Crown

She's a stunner Jamal, enjoy in good health!!!

bluelines:

No RC, I am not implying that Nick is getting old. Are you implying that Targas are for the seniors only? 

Actually...  Please don't get me wrong but over here, I see Targas in the hand of seniors...or those Porsche drivers who put polished shoes over driving experience, if you get my point. Yes, I am using stereotypes but this is something I learned from you when it comes to US politics.  

I believe Nick wanted a car which is more drivable and usable on the street. This one comes without a roof. A big plus over the GT models for many.

I never saw the problem with his GT3 (not sure if he had a lift or not though...). 

On the other hand, the new Targa (if he chooses the sport exhaust) sounds quite OK for a turbo and the throttle response isn't that bad in Sport Plus mode. Yes, it feels like a turbo engine but the massive torque may actually be a plus in US traffic.

To each his own, I guess but the new Targa is not a bad car at all, god beware. We are criticizing on a very high level, this is for sure and people have different tastes and preferences, so... 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSYdlm0CAuY

Christian, is the 918 a senior car? Targa's are the best top down looking cars that Porsche has ever produced. They scream classic Porsche. And yes I did order SE. FWIW, your Cabriolet screams "run of the mill" top down which has a hump back deformity. 

You should get the 991.2GT3. It will provide you with everything you looking for in a car. Have you driven one?

I have owned all types of Porsche's but never a Targa. It was on my bucket list. My next car will be the 991.2GT3RS. I changed my mind because once I saw the RS in the flesh and heard it, I said I have to have one. 

That said, I will l harbor the same complaints. It's useless on the public roads and highways but I need to scratch that itch.

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

Nick, my friend, you got the boxing gloves on now  A quick left, a quick right, followed by an uppercut. Knockout! 

I agree, there is one thing less appealing than polished shoes in an exotic Targa and that is polished shoes in a "run-of-the-mill" cabriolet 

I am sure you will love the Targa. Stylish roof-less driving in Cali 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

nberry:

Christian, is the 918 a senior car? Targa's are the best top down looking cars that Porsche has ever produced. They scream classic Porsche. And yes I did order SE. FWIW, your Cabriolet screams "run of the mill" top down which has a hump back deformity. 

The Targa may look classy but it certainly doesn't make the driver look younger.  It may be a prejudice but like I said, most Targa (actually all of them) drivers I know are over 60.  The 991 cabriolet looks pretty good in my opinion (tastes...I know), there is no visible hump anymore (the 997 looked stupid...) and the roof actually follows the car shape pretty well. Like I said...tastes...you cannot argue about them. 

You should get the 991.2GT3. It will provide you with everything you looking for in a car. Have you driven one?

I usually don't get to drive mules myself (with few exceptions), especially not GT models. I drove the GT3.1 and loved it. Same goes to the GT3 RS (had the chance to "deliver" one from Zuffenhausen to Munich, it was really fun). Yes, if money wouldn't be an issue, I would get myself a GT3 RS, no doubt about it. Unfortunately... 

I have owned all types of Porsche's but never a Targa. It was on my bucket list. My next car will be the 991.2GT3RS. I changed my mind because once I saw the RS in the flesh and heard it, I said I have to have one. 

I do not get the Targa and then GT3 RS thing but to each his own. The Targa is a nice Porsche but if you had a GT3, I doubt you are going to enjoy the Targa for a long time. This is why I suggested a cab, you get a more intensive open air experience. 

That said, I will l harbor the same complaints. It's useless on the public roads and highways but I need to scratch that itch.

Don't tell me about scratching that itch. I have so many itches now but neither my bank account nor my sanity agree with these itches.  First, 991 GT3 RS. Second, 911 R. Third, Lamborghini Huracan Spider. Fourth, 918. The sad part is that I could have gotten each of these cars without a major wait time or premium but I simply didn't and don't have the money. Kind of blew threw my car budget with the Panamera Turbo S and 911 Turbo S, so this is the consequence of being impatient and...quite frankly...a bit dumb.  I won't however put the future of my kids in danger for a car I desire. Never.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Christian , part of your problem is you lease cars. It makes it easier to change every couple years and in doing so you bleed money.

I took a brand new Targa out alone for over a almost an hour. I drove it in different traffic conditions and really enjoyed it. Totally different than the GT3 and slightly more expensive. But it was far and away more useful on San Diego road and highways.

Also, to claim that people over 60 are the only ones buying Targa's is one of your dumbest comments you have made but that's you.  The CGT and the 918 Porsche's super cars are Targa's. Where you get this crap is beyond me.That said, I could care less. I am very comfortable in my own skin. What people say or think of me means very little to me.

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

nberry:

Christian , part of your problem is you lease cars. It makes it easier to change every couple years and in doing so you bleed money.

Actually, I would bleed money if I'd buy my cars.  A new Porsche usually loses 30% of value instantly once you register it. My dealer has a 2013 Cayenne Turbo S with low mileage for half the money it costs new.

I took a brand new Targa out alone for over a almost an hour. I drove it in different traffic conditions and really enjoyed it. Totally different than the GT3 and slightly more expensive. But it was far and away more useful on San Diego road and highways.

I couldn't even compare a GT3 to a Targa, sorry... 

Also, to claim that people over 60 are the only ones buying Targa's is one of your dumbest comments you have made but that's you.  The CGT and the 918 Porsche's super cars are Targa's. Where you get this crap is beyond me.That said, I could care less. I am very comfortable in my own skin. What people say or think of me means very little to me.

The Targa is attracting a certain client group, especially in Europe. I haven't seen many young buyers (actually none) but this doesn't of course mean that young(er) customers would avoid it. Probably depends on taste, personal preferences, whatever but no potential GT3 buyers would choose a Targa instead and vice versa. I get my crap from various visits to dealerships, Porsche meets, events and so on. Of course I am wrong.  

Btw: My first Porsche was a 993 Targa. I only bought it because the dealer wanted to get rid of it and it was pretty cheap at that time (117k DM, brand-new...regular price was over 135k DM or so). I liked the Targa but it wasn't the right car for me, switched to a 996 Coupe and never looked back.

Also, neither the CGT or the 918 are a 911 Targa.  

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Christian, technically not Targa's but the same concept. Just look at the Rennlist site and tell me Targa buyers are seniors. FWIW, I can't believe I am having this discussion with you. This coming from a  guy that drivers around in a Shelby Mustang which only old farts in the US covet.

Regarding leases, your residuals are the same as depreciation on a sale. The difference is with a sale you have equity whereas with a lease you're pissing money away. Now if you have a business and deduct part of the lease payments then it would make sense to lease.

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

nberry:

Christian, technically not Targa's but the same concept. Just look at the Rennlist site and tell me Targa buyers are seniors. 

I was talking about Europe. In Europe, driving stick is nothing special, in the US it seems like some sort of manly thing.  Different mentalities, different realities, different perceptions...nothing new. 

FWIW, I can't believe I am having this discussion with you. This coming from a  guy that drivers around in a Shelby Mustang which only old farts in the US covet.

Well...try one...if you survive it, I buy you a beer.  Like I said before...different mentalities...and so on. In Europe, the Shelby GT500 is considered a legend and people love this car. In the US, probably not that much (I actually don't have a clue, I don't know anyone driving a Shelby in the US).

Regarding leases, your residuals are the same as depreciation on a sale. The difference is with a sale you have equity whereas with a lease you're pissing money away. Now if you have a business and deduct part of the lease payments then it would make sense to lease.

I explained it over and over again, most people over here lease expensive cars for a reason. We have mileage leasing here, not residual value leases. Of course the lease rates are based on a calculated residual value but still, it is different than in the US and lease offers are usually quite attractive over here. Most of the leases were deducted through my business but not all (Panamera) and I was lucky to be able to get some very nice offers because of my involvement with Rennteam and because I am a longtime customer. Buying these cars, I would have lost around 30k EUR more, I already did the math (based on the prices the cars achieved at the dealership...). Also, the dealer gets some sort of bonus for lease contracts, so he prefers them, if you get the drift. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Christian, I am lucky to survive a Prius.

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

RC, tunnel mounted stick shift sports cars have had more appeal in the US because of decades of domestic cars with very slow shifting automatics and even worse column mounted manuals. So floor mounted sticks were always seen as something better. It got into the foreign sports car culture and has stuck there, though now it is fading slowly. You would be hard pressed to even find one manual transmission drivers ed car in the US now.

Nicks right, your gen Shelby is definitely a nutjob purchase for old guys in the US, the new Shelby might become a different story unless the new Camaro ZL1 just obliterates it.

JimFlat6:

Nicks right, your gen Shelby is definitely a nutjob purchase for old guys in the US...

Boomshakalak! 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

bluelines:

JimFlat6:

Nicks right, your gen Shelby is definitely a nutjob purchase for old guys in the US...

Boomshakalak! 

Watch out... 

I'm 30 and plan on buying a used 911 (probably 997.2 or 991.1) at the end of the year. If I could choose a model without taking price into consideration, I would definitely pick the 991 Targa 4s. I love all 911s, but the Targa is just a work of art.
It's achingly beautiful! Unfortunately, it's also out of my price range... . 

BTW, I have just realized that I have been lurking on this forum for over 13 years. It's a strange notion that I might actually own one in the not so distant future... .

Nick, enjoy it! I will positively envy you. 



  

Tim, you have good taste and thanks for words of encouragement. 

FWIW, I was given a late May build date with delivery in July. Porsche just informed my dealer that it has been moved back to July with a September delivery. I told them that was nonsense and want my car moved back to the May date. My dealer is working with PCNA to see if this can be reversed.

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

Very strange discussion. I've never met an European who thinks a (new model) Mustang is cool.  Sorry RC, but around here (west europe) it's one of the worst cars to be seen in, Shelby or not.   Not even a contest to the targa in the image department. 

Boyko23:
^nice shoes, haha

These guys clearly put driving experience over polished shoes 

2015 981 Cayman GT4 | White | Full Bucket Seats | Sport Chrono
2014 991 Carrera 4S | Dark Blue Metallic | PDK | Sport Chrono | SPASM

Nick. I owned an 84 Targa and really enjoyed it even though the top back then was a bit noisy. Enjoy your purchase and I hope you get it together in July and not September. Fwiw I elected not to get the gt350r because of the zl1 Camaro and because I had a Mustang in high school. So did my daughter. I will leave it at that. 

Leawood911:

Nick. I owned an 84 Targa and really enjoyed it even though the top back then was a bit noisy. Enjoy your purchase and I hope you get it together in July and not September. Fwiw I elected not to get the gt350r because of the zl1 Camaro and because I had a Mustang in high school. So did my daughter. I will leave it at that. 

You have a 997 Turbo. What do you need a Camaro?

Of little, to make much: That is the dream of a human life.

I am not considering the Camaro but the voodoo engine in the gt350 was the temptations calling my name. Mostly as an investment by getting a stripped R version. The Camaro is likely to hurt the Mustangs resale or investment potential. I would use the turbo like I do now. As my daily driver. My bad weather car is an Azera. 

spudgun:

Very strange discussion. I've never met an European who thinks a (new model) Mustang is cool.  Sorry RC, but around here (west europe) it's one of the worst cars to be seen in, Shelby or not.   Not even a contest to the targa in the image department. 

I do not have a new Mustang and while I like the new Mustang, I do not necessarily think this car is cool.  The new V8 engine however is quite impressive, the tech is very advanced and the engine sounds amazing. The 350 is quite an offer for "little" money.

The GT500 is a different story though, this car is a beast (my car has 765 hp and 1056 Nm torque...). Many of you are talking about a car you don't even know and have never driven. In Germany and Switzerland, there is a huge fan base for the Shelby GT500 and many of the owners also own Porsche or other cars. The positive feedback I get with my GT500 in Germany exceeds any Porsche I have owned before, which was always very surprising to me. Also, many of the German and Swiss Shelby owners usually also own a Harley Davidson, one reason why Shelby and Harley clubs often share club meets and events.

Do not confuse the Shelby GT500 with a regular Mustang, two pairs of shoes.

Btw: I guess you're not a fan of the Fast and Furious movie franchise either? 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

RC:

Do not confuse the Shelby GT500 with a regular Mustang, two pairs of shoes.
--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

 

Last November I rented a "regular" Mustang in NYC. It was the worst car I've driven in a looooong time. The transmission, handling, interior, all terrible. Maybe because it was a rental, but I was very disappointed. 

--

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

993Targa:

RC:

Do not confuse the Shelby GT500 with a regular Mustang, two pairs of shoes.
--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

 

Last November I rented a "regular" Mustang in NYC. It was the worst car I've driven in a looooong time. The transmission, handling, interior, all terrible. Maybe because it was a rental, but I was very disappointed. 

I suspect it was not the GT (most rental companies have the V6 as a rental car and it uses the softer/comfort oriented chassis setup). The GT (V8) is actually quite OK in my opinion and most reviews in the German motor press seem to confirm this feeling. 

The GT500 has a live axle, completely different kind of beast and very scary at the limit. I got used to it but if you turn off the traction control, you're on your own. I did that twice only and both times, I deeply regretted it. Thanks god I am used to it. Not a fan of the live axle setup but you can still be insanely fast if you get used to it.

And the sound (exhaust/engine) is just... 

Watch this video (Nordschleife), stock(!) car and a 7:39 min. time (driver wasn't even the best...):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hiSgO7Jq3I

Another (German) video with a comparison to the RS5, pretty funny as well (if you understand German):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nplebbaNj7I

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

It was a V6, but still expected more than this. Maybe it is just the US setup 

2012 Cayenne S White/Espresso 

Ex: 993 Targa, 986S, 986 and 964 C2

993 Targa, You didnt know this so its not your fault, but what you actually rented was a real bitch box. All of those V6 Mustangs are set up for their market target....women who don't drive fast at all ever and rental companies that don't want their customers to drive aggressively at all.

So what you got was a understeering, wallowing mess of a car with crap throttle response and brakes that do not encourage use at speed.

Even the higher spec V8 GT models are understeering piles.

But if you could have driven a Shelby GT500, you would likely have had some near death experiences. Unless you are experienced with live axle handling characteristics and massive, near instant supercharger enhanced torque from throttle inputs you would have had a steep learning curve or been scraped off the pavement from diving into a curve and hitting the power at the wrong time on the way out. They are no joke.

The way RC's Shelby is set up it could be used at a weight loss clinic.Fat passengers could lose 5lbs into their pants with just one hard dash from 80kph to 250kph.

993Targa:

It was a V6, but still expected more than this. Maybe it is just the US setup 

The chassis for US cars, especially the V6, is very comfort oriented but there are packages you can add to make the ride sportier. The GT in Europe is quite OK (drive one, you'll be surprised, feels basically like a mixture between a C63 and the new M4, chassis-wise) but I had the chance to drive the 350 in Munich and this car is really good!

However, my GT500 (2014 model) has a live axle and this is really something you need to get used to. The ride is stiff, the steering quite direct (you can switch chassis and steering settings from N(normal) to S(port)) but in curves, you're better ready to catch the car if you're too fast. Body roll is also quite obvious, even if less intense than expected on such a car. The car also tends to "jump" when driving high speed on the Autobahn and this can be real fun at speeds over 300 kph.  Usually, I leave the chassis to the N(normal) setup when driving fast on the Autobahn, this is the best setting for high speed driving. Otherwise, the car really is too stiff and the tendency to "jump" (transpose) is much higher.

I wish Ford would build a Mustang with the chassis of the 350, the engine of the GT500 and AWD, it would be an amazing product.

Back to topic though. 991.2 Carrera. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet, Porsche Macan Turbo, Ford Mustang GT500 Shelby SVT (2014), Mini JCW (2015), Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT (2014)

Huh? 991.2? I thought this was the Boxster thread.

KMM:

Huh? 991.2? I thought this was the Boxster thread.

 

You will find the Boxster content in the Obama thread.

Those Germans doesn't know how to label threads.