Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m - Page1

Jul 10, 2007 6:26:51 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

I like ALL food, I'll eat pretty much anything... exotic food, all veggies, anything...

I know people who simply WILL NOT eat vegetables, and I find them to be just as misguided and compulsive as the vegetarian crowd...

It's as if both sides are so obsessed with the image and lifestyle of being a sickly vegan, or a meat & potato dough-boy, that the reality of what they're doing becomes blurred and obscured. Not unlike how an anorexic looks in the mirror, and refuses to comprehend the reflection...

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Jul 10, 2007 6:56:05 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
69bossnine said:
I know people who simply WILL NOT eat vegetables, and I find them to be just as misguided and compulsive as the vegetarian crowd...

The difference is the meat crowd is not trying to force the vegetarians to give up eating vegetables and to eat meat instead. If you want to eat vegetables exclusively, just do it. I don't give a rat's a**.

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Jul 10, 2007 7:00:32 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
69bossnine said:Introducing children to a vegetarian diet is child abuse, I've seen too many children so-raised, and they either look like anemic death warmed-over, or they're just fat-asses. It's always one or the other....

Indeed, one thing is for an adult to pursue a vegetarian diet, but to bring it on a child who's body is still growing and in greater need of a real balanced and varied diet, is simply preposterous. The ignorance of the parents should not be allowed to infringe upon the health of their offspring

Just like those that think that McDonals is and adecuate part of a childs diet. Both extremes are equally sad.

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Jul 10, 2007 8:06:26 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6920, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: nberry

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
nberry said:
I have read all the objection regarding this proposed law but I have NOT read one good reason why cars should be allowed to travel at a rate over 100mph.

Educate me.

Let's see - the US highway system was designed to be able to evacuate cities during attack or disaster at speeds of 100+ - so in that case I will be wanting a car that can keep up.
Next, if someone is needing to be chased down - kidnapping my children or something like that, I will want to catch them in my 100+ mile per hour car.
Lastly, I might just be in a hurry. WTF, I am certain that someone asked why must be go more than 10MPH when cars first came out. You don't need an education. Give me a break.

In terms of killing animals. What do we do with all of them if we stop eating them???? Raise them as pets and then bury them? Perhaps we should kill them off right away so we will not need to keep killing them for generations.
The fact is that our consumption also gurantees their survival. You don't see chickens or cows on the endangered species list. The animals on the list are those which we do not raise for food.

I am not one to go out and hunt animals to just for sport or for food. We have butchers that do that and super markets. But lets get a grip, killing animals for food and eating them is not bad, wrong or cruel.

Time for dinner. I'm getting hungry for a giant steak.

Cheers...

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Jul 10, 2007 8:25:07 PM

Scotty A: Senior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 606, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
Leawood911 said:

Let's see - the US highway system was designed to be able to evacuate cities during attack or disaster at speeds of 100+ - so in that case I will be wanting a car that can keep up.

You're kidding, right? In the event a city has to be evacuated you will be going much closer to 1 mph than 100 mph.

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Jul 10, 2007 8:30:03 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Scotty A

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
Scotty A said:
Quote:
Leawood911 said:

Let's see - the US highway system was designed to be able to evacuate cities during attack or disaster at speeds of 100+ - so in that case I will be wanting a car that can keep up.

You're kidding, right? In the event a city has to be evacuated you will be going much closer to 1 mph than 100 mph.

Not if you're in the lead pack!!

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Jul 10, 2007 9:43:46 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Quote:
Scotty A said:
Quote:
Leawood911 said:

Let's see - the US highway system was designed to be able to evacuate cities during attack or disaster at speeds of 100+ - so in that case I will be wanting a car that can keep up.

You're kidding, right? In the event a city has to be evacuated you will be going much closer to 1 mph than 100 mph.

Not if you're in the lead pack!!

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Jul 10, 2007 10:21:09 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
69bossnine said:Introducing children to a vegetarian diet is child abuse, I've seen too many children so-raised, and they either look like anemic death warmed-over, or they're just fat-asses. It's always one or the other....

Indeed, one thing is for an adult to pursue a vegetarian diet, but to bring it on a child who's body is still growing and in greater need of a real balanced and varied diet, is simply preposterous. The ignorance of the parents should not be allowed to infringe upon the health of their offspring Just like those that think that McDonals is and adecuate part of a childs diet. Both extremes are equally sad.

I have heard all these arguments before. I suppose there are instances when parents do not adequate balance the diet of a young child which could lead to malnutrition. However, these are very rare occasions.

I am not trying to force anyone to become vegetarian. I am expounding the value and virtue of being one. This much a do know; we all would be healthier and happier if we abstained from eating meat. I know. I was a hearty meat eater.

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Jul 10, 2007 10:32:26 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
69bossnine said:Introducing children to a vegetarian diet is child abuse, I've seen too many children so-raised, and they either look like anemic death warmed-over, or they're just fat-asses. It's always one or the other....

Indeed, one thing is for an adult to pursue a vegetarian diet, but to bring it on a child who's body is still growing and in greater need of a real balanced and varied diet, is simply preposterous. The ignorance of the parents should not be allowed to infringe upon the health of their offspring Just like those that think that McDonals is and adecuate part of a childs diet. Both extremes are equally sad.

I have heard all these arguments before. I suppose there are instances when parents do not adequate balance the diet of a young child which could lead to malnutrition. However, these are very rare occasions.

I am not trying to force anyone to become vegetarian. I am expounding the value and virtue of being one. This much a do know; we all would be healthier and happier if we abstained from eating meat. I know. I was a hearty meat eater.

I eat a diet including everything and I'm the healthiest I've ever been. The difference that you see is probably due to you abandoning an unhealthy diet of meat and fats only, topped with some simple carbs and switched to a diet containing healthy veggies and fruits, along with eggs and milk. That is perfectly sound, but eating meat will not worsen your health. Extremes go both ways.

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Jul 10, 2007 11:37:30 PM

SonOfStig: Pilot; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 387, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: sdy284

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
sdy284 said:

or

it's an easy choice for me

Actually both look pretty gross to me. Artificial, even plastic. Probably full of some kind of nasty fertiliser which takes all the goodness out (Green thing at bottom) or hormones and antibotics (Brown / burnt thing at top).

Give me organic any day...

Oh no, THIS POINTLESS ARGUMENT HAS SUCKED ME IN, HOW DO I ESCAPE????

Beer anyone?

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Jul 11, 2007 2:12:02 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
Crash said:
The difference that you see is probably due to you abandoning an unhealthy diet of meat and fats only, topped with some simple carbs and switched to a diet containing healthy veggies and fruits, along with eggs and milk. That is perfectly sound, but eating meat will not worsen your health. Extremes go both ways.

You were thinking exactly what I was thinking... Man has lousy diet, crappy exercise ethic, makes radical lifestyle change including a healthier diet (regardless of how much meat is involved, if any..), and attributes the entire transformation to being a vegetarian....

I'd like to know of any world-class atheletes, in any sport requiring strength and stamina, that is a strict vegetarian...

Here ya go, a great way to prove your point..... We all know that atheletes on a world-stage level will do ANYTHING they can to gain an edge, and advantage, as long as it is legal within their sport and governing organizations. If being a vegetarian is so much healthier, then you would conclude that practically every world-class decathelete, sprinter, swimmer, football player, cyclist, etc... in the world would be adopting that lifestyle in the effort to exploit every advantage available to them... So, list them all out for me, these immensely healthy and strong and vibrant superhumans...

I've never heard of a training table that didn't have a meat selection on it... If there were an advantage, dietitians with many major professional sports teams would be jumping at that, regardless of their own personal diet, or personal ethics and beliefs, would they not? It'd be purely-business...

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Jul 11, 2007 3:17:12 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Quote:
Crash said:
The difference that you see is probably due to you abandoning an unhealthy diet of meat and fats only, topped with some simple carbs and switched to a diet containing healthy veggies and fruits, along with eggs and milk. That is perfectly sound, but eating meat will not worsen your health. Extremes go both ways.

You were thinking exactly what I was thinking... Man has lousy diet, crappy exercise ethic, makes radical lifestyle change including a healthier diet (regardless of how much meat is involved, if any..), and attributes the entire transformation to being a vegetarian....

I'd like to know of any world-class atheletes, in any sport requiring strength and stamina, that is a strict vegetarian...

Here ya go, a great way to prove your point..... We all know that atheletes on a world-stage level will do ANYTHING they can to gain an edge, and advantage, as long as it is legal within their sport and governing organizations. If being a vegetarian is so much healthier, then you would conclude that practically every world-class decathelete, sprinter, swimmer, football player, cyclist, etc... in the world would be adopting that lifestyle in the effort to exploit every advantage available to them... So, list them all out for me, these immensely healthy and strong and vibrant superhumans...

I've never heard of a training table that didn't have a meat selection on it... If there were an advantage, dietitians with many major professional sports teams would be jumping at that, regardless of their own personal diet, or personal ethics and beliefs, would they not? It'd be purely-business...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kristi16.htm

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Jul 11, 2007 3:42:47 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Nick, the link inside the website you reference doesn't work.

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Jul 11, 2007 4:10:56 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
69bossnine said:
I've never heard of a training table that didn't have a meat selection on it... If there were an advantage, dietitians with many major professional sports teams would be jumping at that, regardless of their own personal diet, or personal ethics and beliefs, would they not? It'd be purely-business...

There are plenty of vegan athletes... maybe not in football, athleletics, biathlon, hockey, powerlifting, etc. but I'm there are some in artistic gymnastics, darts, bowling, billiards, foosball, croquet to name a few

The hypocracy is that when you ask most vegans what they eat, turns out that in reality they are in fact onmivores like everyone else, eating dairy products, eggs, fish, etc. just limiting red meats, chicken, meat derivatives, etc. and do not commit to a true vegetarian diet.

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Jul 11, 2007 4:15:36 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

There was a very interesting series on the BBC a few months back called The Truth About Food. I remember Colin Jackson (the former 110m hurdler who held the World Record until recently) went on a vegetarian diet for 8 weeks. He is a very fit guy who instantly noticed the difference. He felt weaker.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/best/martialveggies.shtml

Unfit people (overweight with a poor diet) probably become healthier so the weakness is not so apparent. But in a finely tuned athlete like Colin Jackson who has still kept himself incredibly well toned, the difference was obvious to him.

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Jul 11, 2007 4:33:54 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Bodybuilding?.... BODYBUILDING???

Competitive bodybuilding is known to be one of the most unhealthy, and counterproductive "sports" extant... Besides, I work out amongst a group of those neurotic unhealthy freaks, and they can't hold a candle strenght-wise, pound for pound... Drives their egos crazy when they get out-lifted in the gym, but they're addicted, and can't tear themselves away from the goal, the routine, the powders, the shakes, the supplements, the drugs, the endless subscriptions to silly magazines, and the perceived status of having a monstrous yet rather ineffective physique...

One of the funniest moments of my life was at a Miami strip club, bachelor party, and there was this guy there who had to be a competitive bodybuilder, he was absolutely freakish, arms bigger than my legs, ripped as if his body-fat percentage was a negative figure, you get the picture. Cartoonish... We were drunk, and someone in our party just had to make a smart comment on the way out the door... Words exchanged, threats made, and I spur of the moment came out with, "hey, if you can beat my friend's kid brother here arm wrestling, we'll apologize, all of us..."

My friend Jeff's brother Clint, all 5'-11" 175 lbs of him, lanky, skinny looking, wearing baggy clothes, locked-in, and slowly pulled the giant down....

The guy never knew he just arm-wrestled the national gold-medalist in the Police Olympics, 150-190 lb class. In fact, Clint was so strong he took out the Florida heavyweight gold-medalist in an after-competition "for-fun" pull, after winning the Florida gold medal...

Just a funny story, that's all.... Bodybuilding, that's rich... I don't need the link to work, why don't you link me to a good competitive vegan pro wrestler while you're at it Nick???

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Jul 11, 2007 5:01:11 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
69bossnine said:
Bodybuilding?.... BODYBUILDING???

Competitive bodybuilding is known to be one of the most unhealthy, and counterproductive "sports" extant... Besides, I work out amongst a group of those neurotic unhealthy freaks, and they can't hold a candle strenght-wise, pound for pound... Drives their egos crazy when they get out-lifted in the gym, but they're addicted, and can't tear themselves away from the goal, the routine, the powders, the shakes, the supplements, the drugs, the endless subscriptions to silly magazines, and the perceived status of having a monstrous yet rather ineffective physique...

One of the funniest moments of my life was at a Miami strip club, bachelor party, and there was this guy there who had to be a competitive bodybuilder, he was absolutely freakish, arms bigger than my legs, ripped as if his body-fat percentage was a negative figure, you get the picture. Cartoonish... We were drunk, and someone in our party just had to make a smart comment on the way out the door... Words exchanged, threats made, and I spur of the moment came out with, "hey, if you can beat my friend's kid brother here arm wrestling, we'll apologize, all of us..."

My friend Jeff's brother Clint, all 5'-11" 175 lbs of him, lanky, skinny looking, wearing baggy clothes, locked-in, and slowly pulled the giant down....

The guy never knew he just arm-wrestled the national gold-medalist in the Police Olympics, 150-190 lb class. In fact, Clint was so strong he took out the Florida heavyweight gold-medalist in an after-competition "for-fun" pull, after winning the Florida gold medal...

Just a funny story, that's all.... Bodybuilding, that's rich... I don't need the link to work, why don't you link me to a good competitive vegan pro wrestler while you're at it Nick???

Agreed. I much prefer training for strength and endurance (a mix of powerlifting and calisthenics - quite productive, actually) and the size gains are nothing to sneeze at. The difference is that when you train for athletic performance, you want myofibrillar and sarcomeric hypertrophy, but bodybuilders mostly rely on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is just tissue, full of tiny capilares, not muscle fibers. Looks great, but I'd like to see one of those 250 lb guys do over 10 pull-ups.

I work with athletes and their coaches due to my business and I can tell you that even the few vegetarian athletes that I know will down massive amounts of casein and whey to replace the meats that their diets lack, along with creatine and mineral supplements. Nevertheless, most just give in and start eating meat, unless they are not serious about results.

Anyway, I gotta run. Boarding for Brussels is in 10 minutes and I'm sitting on my ass in the airport lounge, discussing vegetarian nutjobs

.

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Jul 11, 2007 5:09:29 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

I don't take supplements in any way shape of form... Hell, I don't even do a multi-vitamin... I rely on a well-rounded diet. Not into popping pills to compensate for poor nutrition... But hey, that's me.

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Jul 11, 2007 5:27:55 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Nick, the link inside the website you reference doesn't work.

Alan here is a link to look at. 69bossline and Carlos just don't get it. Hey, people can eat meat all the way to their grave. It is no skin of my back. But while doing so, at least get the facts right.

http://www.alphaomegafood.com/vegetarian_athletes.htm

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Jul 11, 2007 5:46:18 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

The next time you're rolling down the freeway at 75 mph and a deer hits the front of your car, talk to me about being a vegetarian. I'll take my venison medium rare! The proliferation of these creatures is causing more trouble,--abolish the tree huggers! We need more hunters!

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Jul 11, 2007 6:21:27 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
SoCal Alan said:
Nick, the link inside the website you reference doesn't work.

Alan here is a link to look at. 69bossline and Carlos just don't get it. Hey, people can eat meat all the way to their grave. It is no skin of my back. But while doing so, at least get the facts right.

http://www.alphaomegafood.com/vegetarian_athletes.htm

Nick, with all due respect, that list, and the others I've seen on the web are all very short and most of the athletes I've heard about on those lists are long since retired. Also, it's more likely that they've changed to vegetarianism after they retired from their sport. There's no evidence that they were vegetarians while they were competing at the top of their sport. I'd like to know if there are any top athletes today that have a strict vegetarian diet and are competing at the highest level of their sport.

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Jul 11, 2007 6:54:31 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Alan, about 12-15% of the world population are vegetarians. Therefore, it would be difficult to compare the number of vegetarian athletes with carnivore athletes.

I am confident as studies continue to show the efficacy of the vegetarian diet, we will see more of these athletes.

It is important not to overlook the enhanced mental acuity component of a vegetarian diet.

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Jul 11, 2007 7:19:23 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
nberry said:
Alan, about 12-15% of the world population are vegetarians.

Meat products are much more expensive than grain and such, and being that most of the world population is the third world, its not hard to figure out why. But there is a differenmce between voluntarily being a vegetarian, than being forced to be one because you can't afford it.

Quote:
nberry said:It is important not to overlook the enhanced mental acuity component of a vegetarian diet.

I guess thats why we owe our prodigious brain to the fact that our ancestors introduced meat into their diets at a point in time and left their vegetarian diets, it gave them the protein and energy to develop and maintain a bigger brain, and thats when brain size started to grow in our hominid lineage, before that it was the same size as current apes. Our brain is only 2% of our body weight but consumes 20% of our body's enery consumption.

If you eat junk food and sugar all day your cognitive performance will suffer compared to a vegetarian diet, but not if you come from a balanced omnivore diet, which is more nutrient complete than limiting yourself to just vegetables. For example, low iron intake has been asso with lower academic performace in kids and the most bioavailable source of Iron is meat products...

Personally I'll take a human's brain over an ape's brain any day

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Jul 11, 2007 7:49:34 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Carlos,--thanks for reminding them about the association between brain development and diet. Without it we would still be grazing on the plains of Africa.

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Jul 11, 2007 8:11:15 PM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: Dan L

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Psychogenic vegetarians (that is, not motivated by specific and rare medical restriction) always come across as an emotionally deviant lot-many have eating disorders and their aversion to meat consumption is a symptom of this (usually there is a phobia to ingesting fat), not a moral position, but rather an irrational rejection of, as Carlos points out, our biologically determined appetite to eat meat.

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Jul 11, 2007 8:16:35 PM

Damian: Senior; Loc: Pa, USA; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 10, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

There are some intelligent folks here.. I was unenlightened about psychogenic vegetarians until reading Turbo Al's post!

Quote:
nberry said:..
It only proves what I have been stating that we were born herbivores and since changing to omnivores our health has deteriorated.

Let's go back to the good ol' days before our health deteriorated? In 1850, average U.S. male life expectancy was 42 years! (Source: U.S. Dept.Of Commerce) Bravo for modern medicine & agricultural/distribution advancements!

Instead of turning back the clock, let's do the opposite and work on exporting the positive benefits of development to parts of the world still tragically susceptible to famine and lacking medical care. (i can hear the retort coming...no, by positive I'm not talking about a McDonald's diet for every Rwandan villager--instead how about water purification tech...)

Nick- thanks for providing fodder for conversation but issue-advocacy websites are NOT credible sources of data!

One piece of credible data is that in 2006, for the first time in the history of the U.S., the number of absolute deaths from cancer went down by 10,200. (source: CDC). That's ABSOLUTE deaths, meaning no adjustment for population basis. ...sure you'll extract a black cloud from any silver lining cited.. oh, well.

p.s. my omnivorous, bacon-frying, disease-free 93-year-old grandmother just emailed Dennis Vegan Kucinich's congressional office, challenging him to an arm-wrestling match.

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Jul 11, 2007 8:35:50 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: SonOfStig

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
SonOfStig said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
AUM said:
Soya milk and other healthy and more efficient alternatives are readily available.

They are currently readily available only because there is so little demand for them.
If half the world's population were to suddenly start eating tofu it would probably lead to the First Soya War.
We are already seeing what an attempted conversion to ethanol fuel is doing to the supply of agricultural products.

Look I don't want to get involved in this food fight (I'm with the Boss on this one), but the argument that Soy and the like are more available because of low demand is contrary to all the laws of supply and demand - that I'm aware of, at least.

Rest assured that I am familiar with and fully understand the law of supply and demand.

Let me put it another way so that you better understand my intended meaning:
Current supply and demand for soy beans are fairly balanced at a low level, so you can walk into any supermarket and stock up with soy beans.
If a sizeable proportion of the world's population were to convert "overnight" from eating meat to soya products, supply could not keep up in the short term for obvious reasons and might not even be able to catch up in the long term due to soy beans not being able to grow in all climates, at all altitudes and on all the soils currently devoted to growing livestock for meat.

Hence my statement implying that a sudden change in demand could not be matched by an adequate change in supply, leading to the unbalanced market we are currently seeing resulting from a fairly small shift to using more agricuiltural products to make ethanol for fuels, instead of as food or animal fodder.

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Jul 11, 2007 8:44:18 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Carlos from Spain

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Alan, about 12-15% of the world population are vegetarians.

Meat products are much more expensive than grain and such, and being that most of the world population is the third world, its not hard to figure out why. But there is a differenmce between voluntarily being a vegetarian, than being forced to be one because you can't afford it.

Quote:
nberry said:It is important not to overlook the enhanced mental acuity component of a vegetarian diet.

I guess thats why we owe our prodigious brain to the fact that our ancestors introduced meat into their diets at a point in time and left their vegetarian diets, it gave them the protein and energy to develop and maintain a bigger brain, and thats when brain size started to grow in our hominid lineage, before that it was the same size as current apes. Our brain is only 2% of our body weight but consumes 20% of our body's enery consumption.

If you eat junk food and sugar all day your cognitive performance will suffer compared to a vegetarian diet, but not if you come from a balanced omnivore diet, which is more nutrient complete than limiting yourself to just vegetables. For example, low iron intake has been asso with lower academic performace in kids and the most bioavailable source of Iron is meat products...

Personally I'll take a human's brain over an ape's brain any day

Carlos will your child become a vegetarian? Despite your resistance, my hunch she/he may become one.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=59220

Damian, don't confuse advances in medicine with better health. The reasons why cancer rates are down today are awareness, early detection and medical advancement. If anything, our diets are keeping doctors busier today as and taxing our health system.

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Jul 11, 2007 9:28:21 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21149, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
nberry said:
Carlos will your child become a vegetarian? Despite your resistance, my hunch she/he may become one.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=59220

I would like her brain to grow of human size not ape size

and be happy and healthy... not a pale weak cellulose munching automaton... you see it in the animal world too, have you seen how sad the cows look when they are grazing on the boring green stuff? then look at how happy you dog gets when you show him a steak!

Take this study with a grain of salt

the way it was made it was good for media headlines but no scientific conclusion could be drawn since too many variables for the result we open to draw any type of coorelation. Besides, like I mentioned earlier, what they considered vegetarian included an omnivore diet with chicken and fish, and these accounted for most of the subjects grouped into the vegetarian category. The real vegans were very few and since high IQ has been thought to be linked with higher incidence of eating disorders too like anorexia, this may explain the vegans part

The best proven diet is the omnivorous mediterranean diet

and that she will have

Besides Nick, don't vegans drive Volvos or Prius?

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Jul 17, 2007 12:06:37 AM

SonOfStig: Pilot; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 387, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: New EU cars after 2012 to be incapable of 101m

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
SonOfStig said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
AUM said:
Soya milk and other healthy and more efficient alternatives are readily available.

They are currently readily available only because there is so little demand for them.
If half the world's population were to suddenly start eating tofu it would probably lead to the First Soya War.
We are already seeing what an attempted conversion to ethanol fuel is doing to the supply of agricultural products.

Look I don't want to get involved in this food fight (I'm with the Boss on this one), but the argument that Soy and the like are more available because of low demand is contrary to all the laws of supply and demand - that I'm aware of, at least.

Rest assured that I am familiar with and fully understand the law of supply and demand.
Let me put it another way so that you better understand my intended meaning:
Current supply and demand for soy beans are fairly balanced at a low level, so you can walk into any supermarket and stock up with soy beans.
If a sizeable proportion of the world's population were to convert "overnight" from eating meat to soya products, supply could not keep up in the short term for obvious reasons and might not even be able to catch up in the long term due to soy beans not being able to grow in all climates, at all altitudes and on all the soils currently devoted to growing livestock for meat.

Hence my statement implying that a sudden change in demand could not be matched by an adequate change in supply, leading to the unbalanced market we are currently seeing resulting from a fairly small shift to using more agricuiltural products to make ethanol for fuels, instead of as food or animal fodder.

Hi Fritz. Yes I think we agree on that. I also think that making ethanol from corn is maybe not a good idea as it burns more from production than it gives from putting into the petrol ? How do companies justify this - is it subsidies from the government or something ?

Cheers,

SoS.

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