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    Aug 28, 2007 11:28:47 AM

    Jay Offline
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    Jay
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    PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    So a dealer (sales) told me PASM is 'almost' just as good as the other suspension options above? Doesn't quite sound right. Comments from those that know please!

    -------------

    Whilst on topic of suspension, I drove a Cayenne Turbo on the track with PDCC - quite amazing the way it handled over the old Cayenne.

    Aug 28, 2007 12:19:07 PM

    AUM
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    AUM
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    Reply to: Jay

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Motons perform significantly better than stock 997 suspension, particularly on the track. But they need correct adjustment.

    Aug 28, 2007 1:44:09 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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    Reply to: Jay

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    Jay said:
    So a dealer (sales) told me PASM is 'almost' just as good as the other suspension options above? Doesn't quite sound right. Comments from those that know please!


    Motons are in another universe from PASM. Probably worth at least 4 seconds per lap faster than PASM on most tracks (if setup and aligned properly)...

    Aug 30, 2007 3:56:48 PM

    frayed
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    frayed
    Loc: Austin, TX , United States
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    What Grant said.

    Don't confuse PASM with damper quality. PASM is still reliant (or handicapped by) Bilstein dampers. That is, PASM = active bilsteins. Bilsteins are great dampers *in their price range* but cannot remotely compare to a quality damper like a Moton/Ohlin/JRZ etc.

    Motons are in a whole different league, and offer incredible wheel control and stunning high speed damping characterstics. I have them on my track car, and even with absurdly stiff springs (for street use), it's amazing how they handle the weight of the car and make things that much more tractable/predictable.

    911's, with their inherently difficult-to-tame engine layout benefit even more than your typical front engine car.

    Aug 31, 2007 8:03:45 AM

    sergini
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    sergini
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    Reply to: frayed

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    moton in italy costs 11000 Euro ...but seems they are the best .

    Aug 31, 2007 11:26:36 AM

    Porker
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    Reply to: sergini

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Is it correct that Motons aren't user friendly for someone who has them on his daily?
    In the sense that they require a lot of maintenance?
    In that case are there more "daily car"-alternatives for these superior dampers?

    Aug 31, 2007 6:44:37 PM

    sergini
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    sergini
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    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    with that Adsorbers you can low the car like a race car and you havn't problems wih spacers buring the braking .
    For daily cars I think that are better Bilstein PSS with PASM sensor inside .

    Aug 31, 2007 8:48:56 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
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    Reply to: sergini

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    sergini said:
    moton in italy costs 11000 Euro ...but seems they are the best .


    There is a Clubsport range of Moton products too that cost much less.

    Aug 31, 2007 8:49:51 PM

    Grant
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    Grant
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    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    Porker said:
    Is it correct that Motons aren't user friendly for someone who has them on his daily?
    In the sense that they require a lot of maintenance?
    In that case are there more "daily car"-alternatives for these superior dampers?


    Yes, Motons require periodic rebuilding and you need to tend to the Nitrogen pressure. Not really a good choice for a daily driver.

    There really is nothing that will give you Moton (or JRZ/Penske/etc.) performance without the hassle. Bilstein PSS9 is very good for a street car, but they are not close to Moton quality. It is usually more than enough for a street car though...

    Sep 1, 2007 8:52:15 AM

    Porker
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Porker said:
    Is it correct that Motons aren't user friendly for someone who has them on his daily?
    In the sense that they require a lot of maintenance?
    In that case are there more "daily car"-alternatives for these superior dampers?


    Yes, Motons require periodic rebuilding and you need to tend to the Nitrogen pressure. Not really a good choice for a daily driver.

    There really is nothing that will give you Moton (or JRZ/Penske/etc.) performance without the hassle. Bilstein PSS9 is very good for a street car, but they are not close to Moton quality. It is usually more than enough for a street car though...



    Someone familiar with Intrax?

    I hear good things about them too, they also seem to play in that league above Bilstein and the other big hitters..
    http://www.intraxsuspension.com/

    Sep 1, 2007 8:53:54 AM

    Porker
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    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
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    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: sergini

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    sergini said:
    with that Adsorbers you can low the car like a race car and you havn't problems wih spacers buring the braking .
    For daily cars I think that are better Bilstein PSS with PASM sensor inside .



    Isn't that what you had on your 997S? Why didn't you opt for the -20mm/LSD? Is a 997S with PSS9 a better compromise for regular trackdays than the -20mm?

    Sep 1, 2007 9:55:39 AM

    sergini
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    sergini
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    Reply to: Porker

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    My car had -20/lsd .

    I put Pss9 on my former 997S but the car was slower on the track .
    The car in turns was softer and not easy to use at high speed.

    consider that I was the first customer in eurore for theese adsorbers ,I send back to bilstein and I put the original adsorbers (with new hard frequences made in Bilstein ) and H&R lower springs ...the car was wonderful and faster than pss9 and -20 .
    Finally they saw to me that my pss9 had problems ,but i prefered my new compromize. .

    I think for a Pasm daily user that the pss9 with pasm is the best conpromize for fun and daily citiy use .
    If I'll buy a 997 Turbo theese are the first item to put ......te car is too "tall" ...

    Sep 1, 2007 11:21:41 AM

    Porker
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    Porker
    Loc: SZ , Switzerland
    Posts: 7062, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 17, 2005
    Reply to: sergini

    Re: PASM vs Moton / Bilstein / Ohlins etc

    Quote:
    sergini said:
    My car had -20/lsd .

    I put Pss9 on my former 997S but the car was slower on the track .
    The car in turns was softer and not easy to use at high speed.

    consider that I was the first customer in eurore for theese adsorbers ,I send back to bilstein and I put the original adsorbers (with new hard frequences made in Bilstein ) and H&R lower springs ...the car was wonderful and faster than pss9 and -20 .
    Finally they saw to me that my pss9 had problems ,but i prefered my new compromize. .

    I think for a Pasm daily user that the pss9 with pasm is the best conpromize for fun and daily citiy use .
    If I'll buy a 997 Turbo theese are the first item to put ......te car is too "tall" ...



    So if I get it right, you had two 997S's one with LSD, one with PASM (and H&R springs).

    Is a 997S -20mm/LSD stiffer than a 997S PASM/PSS9?

    Thx for your answers
     
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