Crown

Tesla cut their prices again. Guess they are getting ready for competition.

You can now lease a model 3 performance for $600 per month and $3500 down........lot of performance for so little money. 

Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2017 Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2020 Porsche Mission E on order

Tesla Is "Coolest" Automaker, Says Google

https://insideevs.com/news/333644/tesla-is-coolest-automaker-says-google/

According to the survey results, Tesla beat BMW to be the "coolest" automotive brand in the world. Even more impressive, among teens (13-17) and millennials (18-24), Tesla was ranked amongst the "coolest" of all brands globally. The only brands ahead of Tesla were Google (hmm...), Netflix, Youtube and Amazon.

 there’s a big world out there outside of the tiny group of 911 owners 

The spoiler of the X is now fixed, it used to retract.

I don't care people calling the X a minivan, after all, you call it whatever you want. It is not a SUV nor a minivan, It is a large crossover but whatever. What I do care about is that some people once they labeled it a minivan they instantly  denigrate it like one for the sole purpose of trashing a revolutionary cool car that does not suit them for some personal agenda. It has NONE of the stigmas of the minivan category so stop bashing it like one  I deeply hate minivans and will never own one because of all the stigmas they represent. That’s why like many I owned large Germans/luxury SUVs, but that was until something much better (for my needs) came up.

And you still ended up with a minivan. A electric minivan. 

Whoopsy:

And you still ended up with a minivan. A electric minivan. 

I see his point. The car is very usable with its interior space and everything. In the end it is a question of usability vs design. The Taycan will look very cool but is much smaller, of course.

SciFrog:

Tesla Is "Coolest" Automaker, Says Google

https://insideevs.com/news/333644/tesla-is-coolest-automaker-says-google/

According to the survey results, Tesla beat BMW to be the "coolest" automotive brand in the world. Even more impressive, among teens (13-17) and millennials (18-24), Tesla was ranked amongst the "coolest" of all brands globally. The only brands ahead of Tesla were Google (hmm...), Netflix, Youtube and Amazon.

As if most teens and millennials are cool nowadays...   They all dress the same, obligatory piercing and tattoo at some specific location on their body, they often even talk the same, so not really a benchmark for coolness. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

can't agree with you moore...the kids todayt are all but cool.....hahaha but I got why tesla is cool....because it have focused on acceleration.....immagine the tesla doing 0-100 in 10 sec...uncool directly..even if it had all the auto pilot etc....just a good looking prius.

But since it outperform every prodcution car in acceleration...just this is the cool part....the cool thing that you can  do 0-100 in 2,7 while in the other hyper sport cars you can do it 2 times with launch control...and it will just kill transmission and clutch.....sad but this is the fact. When i think about super cars, i think them loud hard to drive..with a lot of drama..because they can delivery performance that other cars can not...immagine a countach a 930 turbo...( my dream cars even today)...at that time they where the fastest....today the hyper sport cars ( just in terms of acceleration) are not the fastest...and this bothers me....( ok with all the rest handling..lap time etc...I agree with all of that) but when I have the top sport car it piss me off that an normal EV outperform me!!!!

993 c2

Tesla has no respect for its own clients, it's beyond believe. Just checked prices in Belgium and all of them got reduced by a significant margin as in the US. Tesla is a company with no brains. It's gonna die quickly IMHO. Who would want to F**** his own clients anyway ? It's just bad business. No fleet manager would ever consider dealing with such a brand.  

I'm also happy to see all the german brands catching up .. so Tesla can just be erased from this planet all together.

SciFrog:

. 2.7s for a large 7 seater daily driver for less money than ever. That is just insane, faster in straight line and way cheaper than the top model Taycan will be.

 

What is the 0-200kph spec for the Model X, BTW? The Taycan turbo will be approx. 9.4s 

MKSGR:

SciFrog:

. 2.7s for a large 7 seater daily driver for less money than ever. That is just insane, faster in straight line and way cheaper than the top model Taycan will be.

 

What is the 0-200kph spec for the Model X, BTW? The Taycan turbo will be approx. 9.4s 

Based on this video 0-200 for the Tesla Model X should be around 20s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwiG2-ZI_uo

That's what I meant. Tesla uses one figure (0-60) to impress people. But when you look behind the scene you realize the truth... 

Also, here one can see what happens beyond 200kph.... Nothing... The car hardly accelerates but will certainly overheat quickly (my speculation...):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0-qQegmVOw

Now some buyers might argue that they don't need speeds above 60mph. In this case just look at other US cars: they cannot go faster and for that reason they are engineered for a top speed of 60mph. That has been the problem for decades and you get the same problem if you buy a Tesla. These cars are just compromises for people who (i) drive straight all day long, (ii) don't go faster than 70mph.  Crappy technology.

For this use case everything might be fine. But one should not mistake these products for being proper cars like the Taycan will be. You get what you pay for. At least Tesla prices after several price cuts are now much lower 

MKSGR:

MKSGR:

SciFrog:

. 2.7s for a large 7 seater daily driver for less money than ever. That is just insane, faster in straight line and way cheaper than the top model Taycan will be.

 

What is the 0-200kph spec for the Model X, BTW? The Taycan turbo will be approx. 9.4s 

Based on this video 0-200 for the Tesla Model X should be around 20s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwiG2-ZI_uo

That's what I meant. Tesla uses one figure (0-60) to impress people. But when you look behind the scene you realize the truth... 

You can at least compare a 2020 Taycan (which doesn't exist yet) with a Tesla on the road now... You keep on dragging up old videos with cars that Tesla discontinued 3 years back...

Model X Performance does 0-200km/h around 11.5 sec. Model S Performance in just above 10 sek. 10.2 or there about.

Both Model X and S will still kill the Taycan in utility and from stand still which is quite ironic. Over 150km/h the Taycan is faster but for most people this is completely irrelevant  

lukestern:

 

Model X Performance does 0-200km/h around 11.5 sec. Model S Performance in just above 10 sek. 10.2 or there about.

 

There seems no proof of this on the Internet (videos, magazine tests)  Do you know some adequate links on the Internet we could use?

MKSGR:

lukestern:

 

Model X Performance does 0-200km/h around 11.5 sec. Model S Performance in just above 10 sek. 10.2 or there about.

 

There seems no proof of this on the Internet (videos, magazine tests)  Do you know some adequate links on the Internet we could use?

Sure!

Here is a Model X P with a 1/4-mile time in 11.21. The trap-speed at the finish line @121.17mph = 195km/h. So add a few tenths to reach 200km/h. It will for sure be sub 12 secs to 200km/h.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j5o4zHNaEg&t=737s

Here is a Model S P doing the 1/4-mile in 10.53 with a trap-speed at the finish line @125.95 = 202.7km/h. So to 200km/h it should be a little faster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymsZ2Q3oUo

The new drivetrain with new motors and improve adaptive suspension was just recently introduced (production started in April) so not many real tests out there, but it seems like they improved the top end punch a bit even though all the EV's fall off above 150km/h. The Taycan will probably be the first EV that with have higher punch at faster speeds due to the 2-speed transmission.

lukestern:

MKSGR:

lukestern:

 

Model X Performance does 0-200km/h around 11.5 sec. Model S Performance in just above 10 sek. 10.2 or there about.

 

There seems no proof of this on the Internet (videos, magazine tests)  Do you know some adequate links on the Internet we could use?

Sure!

Here is a Model X P with a 1/4-mile time in 11.21. The trap-speed at the finish line @121.17mph = 195km/h. So add a few tenths to reach 200km/h. It will for sure be sub 12 secs to 200km/h.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j5o4zHNaEg&t=737s

Here is a Model S P doing the 1/4-mile in 10.53 with a trap-speed at the finish line @125.95 = 202.7km/h. So to 200km/h it should be a little faster:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymsZ2Q3oUo

The new drivetrain with new motors and improve adaptive suspension was just recently introduced (production started in April) so not many real tests out there, but it seems like they improved the top end punch a bit even though all the EV's fall off above 150km/h. The Taycan will probably be the first EV that with have higher punch at faster speeds due to the 2-speed transmission.

Many thanks 

MKSGR:

Also, here one can see what happens beyond 200kph.... Nothing... The car hardly accelerates but will certainly overheat quickly (my speculation...):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0-qQegmVOw

Now some buyers might argue that they don't need speeds above 60mph. In this case just look at other US cars: they cannot go faster and for that reason they are engineered for a top speed of 60mph. That has been the problem for decades and you get the same problem if you buy a Tesla. These cars are just compromises for people who (i) drive straight all day long, (ii) don't go faster than 70mph.  Crappy technology.

For this use case everything might be fine. But one should not mistake these products for being proper cars like the Taycan will be. You get what you pay for. At least Tesla prices after several price cuts are now much lower 

Who cares what happens after 90mph anyway? Except Germany, you will loose your licence doing so, I have not driven above that speed in the USA for over a decade. Your arguments are only valid in Germany. Do you know what the range of an ETron, a German car, will be on the German highways at high speed

Whoopsy:

And you still ended up with a minivan. A electric minivan. 

At least it is not a slow golf cart (this is not denigrating, you called it that yourself) that looks like an SUV but cannot go off-road and does not have enough range to get me to work in the winter, with a stale software which is already obsolete and no advanced self driving features, however nice it is inside 

Prediction: you will get bored and sell it within a year or it will be collecting dust with very few miles by then... Cannot wait for your first real ownership impressions.

And for the record I do think the ETron is also a cool car and applaud the effort for a gen 0.5 EV. It has the interior of a modern Audi and is surely well built but too bad the software and EV tech is 5-7 years behind. I also predict that the depreciation will be epic once batteries degrade and people drive them in winter and while the car stays stale while the EV tech moves at a solid pace. I was wondering why VW is pricing aggressively some of their EV but I might be onto some sort of explanation: they will come out with new models faster that’s their usual 4+3=7 cycle and will force costumers to upgrade faster from their then obsolete previous EV. 

amazon:

Tesla has no respect for its own clients, it's beyond believe. Just checked prices in Belgium and all of them got reduced by a significant margin as in the US. Tesla is a company with no brains. It's gonna die quickly IMHO. Who would want to F**** his own clients anyway ? It's just bad business. No fleet manager would ever consider dealing with such a brand.  

I'm also happy to see all the german brands catching up .. so Tesla can just be erased from this planet all together.

 

Do you complain to Apple or Samsung when a new TV or a new iPhone comes out every year and your old one looses significant value?

Do you complain to your Porsche dealer when last years model sitting on the lot drops by 10% or more or make an option standard (well not Porche, they don’t do that to milk customers) 

Do you complain to your clothes retailer when the same garment goes 50% off later in the year?

Among other things batteries and EV tech gets cheaper as more R&D gets poured into it. Why would the prices not go down over time? Because other manufacturers have been fleecing their costumers for years?

Have you ever wondered why cars keep getting more expensive while productivity goes up every year?

That is just one of the revolutions Tesla has brought to the table. Now do you understand better why the others are afraid?  And why some here have a real agenda to protect very profitable schemes?

Funny enough a very timely insight:

Elon Musk explains why auto industry hasn't caught up with Tesla, says competition has 'no soul'

https://apple.news/AbACoXSdVSDy-2i3qvwqtCg

https://apple.news/AHeJpVVPxQU6cE91P7hDL8A 

SciFrog:

Whoopsy:

And you still ended up with a minivan. A electric minivan. 

At least it is not a slow golf cart (this is not denigrating, you called it that yourself) that looks like an SUV but cannot go off-road and does not have enough range to get me to work in the winter, with a stale software which is already obsolete and no advanced self driving features, however nice it is inside 

Prediction: you will get bored and sell it within a year or it will be collecting dust with very few miles by then... Cannot wait for your first real ownership impressions.

And for the record I do think the ETron is also a cool car and applaud the effort for a gen 0.5 EV. It has the interior of a modern Audi and is surely well built but too bad the software and EV tech is 5-7 years behind. I also predict that the depreciation will be epic once batteries degrade and people drive them in winter and while the car stays stale while the EV tech moves at a solid pace. I was wondering why VW is pricing aggressively some of their EV but I might be onto some sort of explanation: they will come out with new models faster that’s their usual 4+3=7 cycle and will force costumers to upgrade faster from their then obsolete previous EV. 

Yes, the luxury golf cart will be confined for city duties, school runs, grocery runs and stuff. Perhaps golfing too with the big trunk. Shorter range and slower than a Tesla won't be a problem for me. Just about everything else in my garage is faster than a Tesla anyways.

And since I will be leasing it, I won't be stuck with it later down the road 

Quite entertaining review by Tiff and Paul.

Aging Tesla Designs Still Have Spark

https://apple.news/AJr-qusCwR7C0dFd7WacPvg

Cause it's an appliance. You don't need your fridge/washing machine redesigned/refreshed every 4 years. And you won't buy a new appliance every 4 years. 

A Tesla, or any EV for that matters, is an appliance, a tool to get you from point A to point BB ad perhaps back to point A, Nothing more.

People take out their Porsche, Ferrari, Aston, Lamborghini, etc on a sunny Sunday morning to just go for a drive, from point A to pint A via all sorts of different routes, Tesla owners don't do that, they would rather take out their OTHER cars for such a duty.

You Tesla is pretty much like your Sub Zero fridge, you bought it, you are happy with it, you love it, but you won't change it every 3-4 years.

Whoopsy:

Cause it's an appliance. You don't need your fridge/washing machine redesigned/refreshed every 4 years. And you won't buy a new appliance every 4 years. 

A Tesla, or any EV for that matters, is an appliance, a tool to get you from point A to point BB ad perhaps back to point A, Nothing more.

People take out their Porsche, Ferrari, Aston, Lamborghini, etc on a sunny Sunday morning to just go for a drive, from point A to pint A via all sorts of different routes, Tesla owners don't do that, they would rather take out their OTHER cars for such a duty.

You Tesla is pretty much like your Sub Zero fridge, you bought it, you are happy with it, you love it, but you won't change it every 3-4 years.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Btw., not sure this has been already posted: Taycan Turbo S will have 734 hp.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Lamborghini Huracan Performante (2019), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mercedes C63 S AMG Cab (2019), Range Rover Evoque Si4 Black Edition (2019)

Whoopsy:

Cause it's an appliance. You don't need your fridge/washing machine redesigned/refreshed every 4 years. And you won't buy a new appliance every 4 years. 

A Tesla, or any EV for that matters, is an appliance, a tool to get you from point A to point BB ad perhaps back to point A, Nothing more.

People take out their Porsche, Ferrari, Aston, Lamborghini, etc on a sunny Sunday morning to just go for a drive, from point A to pint A via all sorts of different routes, Tesla owners don't do that, they would rather take out their OTHER cars for such a duty.

You Tesla is pretty much like your Sub Zero fridge, you bought it, you are happy with it, you love it, but you won't change it every 3-4 years.

 

 

They are appliances, tools, daily drivers but more the way a phone or a computer are. Because they get better over time as tech evolves. Fridge? You buy it, it cools and you get a new one when it is dead.

ICE daily drivers are tools and appliances too. EV tech has nothing to do with it. Do you think a Toyota Camry creates emotions? It is bland, boring and slow. Gets you from A to B, no more, no less. At least Teslas are cool and modern the same way the ETron and Taycan by pushing the enveloppe.

The Model X is the best daily driver I have ever owned. No more, no less, the same way the RRS, The Cayenne TTS and Macan turbo were before. It is not meant to replace a weekend toy so I do not get your point.

Now if you say the Tesla Roaster is an appliance, I cannot agree with you at least yet. It is not out and no one has driven it. So I will give it the benefit of the doubt. But clearly for some it will surely replace a 911/Lambo/Ferrari or most likely have their own space in the garage in addition to other sport cars IF (big if) it delivers on performance and handling.

What in common between fridges, washer, dryer, toaster ovens, Teslas, and for that matter all EV?

They all needed to be plugged into the wall socket 

Like your Tesla that you say is getting better with every update, did you know Samsung has a fridge with a screen and gets better also with each over the air update also?

A fridge doesn’t need a giant screen. It does not serve a purpose as music player or need to give driving directions and real time traffic on the go, it is stuck in your kitchen and in nice ones people try to hide them as much as possible.

BTW none of these appliances have batteries... they cannot function unplugged. Not sure what analogy you are trying to make, but they all use electricity and so does every car on the road today.

Just for kicks: Appliance:

noun

an instrument, apparatus, or device for a particular purpose or use.

a piece of equipment, usually operated electrically, especially for use in the home or forperformance of domestic chores, as a refrigerator, washing machine, or toaster.

Definition is vague enough to say every car is an appliance, even a sport car (device for a particular purpose or use) and that no car is an appliance (domestic ie in the confines of a house). That should put the appliance semantics to rest. But in the end it is the same as the minivan. You call it whatever you want, but there is a clear intent to tag it as such to blindly denigrate EVs. What real purpose does it serve? Not clear.

On another note the driver window of the X has started to act up because of the heat... That will probably require a service call and the occasion to fix all the other minor issues (panel gap and rattle).

Domestic chores, like daily school run 

I have come to accept that fact already, a EV car is nothing more than an appliance for daily lives. It carries no emotions. I don't get excited when using my electric shaver, same deal. My new Audi will be just another piece of appliance at home.

The Honda Ridgeline is quiet, and it's also just another appliance, a tool so to speak. Same deal with those Camry, Corolla minivans and what not.

I however do get emotionally excited whenever I am in my Cayenne, it makes the right noise. And of course all the other sport cars.

SciFrog:

A fridge doesn’t need a giant screen. It does not serve a purpose as music player or need to give driving directions and real time traffic on the go, it is stuck in your kitchen and in nice ones people try to hide them as much as possible.

BTW none of these appliances have batteries... they cannot function unplugged. Not sure what analogy you are trying to make, but they all use electricity and so does every car on the road today.

Just for kicks: Appliance:

noun

an instrument, apparatus, or device for a particular purpose or use.

a piece of equipment, usually operated electrically, especially for use in the home or forperformance of domestic chores, as a refrigerator, washing machine, or toaster.

Definition is vague enough to say every car is an appliance, even a sport car (device for a particular purpose or use) and that no car is an appliance (domestic ie in the confines of a house). That should put the appliance semantics to rest. But in the end it is the same as the minivan. You call it whatever you want, but there is a clear intent to tag it as such to blindly denigrate EVs. What real purpose does it serve? Not clear.

On another note the driver window of the X has started to act up because of the heat... That will probably require a service call and the occasion to fix all the other minor issues (panel gap and rattle).

...apparently Tesla does indeed operate as an appliance! 

Could come in handy for when going camping 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS