better than doing consumer cars in electric only. Hell, cars have a tiny engine compared to trucks, and they do a lot less miles per year than any commercial cars also, that's where the solution comes from.

The fairytale story continues though.

Will Tesla ended up as a Enron, or will it be a GM or something?

MKSGR:

Leawood911:

I’m with RC. I also take a small percentage (50k) and use it to aggressively day trade (scalp is a better term) one or two stocks at a time.  I average around $250 per day. Last two days I made more than $1000 each day.  If the stock slips it hits my stop loss and I get back in when it turns around. I have not had a losing day in months. It depends also on your trading platform. I use TradeStation.  Love it. 

The ability to consistenly outperform the market with strategies you or RC describe (using non-professional IT) would indicate highly inefficient capital markets. However, this would be in sharp contrast with nearly all scientific research in this field...

This apparent discrepancy usually stems from the use of statistically inadequate time periods („this year“ etc.). Over a longer periods of time losses will typically compensate historical gains.

But, of course, speculation can still be fun.

 

100% agree. In my case my hobby is to be in the market for minutes. All my trades are set up in advance and I take tiny gains several times a day. Given the amount at stake it makes for surprising income.  I work with big data and financial systems so the numbers are all I watch.  TradeStation is a great platform. 

Leawood911:

100% agree. In my case my hobby is to be in the market for minutes. All my trades are set up in advance and I take tiny gains several times a day. Given the amount at stake it makes for surprising income.  I work with big data and financial systems so the numbers are all I watch.  TradeStation is a great platform. 

"Cos I don't care too -- much for money -- and money can't buy me (a GT Porsche allocation)"  *

*apologies to the Beatles 

2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

Whoopsy:

Elon has a great idea, he created Tesla.

Tesla has a great idea, made the model S that puts it on the map, then come Model X, a couple boutique models that can sell for their capacity.

Elon then has another great idea, electric car for the masses, in volumes that the company can't even imagine. 

It's alright, Wall Street bought the idea and gave them billions after billions to execute.

Tesla wasn't sure how to proceed, hence the hand made cars instead of machine built mass production.

Elon speaks to prop up the stock price, gave the press a couple automobiles that had promises that cannot be accomplished to deflect his company's failures. The press are stupid and just listen and write without thinking. (this part reminds me of Enron)

Tesla has unreal valuation, almost like Wall Street has priced in whatever the eventual company can and will ever be worth in the future if it can do everything Elon promised, in the present.

Elon had a great track record, masses don't have any excuses to doubt him no matter what.

For the last couple years, Tesla has the quasi monopoly on electric cars, but the will change, VERY SOON.

It has no experiences in making mass market cars, while EVERY SINGLE COMPETITORS has been doing such a thing for the longest time. Can it deliver it's promises on the Model 3, which it had already failed miserably?

IMO, going head on against the mainstream car maker is a mistake, Tesla simply doesn't have the amount of ammunition needed. It's gonna be like North Korea launching a single nuke to Hawaii or something, and in return, USA and the whole world launch a couple hundred thousand nukes at North Korea. There is no win.

The Model S was the only nice electric car around for the time being but soon many more will be coming onto the market and every single one of them will be better.

The Model X is the only electric minivan, will still be for the longest time. Closest competitor will be the hybrid Chrysler Pacifica, but that one is not full electric and doesn't have the performance of the Model X, it's place in the market is VERY save.

For Model 3, that will be a hyper competitive segment, and other car makers can do scotch earth and price Tesla's Model 3 to extinction. Bad mistake on Elon.

Tesla Roadster will be a nice niche product, 1/4 million dollars toy, There will be enough people in the whole world to buy perhaps a couple thousands of them to play with, maybe max 4000 over it's lifetime. That's about it. 

The tractor trailer however IS THE GAME CHANGER Tesla has always been talking about. There are ZERO competitions, and no one are even close to thinking about doing something like that. It should succeed, Cost and environmental impact are on it's side.

And they should forget about consumer market, and focus on commercial one. In any given place on Earth, the most polluted automobiles are commercial ones, taxis, trucks. Imagine the whole world are rid of gasoline burning taxis, trucks. The air all around us will be so much cleaner. Probably a million times better than doing consumer cars in electric only. Hell, cars have a tiny engine compared to trucks, and they do a lot less miles per year than any commercial cars also, that's where the solution comes from.

The fairytale story continues though.

Will Tesla ended up as a Enron, or will it be a GM or something?

 

 

Musk did not create Tesla.  He became a major investor after the company was founded by four individuals with J. B. Staubel being the only founder left.  Teppening and Eberhard have since founded another EV company that was recently acquired by a Chinese automaker.  Production is said to start within a year.  However, one must remember that the core technologies and inspiration of Tesla was AC Propulsion, the same company that assisted General Motors in developing the EV-1.  Musk just adds the LSD and pot fueled prattle.

This evening, interestingly, I spotted a new Model 3 in Chicago’s Loop.  High probability that it is owned by someone in one the fellow PE firms that invested early one-Portage or Valor. 

It sounds like Tesla's production issues are expected to continue, partly due to ongoing problems at the Gigafactory... 

"Problem with Gigafactory Leads to Global Shortage of Cylindrical Batteries"

(6 December 2017)

Delay in production from Gigafactory, which is Tesla’s battery manufacturing facility, is leading to global shortage of cylindrical batteries. As Panasonic has given most of its supplies in Japan to Tesla, many small and large companies that are in need for cylindrical batteries are knocking on doors of Samsung SDI, LG Chemicals, and Murata (previously Sony).

However due to limited output, these companies are helpless with increased demands. As a result, many global IT, non-IT, electric vehicle, and home appliance companies have been left with no batteries for many months.

According to industries on the 5th, there is an extreme shortage of cylindrical batteries globally. Samsung SDI, LG Chemicals, Panasonic, and Murata are currently producing more than 80% of global cylindrical batteries (standards: 18,650, 21,700).

Excluding set manufacturers who already signed off on contracts before 2017, many other companies are having difficulties in making purchase orders and it will not be easy for them to secure additional supplies until the end of the first half of 2018.

“It is impossible to purchase cylindrical batteries within Japan and we were even notified by Panasonic that they are not going to sell cylindrical batteries anymore.” said a representative for a Japanese battery distributor. “It has come to a point where we cannot even purchase products from Samsung and LG and even products from Samsung and LG that were produced in China.”

Number of demands for cylindrical batteries has recently increased from markets such as electric vehicles, power tools, electric bicycles, cordless cleaners, e-cigarettes, and power banks.

<Tesla’s battery manufacturing facility called ‘Gigafactory’ located in Nevada >

As there was a serious problem with operation of Gigafactory, Panasonic had to bring its supplies from Japan in order to patch up this problem. Panasonic is even supplying its batteries that are produced in Japan to Tesla for its electric vehicles.

According to industries, Gigafactory has not had normal operation for many months due to unstable supply of power and extreme shortage of manpower. Since a battery (100kWh) used for single Tesla ‘Model S’ can be used to produce 200 electric bicycles, previous customers are taking significant blows.

“We have received more inquiries about our products from Japanese and global set manufacturers.” said a representative for a battery manufacturer. “Because cylindrical battery markets are expanding towards markets for power tools, electric vehicles, and e-cigarettes, it will not to supply these batteries until the end of the first half of 2018.”

Although Tesla initially planned to construct Gigafactory in the middle of desert in Nevada and supply power through its own solar power generators, it is difficult for Tesla to have normal operation with Gigafactory due to reasons such as uneven amount of generation of new regeneration energy. It is also facing shortage of manpower due to accessibility of its Gigafactory.

Link: http://english.etnews.com/20171206200001

...importing Panasonic batteries manufactured in Japan will negatively impact gross margins in Q4 and some investors and equity analysts will question whether Tesla can achieve positive net profit margins on Model 3 sales in 2018? 

If the Gigafactory strategy is not working and the Model 3 order backlog cannot be converted into positive casflow, there is the prospect of a credit rating downgrade and liquidity squeeze -- which would require a significant new capital raise (at a discount) on the back of poor operating and financial results... 

...caveat emptor! 

The claimed issue re. shortages of employees at the G-factory is very interesting; it is in a rural location in a lightly populated state that I believe still has high employment, in part due to many large gold mining operations.  Why Nevada?  Because Tesla conducted a very aggressive search for the state with the best tax and other concessions... seems that availability of employees was not so carefully researched.    

2017 Range Rover Sport S/C,  2009 Porsche 911S

4trac:

The claimed issue re. shortages of employees at the G-factory is very interesting; it is in a rural location in a lightly populated state that I believe still has high employment, in part due to many large gold mining operations.  Why Nevada?  Because Tesla conducted a very aggressive search for the state with the best tax and other concessions... seems that availability of employees was not so carefully researched.    

Glassdoor is currently showing Tesla has around 2,000 vacancies listed, including Reliability Engineers...  

Boxster Coupe GTS:

4trac:

The claimed issue re. shortages of employees at the G-factory is very interesting; it is in a rural location in a lightly populated state that I believe still has high employment, in part due to many large gold mining operations.  Why Nevada?  Because Tesla conducted a very aggressive search for the state with the best tax and other concessions... seems that availability of employees was not so carefully researched.    

Glassdoor is currently showing Tesla has around 2,000 vacancies listed, including Reliability Engineers...  

Many places in the States are facing labor shortages as the economy swings into overdrive.  Toyota and Mazda bypassed Indiana for a new plant because of the tight labor market.  Illinois, the neighboring state, was rejected because of its poor fiscal policy.  Both the state of Illinois and its major city, Chicago, are facing bankruptcy.  

And exactly why don’t you think the other new EV manufacturers won't have the same issue? Tesla has first mover advantage. The way I see it they are squeezing some parts needed for batteries already, where are the others going to get them?

To be honest ramp up of Model 3 seems hell, they say it themselves. But it is not like other manufacturers aren’t doing it already so Tesla will get it eventually. I think one of their issues is that they are trying to do it even better and more efficiently than others. Once the hump is passed, they will do fine.

And for the record I have no position in TSLA nor I would want one if I could. People underestimate the risks involved in being long or short the stock, same as BTC.

Any idea of the hp this car has???? And not the base model any rumors???? Damn it must be fast as nothing on the planet.....

993 c2

SciFrog:

And exactly why don’t you think the other new EV manufacturers won't have the same issue? Tesla has first mover advantage. The way I see it they are squeezing some parts needed for batteries already, where are the others going to get them?

To be honest ramp up of Model 3 seems hell, they say it themselves. But it is not like other manufacturers aren’t doing it already so Tesla will get it eventually. I think one of their issues is that they are trying to do it even better and more efficiently than others. Once the hump is passed, they will do fine.

And for the record I have no position in TSLA nor I would want one if I could. People underestimate the risks involved in being long or short the stock, same as BTC.

What does any of your “points” have to do with production capacity?  There are physical constraints on production levels  that other manufacturers do not face since Tesla has only one final assembly hall.  Other manufacturers actually have excess capacity available for EV production.  

One really doubts that you, along with many others making rash statements in support of Tesla manufacturing, have ever set foot on a factory floor let know anything about car making.  

In theory Tesla has the capacity to do what they need for the time being. If they need a new factory, they'll build one when it becomes needed.

noone1:

In theory Tesla has the capacity to do what they need for the time being. If they need a new factory, they'll build one when it becomes needed.

In theory!?!  What about in reality?   Past NUMMI production volumes are meaningless comparisons to the Tesla production system.  

Well, instead of guessing you can just wait 6 months and you'll find out the reality. 

SciFrog:

And exactly why don’t you think the other new EV manufacturers won't have the same issue? Tesla has first mover advantage. The way I see it they are squeezing some parts needed for batteries already, where are the others going to get them?

To be honest ramp up of Model 3 seems hell, they say it themselves. But it is not like other manufacturers aren’t doing it already so Tesla will get it eventually. I think one of their issues is that they are trying to do it even better and more efficiently than others. Once the hump is passed, they will do fine.

And for the record I have no position in TSLA nor I would want one if I could. People underestimate the risks involved in being long or short the stock, same as BTC.

The other makers actually have the resources to built a lot of prototypes and do testing before putting something on the market for one. Porsche had 25 prototypes of the 918 running everywhere on the face of the Earth, plus quite few more non running one just to perfect the manufacturing process and fit and finish, oh, they also have another 15 or so post-production prototypes running right now for events and further testing and debugging. That for a limited production car, they have plenty more prototypes for testing for regular production cars. Did Tesla even ran 30 Model 3 prototypes?

The other car makers also have major experiences in sourcing parts for mass production process, getting suppliers ready and up to speed, Tesla wasn't doing that for Model 3. The Model S and Model X are mostly done in house, the price point means Tesla doesn't have to outsource much, Model 3 is a completely different game, they need cheap parts and a lot of them, which Tesla cannot do itself economically.

The 'hump' Elon had been talking about was to get suppliers lined with with the price they wanted and quantity they wanted. They still can't manage to secure a good enough contract from suppliers. GM on the other hand had no problem like that with the Bolt cause they can lump in contracts from their other production cars and make it economically feasible for all parties involved. 

How about we wait until Tesla declares bankruptcy before comparing them to GM 

noone1:

How about we wait until Tesla declares bankruptcy before comparing them to GM 

General Motors was restructured using Section 363 of the bankruptcy code by the previous Administration because of large liabilities associated with its retiree pension and healthcare plans coupled with tight credit markets.  If Tesla files for bankruptcy it would be Chapter 11 restructuring because it didn’t have the cash flow to service its debt.  Totally different reasons between the two automakers.   

noone1:

How about we wait until Tesla declares bankruptcy before comparing them to GM 

I don't actually see Tesla will go bankrupt, contrary to what you guys think I might think.

There are enough fanboys of them to keep buying them.

Plus, their electric truck just got another order for 40 of them by Anheuser-Busch. 

Electric trucks by Tesla makes much more sense. The trucking industry will be their calling card, it's a much much bigger market with better profit margin.

Hell they can do a subscription model for their charging network. Trucks need mandatory stops, Tesla can do full service truck stops/charging stations for the trucks with showers, diners, and whatever truck stop has. Truckers will be more incline to stop at a truck stop/charging station than regular consumers. Perfect combo if you ask me. 

Except the Tesla truck charging capacity is vaporware for now. Equivalent to the power needed by 3,000 homes... The Model 3 is real, they just can't produce it in large number... Yet...

GM was bailed out by the government. Tesla was subsidized by zero emissions credit, lets call that one even 

Honestly, I am a finance guy too, I understand all that's being written about the Tesla numbers above. But reason does not apply there, shorts could still loose their shirts as they have so far. Good luck to anyone with a position out there, because it will end up in tears for some as stop losses get triggered before they are proven right or wrong.

Whoopsy:

noone1:

How about we wait until Tesla declares bankruptcy before comparing them to GM 

 

I don't actually see Tesla will go bankrupt, contrary to what you guys think I might think.

There are enough fanboys of them to keep buying them.

Plus, their electric truck just got another order for 40 of them by Anheuser-Busch. 

Electric trucks by Tesla makes much more sense. The trucking industry will be their calling card, it's a much much bigger market with better profit margin.

Hell they can do a subscription model for their charging network. Trucks need mandatory stops, Tesla can do full service truck stops/charging stations for the trucks with showers, diners, and whatever truck stop has. Truckers will be more incline to stop at a truck stop/charging station than regular consumers. Perfect combo if you ask me. 

 

 Sounds pretty good if you ask me. Also maybe electric buses for commuter traffic.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Whoopsy:

noone1:

How about we wait until Tesla declares bankruptcy before comparing them to GM 

 

I don't actually see Tesla will go bankrupt, contrary to what you guys think I might think.

There are enough fanboys of them to keep buying them.

Plus, their electric truck just got another order for 40 of them by Anheuser-Busch. 

Electric trucks by Tesla makes much more sense. The trucking industry will be their calling card, it's a much much bigger market with better profit margin.

Hell they can do a subscription model for their charging network. Trucks need mandatory stops, Tesla can do full service truck stops/charging stations for the trucks with showers, diners, and whatever truck stop has. Truckers will be more incline to stop at a truck stop/charging station than regular consumers. Perfect combo if you ask me. 

 

 Sounds pretty good if you ask me. Also maybe electric buses for commuter traffic.

Electric commuter buses already exist - https://www.proterra.com/.  

CGX car nut:

RC:

Whoopsy:

noone1:

How about we wait until Tesla declares bankruptcy before comparing them to GM 

 

I don't actually see Tesla will go bankrupt, contrary to what you guys think I might think.

There are enough fanboys of them to keep buying them.

Plus, their electric truck just got another order for 40 of them by Anheuser-Busch. 

Electric trucks by Tesla makes much more sense. The trucking industry will be their calling card, it's a much much bigger market with better profit margin.

Hell they can do a subscription model for their charging network. Trucks need mandatory stops, Tesla can do full service truck stops/charging stations for the trucks with showers, diners, and whatever truck stop has. Truckers will be more incline to stop at a truck stop/charging station than regular consumers. Perfect combo if you ask me. 

 

 Sounds pretty good if you ask me. Also maybe electric buses for commuter traffic.

Electric commuter buses already exist - https://www.proterra.com/.  

I know they exist but Tesla could definitely wipe out the competition...(or put them under huge pressure).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

CGX car nut:

RC:

Whoopsy:

noone1:

How about we wait until Tesla declares bankruptcy before comparing them to GM 

 

I don't actually see Tesla will go bankrupt, contrary to what you guys think I might think.

There are enough fanboys of them to keep buying them.

Plus, their electric truck just got another order for 40 of them by Anheuser-Busch. 

Electric trucks by Tesla makes much more sense. The trucking industry will be their calling card, it's a much much bigger market with better profit margin.

Hell they can do a subscription model for their charging network. Trucks need mandatory stops, Tesla can do full service truck stops/charging stations for the trucks with showers, diners, and whatever truck stop has. Truckers will be more incline to stop at a truck stop/charging station than regular consumers. Perfect combo if you ask me. 

 

 Sounds pretty good if you ask me. Also maybe electric buses for commuter traffic.

Electric commuter buses already exist - https://www.proterra.com/.  

I know they exist but Tesla could definitely wipe out the competition...(or put them under huge pressure).

Proterra makes a good product that is certified as meeting all the U.S. commercial bus standards for durability.  It will be years before Tesla can develop such a product, especially in light of its cash usage.  Tesla has fewer competitive advantages than many realize.

 Tesla has a worthy competitor in Cummins for electric trucks. 

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/08/ahead-of-tesla-semis-cummins-shows-off-all-electric-powertrain-concept/

2016 Porsche 991 Carrera GTS  Black with AeroKit Cup Package,  2017 Porsche Cayenne Platinum  Purpurite Metallic, New York

Quality: https://jalopnik.com/tesla-owner-resorts-to-tweeting-at-elon-when-his-door-h-1821128355

CGX car nut:

Quality: https://jalopnik.com/tesla-owner-resorts-to-tweeting-at-elon-when-his-door-h-1821128355

Have we ever witnessed something that engage people as much as Tesla does in the car industry? One guy has a problem with the auto presenting door handles and it creates headlines that he tweet to Elon. LOL.

Try and tweet Blume about a oil leak or a failed charge port on the new Panamera E-hybrid and see what headlines we will see in the news - ZERO  

You guys that continue to dig out sources of negative press against Tesla must really care a lot by some reason.