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    Exhaust Tips

    Do the twin exhaust pipes of a 997 C2S fit straight onto a 997 c2 ?
    Also, is the PSE available for the C2?

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Quote:
    M4TTC said:
    Do the twin exhaust pipes of a 997 C2S fit straight onto a 997 c2 ?
    Also, is the PSE available for the C2?




    1. No ( 997 S exh. pipe is larger )
    2. Yes

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Can spacers be used to convert and make the C2s tips fit?

    Is the PSE for the C2 quieter than the C2S version

    Thanks for the advice

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    1. Yes , you can use a metal sleeve .
    2. The PSE is the same for all 997 models (and it comes with it's own tips )

    Get it. You will LOVE it . It's the best sounding exhaust by far. It should be standard as far as I am concened .

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Quote:
    M4TTC said:
    Do the twin exhaust pipes of a 997 C2S fit straight onto a 997 c2 ?
    Also, is the PSE available for the C2?



    Absolutely.

    Look at it this way:

    "Everything is Modular"

    Today designing modularly is the only way to mfgr things efficiently (i.e. actually make a profit or maximize profits). BTW, designing stuff to be "_fool_proof" in being put together and taken apart and maintained is also a big design priority in thes modern times.

    So you can bet "slap on" pieces like tail pipe trim and bumpers (and etc., etc., etc.,) will be interchangeable on all 997 cars. IOW, if there's no good reason they can't be interchangeable they WILL be interchangeable.

    Something like that... .

    Re: Exhaust Tips


    "Everything is Modular"

    Today designing modularly is the only way to mfgr things efficiently

    So you can bet "slap on" pieces like tail pipe trim and bumpers (and etc., etc., etc.,) will be interchangeable on all 997 cars.




    Don't bet on it .
    The 997 exhaust pipes are smaller than the 997 S ,so the 997 tips will not fit a 997 S.
    The 997 S dual tips CAN be adapted to the 997( with a sleeve ) because they are larger.
    And none of these tips can be installed onto the PSE exhaust pipes, which are totally different , because the PSE actually has true dual exhausts from each muffler .
    Nor can the PSE tips be adapted to either 997 or 997 S stock mufflers.
    So much for the 997 and 997 S models.

    The GT-3 ,Turbo , Boxter, Cayman etc. have totally different exhausts as well .

    ( Have you tried swapping a 997 GT-3 rear bumper onto a 997 or Turbo ?)

    "everything is NOT modular"

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Quote:
    jcs said:


    "everything is NOT modular"



    With all due respect, I also said:

    "IOW, if there's no good reason they can't be interchangeable they WILL be interchangeable. "

    Though I'm "shocked" 3.2 and 3.8 have different tubing diameters an engine expert would have to explain why. BTW, all the other differences you suggested about exhaust systems makes sense. There's nothing "anti-modular" in their design.

    The fact is one of the principal design/mfgr criteria for everything modern and mass produced is "modularity."

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    I can tell you that the Vertex/Schnell tips for a 997 WILL NOT fit a 997S. These tips LOOK LIKE the Fabspeed tips and cost $289 but they will not fit the larger S pipes from the muffler. Vertex will tell you they will fit so I bought them and found out the hard way. It's too bad because these are super nice tips.

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Though I'm "shocked" 3.2 and 3.8 have different tubing diameters an engine expert would have to explain why. their design.






    MMD,I hope you did not misunderstand my reply to your post . I did not intend to question your general statement regarding modular design .
    I merely wished to state that Porsche factory tips are not necessarily interchangeable , even for the same model/ series cars .

    Regarding why the exhaust pipes(and headers etc.) from the 997 and 997 S are different sizes:
    Porsche has spent countless hours ( years even ) engineering their exhausts and air intakes to arrive at the backpressures they consider optimal for each of their different engines ( per Porsche "Technik")

    I find it amusing that people spend 100k on a Porsche because they think it's one of the best engineered cars available.
    And then immediately proceed to rip out brand new exhausts and air intakes, believing that somehow they will get better performance from some aftermarket stuff.

    Apparently they trust the BS from backyard muffler welders more than they do the Porsche Engineers who have been continuously improving the performance of these cars for decades .
    Or perhaps they are under the impression that the exhaust and intake systems are deliberately screwed up by Porsche just to [beep] us off ?

    If someone wants a different exhaust sound, go ahead.
    But don't expect any performance gains. In fact, most times you wind up with just the opposite ("Butt" dyno tests not withstanding .Lol )

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Quote:
    jcs said:



    MMD,I hope you did not misunderstand my reply to your post . I did not intend to question your general statement regarding modular design .
    I merely wished to state that Porsche factory tips are not necessarily interchangeable , even for the same model/ series cars .




    Oops, I read into what you said.

    Anyway, no problem!

    It's not _my_ general statement, I'm just repeating something I read.

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    While I tend to agree that all the gains advertised for exhaust system swaps are suspect at best, there are many tuners here and abroad that feel the product they offer is superior to the Porsche-designed product - less weight, less backpressure, etc. I loved the PSE on my C4S but unfortunately the TT doesn't have that option so I am going to change exhaust. In addition to the better sound, I expect that lighter weight, less backpressure and lower temps for the turbos will improve performance but by how much I don't know and really don't care. Don't color all these guys as "backyard muffler welders" - looks to me that a lot of R&D work has gone into the products - Europipe, Tubi, Miltek, Fabspeed, AWE, Cargraphic, FVD and more - they can't all be working out of their garages.

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Quote:
    M4TTC said:
    Is the PSE for the C2 quieter than the C2S version




    Maybe. I don't know the technical data for the C2 but I have the data for the C2S and C2S + X51 (381 hp powerkit including PSE) that indicate that C2 + PSE might be quieter.
    Standing noise C2S + PSE: 99 dB (*)
    Standing noise C2S + X51: 102 dB

    (*) What is really strange is that a C2S without PSE also has 99 dB specified in its German registration documents and the above C2S didn't have the PSE retrofitted. Another strange thing is that the pass-by noise for C2S, C2S + PSE and C2S + X51 is specified with 75 dB for all 3 variants.
    Note that cars for the US or other markets might have different specifications than given above.

    Maybe someone with a C2 and factory fitted PSE can provide the missing data?

    BTW, if you think that your 997 PSE is loud a 996 C4S with PSE has 108 dB standing noise

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Quote:
    jcs said:

    I find it amusing that people spend 100k on a Porsche because they think it's one of the best engineered cars available.
    And then immediately proceed to rip out brand new exhausts and air intakes, believing that somehow they will get better performance from some aftermarket stuff.

    Apparently they trust the BS from backyard muffler welders more than they do the Porsche Engineers who have been continuously improving the performance of these cars for decades .
    Or perhaps they are under the impression that the exhaust and intake systems are deliberately screwed up by Porsche just to [beep] us off ?




    Fully agree. Porsche is incented to give us the best product they can for the best value they can while making the right profit, so that we will come back and buy more, and tell our friends so they will buy more. Will they get it exactly right each time? Of course not. Do they deliberately set out to 'cheat' us? I doubt it.

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Quote:
    Scotty A said:
    Quote:
    jcs said:

    I find it amusing that people spend 100k on a Porsche because they think it's one of the best engineered cars available.
    And then immediately proceed to rip out brand new exhausts and air intakes, believing that somehow they will get better performance from some aftermarket stuff.

    Apparently they trust the BS from backyard muffler welders more than they do the Porsche Engineers who have been continuously improving the performance of these cars for decades .
    Or perhaps they are under the impression that the exhaust and intake systems are deliberately screwed up by Porsche just to [beep] us off ?




    Fully agree. Porsche is incented to give us the best product they can for the best value they can while making the right profit, so that we will come back and buy more, and tell our friends so they will buy more. Will they get it exactly right each time? Of course not. Do they deliberately set out to 'cheat' us? I doubt it.




    You guys might relax just a little.

    Us$100K isn't that huge an amount of money for everyone.

    People should enjoy their hobbies. If that means waxing their cars and keeping them stock: great. If it means tearing into the brand new car: that's even more interesting

    As for Porsche? My bet is there're lots of pressures between engineering and marketing departments which result in compromises. In the end though, Porsche does what they want on these cars and fully expect MOST guys to accept it 1000 (1K) percent.

    It's nice there are a number of highly regarded tuners out there (Ruf, Gemballa etc) who can see the factory compromises and offer to reduce them.

    Some guys just like to tinker and..., for example..., put headers on the car. Keeping the factory warrenty intact isn't that big a deal.

    It's all good.


    Re: Exhaust Tips

    MMD:

    I agree. Porsche makes reasonable tradeoffs with the goal of selling the most cars and therefore making the most money. The better tuners simply offer the buyer a different set of tradeoffs: lower reliability for more power, better looks for hasher ride, better performance for more money, etc.

    Re: Exhaust Tips

    Quote:
    jcs said:
    1. Yes , you can use a metal sleeve .
    2. The PSE is the same for all 997 models (and it comes with it's own tips )

    Get it. You will LOVE it . It's the best sounding exhaust by far. It should be standard as far as I am concened .



    Any idea where I could get these sleeves from and the size needed?
    Cheers
    Matt

     
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