Sep 12, 2007 11:15:27 AM
- PorSchelover1
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 - Turbo
Language: English
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Sep 12, 2007 12:23:12 PM
- KresoF1
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Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I can already tell you some little thing... Sport Auto Horst von Saurma will achive 7.3Xmin on the Ring without any problem. Issue 1/2008 or 2/2008...
That sounds very promising
Looks like the car might be worth buying... However, I have taken the decision to not order any Porsche before having seen the Supertest
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
SciFrog said:
So now the real question is: can they fix what was messed up on the 997TT? I don't see how the 997GT2 can be 20s faster...
Agreed, that is a tricky point. IF sportauto did 7.3x (and I am sure they will given Kreso's post...) the most likely explanation for the 20s gap to the 997TT is the AWD system (PTM). In other words: a 20s gap would highlight how crappy PTM really is...
Sep 12, 2007 2:25:44 PM
- silvershadow
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MKSGR
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
I agree. They need to fix the PTM for the Turbo that i do not know for which reason is now so unefficient on the track.
On the other side we have to consider that the car is not only designed for track use. This is the reason why they could have modified few things just before launching the car on the marked, screwing up the track performance to have a little bit more daily usability.
Can it be?
On the other side we have to consider that the car is not only designed for track use. This is the reason why they could have modified few things just before launching the car on the marked, screwing up the track performance to have a little bit more daily usability.
Can it be?
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Markus,
Few things... 997 GT2 is developed with new Cup+ tires. RWD plus more agressive LSD and new SC/TC(Stability Control/Traction Control) offers amazing traction. 997 Turbo was on the other hand developed with several street only tires(Michelin Pilot Sport N1, Bridgestone Potenza RE050 N1 etc.) and when they put Cups from GT3 on it final track results were not that good(but, W.Rohrl really did mid 7.4Xmin with manual 997 Turbo with Cups).
AND you seems to forgot that 997 GT3 is the fastest car Sport Auto ever tested on WET handling track-with only RWD and Cups! Several seconds faster then 997 Turbo on the same wet handling track...
New 997 GT2 is IMHO ultimate sportscar(or ultimate second car)... There is just one question for future 997 GT2 owners-first car: Audi RS6 Avant or Porsche Cayenne GTS?
Few things... 997 GT2 is developed with new Cup+ tires. RWD plus more agressive LSD and new SC/TC(Stability Control/Traction Control) offers amazing traction. 997 Turbo was on the other hand developed with several street only tires(Michelin Pilot Sport N1, Bridgestone Potenza RE050 N1 etc.) and when they put Cups from GT3 on it final track results were not that good(but, W.Rohrl really did mid 7.4Xmin with manual 997 Turbo with Cups).
AND you seems to forgot that 997 GT3 is the fastest car Sport Auto ever tested on WET handling track-with only RWD and Cups! Several seconds faster then 997 Turbo on the same wet handling track...
New 997 GT2 is IMHO ultimate sportscar(or ultimate second car)... There is just one question for future 997 GT2 owners-first car: Audi RS6 Avant or Porsche Cayenne GTS?
Sep 12, 2007 2:37:40 PM
- TT Surgeon
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Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Markus,
Few things... 997 GT2 is developed with new Cup+ tires. RWD plus more agressive LSD and new SC/TC(Stability Control/Traction Control) offers amazing traction. 997 Turbo was on the other hand developed with several street only tires(Michelin Pilot Sport N1, Bridgestone Potenza RE050 N1 etc.) and when they put Cups from GT3 on it final track results were not that good(but, W.Rohrl really did mid 7.4Xmin with manual 997 Turbo with Cups).
AND you seems to forgot that 997 GT3 is the fastest car Sport Auto ever tested on WET handling track-with only RWD and Cups! Several seconds faster then 997 Turbo on the same wet handling track...
New 997 GT2 is IMHO ultimate sportscar(or ultimate second car)... There is just one question for future 997 GT2 owners-first car: Audi RS6 Avant or Porsche Cayenne GTS?
I already have a MY08 Cayenne Turbo
I'd say the GTS, because you will have access to ride height control when going off-road.
Sep 12, 2007 2:50:35 PM
- turbosteff
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MKSGR
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:It is not necessary to mention this. We all know your point of view. I am looking forward what you will post if HvS drives a 7.3x
MKSGR said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I can already tell you some little thing... Sport Auto Horst von Saurma will achive 7.3Xmin on the Ring without any problem. Issue 1/2008 or 2/2008...
That sounds very promising
Sep 12, 2007 3:39:51 PM
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MKSGR
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Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
turbosteff said:Quote:It is not necessary to mention this. We all know your point of view. I am looking forward what you will post if HvS drives a 7.3x
MKSGR said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I can already tell you some little thing... Sport Auto Horst von Saurma will achive 7.3Xmin on the Ring without any problem. Issue 1/2008 or 2/2008...
That sounds very promising
Simple answer: if HvS does a sub-7:40 this result would (in my opinion) highlight the rather unfavourable results of the 997TT supertest again. Why? Simply reason. Just assume that HvS is within a 5-8s range compared to the officially claimed Porsche figures with nearly all Porsche cars (Carrera GT, GT3, GT3RS, 997, GT2 etc. etc.). However, he misses Porsche's 997TT claim by nearly 15s. What does that imply? In my opinion that would underline the relevance of the 997TT Supertest and would also confirm my suspicion regarding Porsche's 997TT performance claims.
BTW: if HvS does a below 7:40 time this would clearly highlight what a nice sportscar the new GT2 is
Given our enthusiasm in the months before the first test reports on the 997TT and the disappointments that followed I, however, have learned to be cautious about the information available to date. In essence, the info is just based on what Porsche wants us to believe. We need independant verification before we get too excited.
Sep 12, 2007 3:42:42 PM
- silvershadow
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MKSGR
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
turbosteff said:Quote:It is not necessary to mention this. We all know your point of view. I am looking forward what you will post if HvS drives a 7.3x
MKSGR said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I can already tell you some little thing... Sport Auto Horst von Saurma will achive 7.3Xmin on the Ring without any problem. Issue 1/2008 or 2/2008...
That sounds very promising
Simple answer: if HvS does a sub-7:40 this result would (in my opinion) highlight the rather unfavourable results of the 997TT supertest again. Why? Simply reason. Just assume that HvS is within a 5-8s range compared to the officially claimed Porsche figures with nearly all Porsche cars (Carrera GT, GT3, GT3RS, 997, GT2 etc. etc.). However, he misses Porsche's 997TT claim by nearly 15s. What does that imply? In my opinion that would underline the relevance of the 997TT Supertest and would also confirm my suspicion regarding Porsche's 997TT performance claims.
BTW: if HvS does a below 7:40 time this would clearly highlight what a nice sportscar the new GT2 is
Definitely true!!!!
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
turbosteff said:Quote:It is not necessary to mention this. We all know your point of view. I am looking forward what you will post if HvS drives a 7.3x
MKSGR said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I can already tell you some little thing... Sport Auto Horst von Saurma will achive 7.3Xmin on the Ring without any problem. Issue 1/2008 or 2/2008...
That sounds very promising
Simple answer: if HvS does a sub-7:40 this result would (in my opinion) highlight the rather unfavourable results of the 997TT supertest again. Why? Simply reason. Just assume that HvS is within a 5-8s range compared to the officially claimed Porsche figures with nearly all Porsche cars (Carrera GT, GT3, GT3RS, 997, GT2 etc. etc.). However, he misses Porsche's 997TT claim by nearly 15s. What does that imply? In my opinion that would underline the relevance of the 997TT Supertest and would also confirm my suspicion regarding Porsche's 997TT performance claims.
BTW: if HvS does a below 7:40 time this would clearly highlight what a nice sportscar the new GT2 is
MKSGR, when's your 599 due?
Looking fwd to upcoming data/impressions re: GT2 and Scud....not sure which will be more enjoyable/safe for use in public mtn twisties driving....esp how useable these nifty track-focused tires are on public roads which occasionally have wet/damp spots...and miscellaneous debris....and how compromised these chassis setups will be if one uses less track-focused, more public road-compatible perf tires like PZeroHero, etc...
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
WBH said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
turbosteff said:Quote:It is not necessary to mention this. We all know your point of view. I am looking forward what you will post if HvS drives a 7.3x
MKSGR said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I can already tell you some little thing... Sport Auto Horst von Saurma will achive 7.3Xmin on the Ring without any problem. Issue 1/2008 or 2/2008...
That sounds very promising
Simple answer: if HvS does a sub-7:40 this result would (in my opinion) highlight the rather unfavourable results of the 997TT supertest again. Why? Simply reason. Just assume that HvS is within a 5-8s range compared to the officially claimed Porsche figures with nearly all Porsche cars (Carrera GT, GT3, GT3RS, 997, GT2 etc. etc.). However, he misses Porsche's 997TT claim by nearly 15s. What does that imply? In my opinion that would underline the relevance of the 997TT Supertest and would also confirm my suspicion regarding Porsche's 997TT performance claims.
BTW: if HvS does a below 7:40 time this would clearly highlight what a nice sportscar the new GT2 is
MKSGR, when's your 599 due?
Looking fwd to upcoming data/impressions re: GT2 and Scud....not sure which will be more enjoyable/safe for use in public mtn twisties driving....esp how useable these nifty track-focused tires are on public roads which occasionally have wet/damp spots...and miscellaneous debris....and how compromised these chassis setups will be if one uses less track-focused, more public road-compatible perf tires like PZeroHero, etc...
The new Cups on the GT2 are allegedly toned down and handle fine in the wet.
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
eclou said:
Still a 14 second gap between the 2. With the combination of 400lbs less weight, 325mm vs 305mm rear tires, aggressive alignment and ride height I can believe a 1.x second per mile difference.
Also seems plausible to me. Don't forget - weight IS the enemy. The new GT2 appears to be a winner.
As for SA's infamous poor Turbo time.
1. W.Rohrl did NOT use PASM while HvA DID.
2. Obviously, (at least on the Turbo) PASM will not provide the best track times.
3. Since the Turbo wasn't designed for Cup tires, using PASM and Cups probably didn't help matters.
4. Porsche official times for each model seem quite fair given SA's proximity to them. Something just doesn't add-up with their Turbo test fiasco. Believe what you will.
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Crash, have heard that claim 
...but will be intrigued to see how these tires actually interface w/chassis and stab ctrls, etc on real-world, sometimes wet/bumpy roads... 
In fact, in era of increasingly tech-intensive cars, would suspect P/F will be continually/feverishly tweaking/debugging hardware/software parameters of GT2 and Scud over next several mths to optimize "unofficial" NBR marketing claims
and yet optimize various engineering trade-offs (easy to maximize NBR/HHKK perf if one doesn't need to fully engineer trade-offs vs safety/reliability/bumps/wet, etc ) for actual produc-spec cars delivered to buyers/amateur drivers who will likely drive these cars primarily on public roads, often in litigation-prone US....
On 599, TPMS even incls temps of tires, for one to assess likely behavior of tires vs temps....problem of overly complex, flat-prone track-oriented tires is that hard data/subjective impressions will be tougher to interpret w/so many chassis variables (incl decay curves of tires/brakes)....vs wet/bumpy roads....esp mtn twisties where one's margin for error is often small....
BTW, another complication of these latest-tech tires/wheels vs real world is that, if one has flat tire/wheel deformation and needs replacement tire/wheel (which 599 seems prone to suffer on suboptimal ex-German roads), often these bespoke-spec tires/wheels aren't immediately/overnt-available, even in major mkts like CA.....limiting daily useability....already have a few colleagues who always keep at least two new 599/65 commuter cars in their fleet, as they assume that, if one of their cars w/20" wheels/perf tires is out-of-action waiting for a rpcmt tire/wheel, they at least have another acceptable commuter car as they wait....and don't need to drive some gruesome loaner car or their wife's lame sedan/SUV
...but will be intrigued to see how these tires actually interface w/chassis and stab ctrls, etc on real-world, sometimes wet/bumpy roads... In fact, in era of increasingly tech-intensive cars, would suspect P/F will be continually/feverishly tweaking/debugging hardware/software parameters of GT2 and Scud over next several mths to optimize "unofficial" NBR marketing claims
and yet optimize various engineering trade-offs (easy to maximize NBR/HHKK perf if one doesn't need to fully engineer trade-offs vs safety/reliability/bumps/wet, etc ) for actual produc-spec cars delivered to buyers/amateur drivers who will likely drive these cars primarily on public roads, often in litigation-prone US....On 599, TPMS even incls temps of tires, for one to assess likely behavior of tires vs temps....problem of overly complex, flat-prone track-oriented tires is that hard data/subjective impressions will be tougher to interpret w/so many chassis variables (incl decay curves of tires/brakes)....vs wet/bumpy roads....esp mtn twisties where one's margin for error is often small....
BTW, another complication of these latest-tech tires/wheels vs real world is that, if one has flat tire/wheel deformation and needs replacement tire/wheel (which 599 seems prone to suffer on suboptimal ex-German roads), often these bespoke-spec tires/wheels aren't immediately/overnt-available, even in major mkts like CA.....limiting daily useability....already have a few colleagues who always keep at least two new 599/65 commuter cars in their fleet, as they assume that, if one of their cars w/20" wheels/perf tires is out-of-action waiting for a rpcmt tire/wheel, they at least have another acceptable commuter car as they wait....and don't need to drive some gruesome loaner car or their wife's lame sedan/SUV
Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
MKSGR said:
Next Feb or March
(The GT2 might complement the 599 well, don't you think. Thinking of track usage...)
So you're going to take both?
Maybe... However, right now: waiting for the Supertest (and, BTW, some 0-300 data would be nice
).
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