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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide

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Sep 9, 2007 11:05:47 PM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: U Boat Commander

PAG should watch out....

Given the competition, the face-lifted CS (non-X51) should be 400HP. A Corvette C6 is 436HP, less weight and half the price. And do not tell me the C6 is not competition, because if you so state you have not driven the '08 C6. I have and I am impressed, and I have been a 911 fan through and through.

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Sep 9, 2007 11:49:04 PM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: ADias

Re: PAG should watch out....

ADias: You're never going to loose that argument with a P enthusiast, but you're always going to loose it with P.

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Sep 10, 2007 1:56:17 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: PAG should watch out....

Quote:
U Boat Commander said:
ADias: You're never going to loose that argument with a P enthusiast, but you're always going to loose it with P.

Rather than phrasing it as you did { I[we] are always going to lose it with P[AG] }, I would say that PAG may be the loser if they do not watch out. Up until recently PAG had the religious support of P-car aficionados like you and me, but in recent years we are a minority of its customers. Yearly production grew and they attracted the fashion-of-the-day car buyer who is far more fickle and switches to another marque in a New York minute. To keep their attention they have to be more competitive and stop milking 20HP model increases when the competition has already reached higher plateaus.

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Sep 10, 2007 2:45:28 AM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: Dealer showed me...

Quote:
RC said:
MY 2009 FACELIFT will be at US dealers around August/Sept. maybe a month earlier.

So maybe the dealer was telling the truth!

As to hp, I just hope that the next generation cuts weight rather than adding the "bubba" solution of more hp. I want a Porsche that shows intelligent design and engineering, not the bumblef*ck school of pile on the hp and don't worry about the weight Wilmer solution.

I sound like a broken record but if Aston, Audi, BMW, Chevrolet (Z06), Ferrari, Lotus, Mercedes-AMG, and even Porsche can charge more for less weight, let's start seeing that engineering philosophy extend down to "mortal" everyday cars like the 987/997.

Charge the same cost as the X51 kit for a 200kg weight reduction, and I know which I would go for in a heart beat.

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Sep 10, 2007 2:50:14 AM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: ADias

Re: PAG should watch out....

But people have been saying that as long as I have been a P car owner (going on 12 yrs now). I imagine they have been saying that a lot longer than that. Heck, there was only a 15hp difference between a 993S and 996. Further, some would say that Porsche lost the N/A performance war when the F355 came out and they haven't tried to keep up since. There's only so much you can do with six cylinders.

IMO, the real problem these days is not HP but weight. Sure, I'd like to see 400hp in a 997S. But I'd like to see them take 300lbs off it first.

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Sep 10, 2007 3:28:18 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: PAG should watch out....

Quote:
U Boat Commander said:
IMO, the real problem these days is not HP but weight. Sure, I'd like to see 400hp in a 997S. But I'd like to see them take 300lbs off it first.

You got that right. I was flabbergasted learning the new 997TT cabrio tips the scales at a whopping 3726lbs!

But there again PAG answers to the masses clamoring for wood/Al/CF useless bits and heavy stereo crap to further fill their coffers all along.

I disagree with LeChef that a delete car should cost more. The reverse should be true. Offer a basic light car for a given price and then offer cafeteria-style options for a price.

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Sep 10, 2007 3:46:39 AM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: ADias

Re: PAG should watch out....

Quote:
ADias said:You got that right. I was flabbergasted learning the new 997TT cabrio tips the scales at a whopping 4726lbs!

Huh? Your're joking, right? The 977TT Cab is 3494lbs for six speed. It's not a Veyron.

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Sep 10, 2007 4:01:31 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: PAG should watch out....

Quote:
U Boat Commander said:
Quote:
ADias said:You got that right. I was flabbergasted learning the new 997TT cabrio tips the scales at a whopping 4726lbs!

Huh? Your're joking, right? The 977TT Cab is 3494lbs for six speed. It's not a Veyron.

Sorry... meant 3726lbs and my statement relates to this overweight 3726lbs fat monster.

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Sep 10, 2007 6:12:59 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: PAG should watch out....

Quote:
U Boat Commander said:
IMO, the real problem these days is not HP but weight. Sure, I'd like to see 400hp in a 997S. But I'd like to see them take 300lbs off it first.

Well, who wouldn't?

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Sep 10, 2007 7:53:10 PM

jandreas: Junior; Loc: STX , U.S. Virgin Islands; Posts: 75, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 6, 2002; Reply to: WBH

Re: Dealer showed me...

Quote:
WBH said:Why give away timing to dealers/custs and lose/delay sales (and/or force discts/cheaper leases) of curr model for many mths in advance of inevitable leaks on various chat boards as we get closer to official disclosure?

They gave away their plans when allocations for MY08 were announced. Just like they did with the DFI Cayenne.

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Sep 11, 2007 2:04:20 AM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: ADias

PHAT Boys should watch out....

Quote:
[I disagree with LeChef that a delete car should cost more. The reverse should be true. Offer a basic light car for a given price and then offer cafeteria-style options for a price.

In the new world order if you want to save on rising emission-based car taxes around the world, and extra taxes on gasoline, then you will likely be happier paying more for lightness. The point is more carbon fiber, aluminum etc. strategically located in the right places will dramatically improve handling and acceleration. Why wouldn't you pay more for that? Those lighter weight materials just cost more to produce so why wouldn't you charge more for them? And logically if people already pay more for headers, chips and X51 kits why not pay more for lightness as a way to get better performance?

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Sep 11, 2007 8:30:58 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: U Boat Commander

Re: Dealer showed me...

Quote:
U Boat Commander said:
Quote:
Gnil said:
Quote:
devo said:
RC, is 400 hp possible w/o x51?

I would bet on 400 hp with x51. RC mentioned a small power encrease..so , Carrera S with 380 hp , X51 400hp. and that leaves room to the GT3. Otherwise , Carrera S 400hp , X51..425 hp.., no, it does not work !

I have to agree with that logic somewhat and it is supported by past Porsche practice. Typical bump from Mk I to Mk II is 20hp. On the other hand, I don't think a 400hp 997S would really eat into GT3 sales because the GT3 is really a totally different car that people buy for more than just the additional power. Plus a 997S with X51 would sticker for almost as much as a GT3 (only about US$8K).

Unless 997.5 has more than just DI then I refer you back to the calcs I did a while back (based on the Cayenne)...

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