Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2 - Page1

Aug 6, 2007 8:30:13 AM

Nickoz: Co-Pilot; Loc: NSW Australia; Posts: 171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2007; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
MKSGR said:In such environment Porsche will always be second compared to the big ones (Audi, BMW, MB) and the best (Ferrari, Lamborghini etc.)

I agree that innovation is vital to ongoing success in this segment.

I think where we may disagree is Porsches position on the innovation curve. You see them lagging the pack, I see them leading. Of course this is open to debate, and different individual needs will produce varying opinions. As far as my purchase decision today is concerned, Porsche is where they need to be, particularly as regards the TT. I agree their USP is becoming somewhat diffuse, but as long as they keep producing the best car for me, that doesn't bother me too much. Now if I was a Porsche stockholder, I might be a lot more passionate about their USP!

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Aug 6, 2007 8:43:19 AM

Ziggy: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1600, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Cars like Cayenne and Panamera also contribute to USP dilution. These cars are positioned outside Porsche's core segment. Competitors in these segments are better qualified to build cars in these segments (just consider some obvious problems at Porsche: lack of Diesel, lack of modern gear technology, lack of state-of-the-art options like adaptive cruise control, sound systems, multimedia integration etc.).

But is the sport cars range intended to ramain Porsche's core segment ?

I read somewhere that for e.g. in china, the most promising market for the car industry, Porsche doesn't sell any 911 but Cayennes because status equalises to large-size cars there.

Also I don't quite agree that Porsche is lagging behind its main competitors in these segments, just look at the Cayenne, it is perceived at the best SUV in the market.

And I think Porsche has ample ressource to address the customers specific needs related to agreement features, even Ferrari does (cf. the latest multimedia equipment of the 612 Scaglietti).

I think Porsche knows PERFECTLY what they are doing, but I may be still naive

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Aug 6, 2007 9:01:47 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: fritz

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

An incredible (as in hard to believe) rumour from another forum:

'Non-official word from someone who knows and will remain nameless due to "considerations";

7:31 for WR in GT-2'

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Aug 6, 2007 9:48:13 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
Whoopsy said:
To remain independent and be financially successful they have no choice but to cater to a boarder audience, hence the birth of Boxter, Cayman, Cayenne and numerous versions of the 911. This strategy proved to be the correct course of action...

I agree that Porsche's strategy has been successful to date. I am not sure whether I agree that Porsche's current strategy will also secure future success...

Size does matter only to a certain extent. Look at MB/Chrysler, GM, Ford etc. There are many examples where company size did not help. It is the quality and USP of the cars offered that decides whether a OEM will be successful in the long run. I am afraid that Porsche has lost the right focus.

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Aug 6, 2007 9:54:46 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Nickoz

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
Nickoz said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:In such environment Porsche will always be second compared to the big ones (Audi, BMW, MB) and the best (Ferrari, Lamborghini etc.)

You see them lagging the pack, I see them leading.

Hmmm. Where do you see them leading?

VTG: no major improvement in day-to-day usability + inferior to traditional turbo engines in terms of ultra-high hp output
PTM: slower lap times than before + tricky drivability
PASM: more comfort, however, poor track performance
Gearbox: old auto tranny from the 90s, no F1, no DSG
Power: below competitors
Other goodies: lack of adequate multi media options, lack of adequate sound system, mediocre build quality compared to other cars in that price range

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Aug 6, 2007 9:55:07 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: AUM

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
AUM said:
An incredible (as in hard to believe) rumour from another forum:

'Non-official word from someone who knows and will remain nameless due to "considerations";

7:31 for WR in GT-2'

I think something along the lines of 'holy excrement' would be quite in order if this rumor turns out to be true.

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Aug 6, 2007 9:56:52 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: AUM

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
AUM said:
An incredible (as in hard to believe) rumour from another forum:

'Non-official word from someone who knows and will remain nameless due to "considerations";

7:31 for WR in GT-2'

I heard a rumour that WR did the NBR in the GT2 in less than 7 minutes yesterday

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Aug 6, 2007 9:57:58 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
AUM said:
An incredible (as in hard to believe) rumour from another forum:

'Non-official word from someone who knows and will remain nameless due to "considerations";

7:31 for WR in GT-2'

I heard a rumour that WR did the NBR in the GT2 in less than 7 minutes yesterday

With what? Hyperdrive engines running on pixie fairytale dust?

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Aug 6, 2007 10:36:59 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
AUM said:
An incredible (as in hard to believe) rumour from another forum:

'Non-official word from someone who knows and will remain nameless due to "considerations";

7:31 for WR in GT-2'

I heard a rumour that WR did the NBR in the GT2 in less than 7 minutes yesterday

With what? Hyperdrive engines running on pixie fairytale dust?

He did it in the light of the full moon

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Aug 6, 2007 10:54:01 AM

Nickoz: Co-Pilot; Loc: NSW Australia; Posts: 171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2007; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
MKSGR said:
VTG: no major improvement in day-to-day usability + inferior to traditional turbo engines in terms of ultra-high hp output
PTM: slower lap times than before + tricky drivability
PASM: more comfort, however, poor track performance
Gearbox: old auto tranny from the 90s, no F1, no DSG
Power: below competitors
Other goodies: lack of adequate multi media options, lack of adequate sound system, mediocre build quality compared to other cars in that price range

As I said, these issues are open to debate, and sometimes it's a question of the glass being half full or half empty. VTG, PASM, and PTM are positives for me, not negatives. I agree about the transmission and hope that Porsches delay in releasing PDK means the final product will be better as a result. Power, from a relatively small capacity engine is impressive IMHO, especially considering the long service intervals, fuel economy and low emissions. Build quality more than meets my expectations.

But y'know, there comes a time when you have to set those issues to one side a little, particularly with these kinds of cars, and allow your emotions to play a part! I've made up my mind, put my deposit down and now I just want the damn car!!

But I do respect your views and I (kind of) understnd where you're coming from.

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Aug 6, 2007 1:41:23 PM

eclou: Veteran; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 1182, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: Nickoz

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

from Porsche:

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Aug 6, 2007 2:06:34 PM

eclou: Veteran; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 1182, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: eclou

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

as an upload if you cannot see that picture

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Aug 6, 2007 2:12:23 PM

donkeyman: Junior; Loc: Hong Kong; Posts: 113, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 16, 2005; Reply to: eclou

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Wow - that"s amazing....

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Aug 6, 2007 2:36:00 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: donkeyman

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

The "credibility" of the above chart is being discussed here:

www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=360933&page=0&fpart=9&vc=1

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Aug 6, 2007 2:44:58 PM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

I find it 100% credible.

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Aug 6, 2007 4:21:20 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
I find it 100% credible.

That is quite unfortunate

You just need to read Sportauto (a leading European sportscar magazine) to note that the above chart contains wrong data...

P.S.: An alternative to reading Sportauto is to do a search on Rennteam. You will, for example, find the Sportauto NBR data for the 599GTB there. Also, Sportauto NBR data for the Gallardo has been discussed before.

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Aug 6, 2007 5:11:59 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

also take note, that Sport Auto is using a shorter version of the NBR as they do not close the track for their tests.
manufacturers have exclusive days where they have the whole track and use the whole length of the track....and yes, they do test competitiors cars for evaluation...and yes, they know how to drive them and extract the best performance.

this is from wikipedia:

[edit] Track lengths and timing
Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. The complete de:Nordschleife is 20.832 km long, full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup.

During the industry testing sessions in which de:Sport auto records its "Supertest", the track can not be traveled at full speed past "Tribüne 13" (T13, grandstand 13) in order to allow safe access from the old exit/entrance there. Thus, Sportauto Supertests cover only about 20.6 km, which in average yields a 7 s shorter lap time compared to a full lap.

There are 5 sections on the 20.600 meters long Supertest-Nordschleife:

1st=3850 m
2nd=4235 m
3rd=4825 m
4th=4846 m
5th=2844 m
=20600 m
Some lap times are even claimed to have been done during tourist driving sessions. Because it is forbidden to race on tourist days as it is very dangerous to drive fast among the general traffic one should not try to measure the lap time on a tourist day. As the full main straight cannot be driven at speed due to the modern exit/entrance there, these laps are usually timed "bridge to gantry", which is only 19.1 km and thus about 30 seconds shorter.

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Aug 6, 2007 5:51:50 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12681, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
MKSGR said:
He did it in the light of the full moon

Is that him?

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Aug 6, 2007 6:54:22 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
He did it in the light of the full moon

Is that him?

WR in action mode

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Aug 6, 2007 6:56:47 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
intouch1 said:
also take note, that Sport Auto is using a shorter version of the NBR as they do not close the track for their tests.
manufacturers have exclusive days where they have the whole track and use the whole length of the track....and yes, they do test competitiors cars for evaluation...and yes, they know how to drive them and extract the best performance.

this is from wikipedia:

[edit] Track lengths and timing
Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. The complete de:Nordschleife is 20.832 km long, full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup.

During the industry testing sessions in which de:Sport auto records its "Supertest", the track can not be traveled at full speed past "Tribüne 13" (T13, grandstand 13) in order to allow safe access from the old exit/entrance there. Thus, Sportauto Supertests cover only about 20.6 km, which in average yields a 7 s shorter lap time compared to a full lap.

There are 5 sections on the 20.600 meters long Supertest-Nordschleife:

1st=3850 m
2nd=4235 m
3rd=4825 m
4th=4846 m
5th=2844 m
=20600 m
Some lap times are even claimed to have been done during tourist driving sessions. Because it is forbidden to race on tourist days as it is very dangerous to drive fast among the general traffic one should not try to measure the lap time on a tourist day. As the full main straight cannot be driven at speed due to the modern exit/entrance there, these laps are usually timed "bridge to gantry", which is only 19.1 km and thus about 30 seconds shorter.

Based on my knowledge Sportauto does close the NBR for their track test. Also, the Porsche chart contains some test data from Sportauto, some completely wrong figures (like for the 599GTB) and this "imaginary" GT2 figure.

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Aug 7, 2007 4:15:28 AM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

How do YOU know it's 'imaginary'? Enlighten us if you have the inside scoop on a porsche scam.

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Aug 7, 2007 7:26:08 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
How do YOU know it's 'imaginary'? Enlighten us if you have the inside scoop on a porsche scam.

Just read my posts in this and the other thread. I am not inclined to spend more time on commenting this topic. Just accept my opinion or don't. Usually I am not far off.

Porsche makes a living out of guys believing this BS. So, please feel free to support their sales and realize later that you have been fooled

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Aug 7, 2007 8:56:36 AM

svtrader1: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 821, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2003; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Sometimes it just feels like you're talking to a brickwall.

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Aug 7, 2007 11:09:22 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: svtrader1

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
svtrader1 said:
Sometimes it just feels like you're talking to a brickwall.

After reading through this thread, you have a point. That being said, if the car does actually turn a time under 7:40, I will be seriously impressed.

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Aug 7, 2007 12:18:49 PM

Boyko23: Veteran; Loc: Sofia , Bulgaria; Posts: 1116, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 27, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

There are so many variables at the Ring and you are talking about margines of 1,2,3,... seconds :For me the most important thing in the whole story is the fact, that this car is obviously capable (in WR hands) to turn this lap... And the meaning of the word "record" is that it isn't happen any day in any hands

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Aug 7, 2007 12:27:42 PM

eclou: Veteran; Loc: Texas , United States; Posts: 1182, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: Boyko23

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Most people involved in club racing recognize that given the same chassis and equivalent drivers, a 100hp advantage is going to equate to roughly a 2 second advantage on a 3 mile circuit. I see no reason not to believe that the 997 variant of the GT2 could take about a 10 second advantage over a 996 variant on a 14 mile course.

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Aug 7, 2007 6:14:13 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: eclou

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
eclou said:
Most people involved in club racing recognize that given the same chassis and equivalent drivers, a 100hp advantage is going to equate to roughly a 2 second advantage on a 3 mile circuit. I see no reason not to believe that the 997 variant of the GT2 could take about a 10 second advantage over a 996 variant on a 14 mile course.

The Mk2 996 GT2 already had around 500 bhp (rated at 483). I find it very hard to believe that the new car can be so much faster with just 30 extra horsepower (unless it actually has more). Also, was the car running on Pilot Sport Cups?

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Aug 7, 2007 7:26:54 PM

chuckd: Newbie; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 42, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

I've seen several threads questioning Porsche's performance figures recently:
-Carrera GT acceleration time (calling it a lie)
-Porche 997 gt3 0-100mph in 8.7 sec (not one performance test has shown that result.. more in the 9 sec area)
-997TT Porsche stated Ring time of 7:40 (differs greatly from Sport Auto's but is conveniently faster than both Corvette z06 times of 7:43 and 7:5x...)

Its all part of Porsche's marketing.

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Aug 7, 2007 7:58:42 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: chuckd

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Quote:
chuckd said:
I've seen several threads questioning Porsche's performance figures recently:
-Carrera GT acceleration time (calling it a lie)
-Porche 997 gt3 0-100mph in 8.7 sec (not one performance test has shown that result.. more in the 9 sec area)
-997TT Porsche stated Ring time of 7:40 (differs greatly from Sport Auto's but is conveniently faster than both Corvette z06 times of 7:43 and 7:5x...)

Its all part of Porsche's marketing.

Interesting point. In former times Porsche was known for understatement. Obviously, times have changed a bit

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Aug 7, 2007 9:16:41 PM

Guy: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 135, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2003; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Rumor - WR turning 7:37's today in a GT2

Forget whether the times are accurate or not, there's simply no way Porsche would issue a press release or brochure that referred to any other manufacturers cars, let alone a Dodge Viper, which no-one in Europe cares about at all, or an SL's ring time which is an irrelevence.

Guy

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