Quote:
devo said:
Audi has released the base MSRP of the S5; $50,500.00 (plus $775 destination).
S-line is $1850
Convenience package $2900
Nav $2390
B&O stereo $850
Kudos to Audi.
The A5 has a base MSRP $39,900.00.
Sep 6, 2007 8:56:16 PM
Sep 6, 2007 9:11:41 PM
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
Crash said:
That's extremely cheap. We Europeans are getting fleeced with our prices.
Hey,
You guys have free health care and we don't. So the least European can do for us is cheaper cars .
Sep 6, 2007 10:36:31 PM
Quote:
Enzo911 said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
Crash said:
That's extremely cheap. We Europeans are getting fleeced with our prices.
Hey,
You guys have free health care and we don't. So the least European can do for us is cheaper cars .
And we pay for it
Sep 7, 2007 12:24:00 AM
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
Crash said:
That's extremely cheap. We Europeans are getting fleeced with our prices.
Hey,
You guys have free health care and we don't. So the least European can do for us is cheaper cars .
Sep 7, 2007 12:39:26 AM
Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
Crash said:
That's extremely cheap. We Europeans are getting fleeced with our prices.
Hey,
You guys have free health care and we don't. So the least European can do for us is cheaper cars .
I don't know which is better ... having cars cost less here than in Europe or NOT having "free" health care.
Quote:
WBH said:Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
Crash said:
That's extremely cheap. We Europeans are getting fleeced with our prices.
Hey,
You guys have free health care and we don't. So the least European can do for us is cheaper cars .
I don't know which is better ... having cars cost less here than in Europe or NOT having "free" health care.
US is simply a far more efficient mkt/economy than EU...thus, cheaper cars/lease terms/fuel/insurance/better lemon laws&warranties....and much cheaper houses w/modern HVAC (London even w/o modern HVAC is still 2x NYC/CA prices )....and near-perfect CA weather for car nuts...
EU healthcare is prob what one would expect in any quasi-socialist system where one waits in line to see some likely dim-witted quack who earns <$100K/yr....
But Germany does have derestricted AB and much smoother pavement than CA ....but German winters....
Quote:
WBH said:
US is simply a far more efficient mkt/economy than EU...thus, cheaper cars/lease terms/fuel/insurance/better lemon laws&warranties....and much cheaper houses w/modern HVAC (London even w/o modern HVAC is still 2x NYC/CA prices )....and near-perfect CA weather for car nuts...
EU healthcare is prob what one would expect in any quasi-socialist system where one waits in line to see some likely dim-witted quack who earns <$100K/yr....
But Germany does have derestricted AB and much smoother pavement than CA ....but German winters....
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
WBH said:Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
Crash said:
That's extremely cheap. We Europeans are getting fleeced with our prices.
Hey,
You guys have free health care and we don't. So the least European can do for us is cheaper cars .
I don't know which is better ... having cars cost less here than in Europe or NOT having "free" health care.
US is simply a far more efficient mkt/economy than EU...thus, cheaper cars/lease terms/fuel/insurance/better lemon laws&warranties....and much cheaper houses w/modern HVAC (London even w/o modern HVAC is still 2x NYC/CA prices )....and near-perfect CA weather for car nuts...
EU healthcare is prob what one would expect in any quasi-socialist system where one waits in line to see some likely dim-witted quack who earns <$100K/yr....
But Germany does have derestricted AB and much smoother pavement than CA ....but German winters....
BTW, I am very happy in "quazi-socialist" Europe! I like USA but, I could not live there. NEVER.
Sep 7, 2007 2:32:38 PM
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
WBH said:Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
Crash said:
That's extremely cheap. We Europeans are getting fleeced with our prices.
Hey,
You guys have free health care and we don't. So the least European can do for us is cheaper cars .
I don't know which is better ... having cars cost less here than in Europe or NOT having "free" health care.
US is simply a far more efficient mkt/economy than EU...thus, cheaper cars/lease terms/fuel/insurance/better lemon laws&warranties....and much cheaper houses w/modern HVAC (London even w/o modern HVAC is still 2x NYC/CA prices )....and near-perfect CA weather for car nuts...
EU healthcare is prob what one would expect in any quasi-socialist system where one waits in line to see some likely dim-witted quack who earns <$100K/yr....
But Germany does have derestricted AB and much smoother pavement than CA ....but German winters....
BTW, I am very happy in "quazi-socialist" Europe! I like USA but, I could not live there. NEVER.
Sep 7, 2007 6:15:13 PM
Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
WBH said:Quote:
SoCal Alan said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
Crash said:
That's extremely cheap. We Europeans are getting fleeced with our prices.
Hey,
You guys have free health care and we don't. So the least European can do for us is cheaper cars .
I don't know which is better ... having cars cost less here than in Europe or NOT having "free" health care.
US is simply a far more efficient mkt/economy than EU...thus, cheaper cars/lease terms/fuel/insurance/better lemon laws&warranties....and much cheaper houses w/modern HVAC (London even w/o modern HVAC is still 2x NYC/CA prices )....and near-perfect CA weather for car nuts...
EU healthcare is prob what one would expect in any quasi-socialist system where one waits in line to see some likely dim-witted quack who earns <$100K/yr....
But Germany does have derestricted AB and much smoother pavement than CA ....but German winters....
BTW, I am very happy in "quazi-socialist" Europe! I like USA but, I could not live there. NEVER.
I also like Europe. But I could never live there. It's great that we have choices in this world. I'm very happy living in the "less-socialist" US. I only wish our system of government was even more "hands-off" and less controlled.
Quote:
JohnJohn said:Quote:
WBH said:
US is simply a far more efficient mkt/economy than EU...thus, cheaper cars/lease terms/fuel/insurance/better lemon laws&warranties....and much cheaper houses w/modern HVAC (London even w/o modern HVAC is still 2x NYC/CA prices )....and near-perfect CA weather for car nuts...
EU healthcare is prob what one would expect in any quasi-socialist system where one waits in line to see some likely dim-witted quack who earns <$100K/yr....
But Germany does have derestricted AB and much smoother pavement than CA ....but German winters....
I don't know if I'd go as far as saying the US is a more efficient market economy - it's a corrupt, hardcore capitalist society, yes. More efficient? Don't think so. Your healthcare system is proof enough - you ppl are getting screwed!
Cars are cheaper in the US but insurance is def more expensive.
Houses might be cheaper too, but the quality of US houses is joke compared to what you get in most European countries.
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WBH said:
Obviously a complex comparison; much of one's satisfaction w/present std of living depends upon one's current socio-economic status (and ability/desire to move upwards) in US vs EU.....typically makes most sense to try to compare "apples to apples"
US is efficient esp in sense that a smart, middle-class/poor kid growing up in Podunk US prob has better odds of attending Wharton/Stanford, etc and starting a hedge fund/tech co. and becoming a centimillionaire/billionaire at <40-45yo...than does a kid of same description growing up in London/Munich/Frankfurt...or Podunk EU....would eval how many self-made, <45yo guys worth >$100MM are in SF/NYC regions vs London/Munich, etc.....
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WBH said:
Houses.....cost of newly-built houses of similar qual construc/HVAC/tech systems on prime, comparably-sized land in most affluent areas of most economically-relevant urban regions of US vs EU....suspect US is 50% cheaper....(and from what I understand, even w/nearly unlim resources and at 2X cost of NYC/CA, Lond's hedge fund kings often don't have state-of-art HVAC in their W End houses/offices/restaurants.... )
Quote:
WBH said:
Healthcare: not many smart physicians available at any price in most of US/EU (and most of smarter physicians (for decades) for obvious economic/intellectual reasons haven't wanted to be mere primary care physicians); even in US, vast majority of urban regions have weak healthcare at any price; not surprisingly, most smart physicians choose to practice/live in parts of urban regions where they are intellectually/economically challenged&satisfied.....would compare quality of healthcare available to affluent guy in SF/NYC/LA vs Lond/Munich at any price (on SF Peninsula, best physicians often don't accept any insurance; affluent customers pay by credit card and take whatever reimbursement high-end insurers will compensate)....IMO, prefer free-mkt pricing of talent....smart, affluent guys will pay whatever makes sense from a risk/reward standpoint to obtain healthcare from the best available physicians...but doubt many affluent guys in US/EU will choose to stand in line for their "free" healthcare from any physician/med ctr willing to accept poor renumeration from government or some low-end insurer....interestingly, SiliconValley's StanfordMedCtr and Boston's MassGeneral, etc rcv visits from many rather affluent guys from RoW (and rest of US), presumably seeking (at any price) world's best healthcare, esp. for complex situations....
Sep 8, 2007 2:47:30 PM
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JohnJohn said:
If we leave out the part of potentially becoming a centimillionaire/billionaire, I would def say that the possibility of "making it", regardless of background, is much better here (at least in my part of EU) than anywhere in the US.
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JohnJohn said:
Another thing I don't understand is the American fascination with HVAC. Sure, prop ventilation is important, but using the ventilation system for heating... No thanx.
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JohnJohn said:Maybe my social conscience is too well developed, but what about all the poor bastards who can't afford the best healthcare?
I don't like this every-man-for-himself attitude that's so prevalent in the US. Proper healthcare and education should be available to everyone, even the poorest of the poor.
Sep 8, 2007 6:33:39 PM
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SoCal Alan said:
Can you elaborate? Why is wealth creation easier in your country than in ours?
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SoCal Alan said:Quote:
JohnJohn said:
Another thing I don't understand is the American fascination with HVAC. Sure, prop ventilation is important, but using the ventilation system for heating... No thanx.Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
What do you use?
I/we up here use radiator/water based heating. My personal favorite is floor heating.Quote:
JohnJohn said:Maybe my social conscience is too well developed, but what about all the poor bastards who can't afford the best healthcare?
I don't like this every-man-for-himself attitude that's so prevalent in the US. Proper healthcare and education should be available to everyone, even the poorest of the poor.
Maybe you watch too much CNN or BBC but the reality is that the poor are already getting the best care for free. How do I know this? Because my wife goes to the same first rate hospitals.
Yes, maybe I am watching too much CNN and BBC. I don't have a very positive view of the American healthcare system.
Sep 8, 2007 7:31:01 PM
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JohnJohn said:
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. If we leave out the potential for becoming billionaires, or creating serious wealth, I'd say it's easier here [at least in Sweden] to come from a poor background, get in to our top universities and create your own future - be it self-made billionaire or professional whatever.
Why? Main reason probably because all education is free. But also because our whole society is much more oriented towards equal opportunities regardless of who you are.
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JohnJohn said:
I/we up here use radiator/water based heating. My personal favorite is floor heating.
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JohnJohn said:
Yes, maybe I am watching too much CNN and BBC. I don't have a very positive view of the American healthcare system.
Sep 9, 2007 8:25:59 AM
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SoCal Alan said:
Anybody who works hard can succeed. It helps if you start young. Go to school, get good grades, go to college get good grades. Go to work, work hard. Not really complicated. That's what I did. I did not go to private schools. But the key once you get an education, is that you have to work hard. Or, are damn lucky. Either way, when you get to point that you can earn a living, the key is that the country you are in has to provide an environment where the company you work for or the company you start/own can grow with minimal government interference. Is that the way it is in Sweden? Are there a lot of rules/regulations/taxes/unions/mandatory health care/workers comp/maternity & paternity leave/ etc. etc. that would prevent/limit growth of that company? With all these burdens, it would be difficult to grow and build wealth for expansion, more job creation, etc.,
Also, there shouldn't be punitive taxes so that wealth creation for the middle income and upper middle income earners is hampered. AMT/dividend/capital gains taxes are still too high.
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SoCal Alan said:
Tell me more. Are you talking about radiant heating for the floors? The reason I'm interested is because I'm currently in the middle of designing my new home and I have to decide on radiant heating (no air conditioning) or forced air unit which includes the duct work for heating and air conditioning. However, after the latest heat wave here in California, air conditioning is a must, IMHO.