Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Cargraphic powerkit - Page1

Jun 21, 2007 3:07:08 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005

Cargraphic powerkit

Hi guys,

I know a few of you have installed the Cargraphic/RS-Tuning exhaust system on your 997 Turbos, but I was wondering if anyone had gone further and added a powerkit with it?

Powerkit 1 looks pretty good to me:

http://www.cargraphic.com/index.php?/s,6,7,18,2987,2988,3103/

Nice jump in torque!

I am making some enquiries to the UK importer (Parr) as this is a route I may take next year if Porsche hasn't brought out its own Powerkit by then.

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Jun 21, 2007 3:47:18 PM

AAHTT: Senior; Loc: san diego , United States; Posts: 654, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 21, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
Alex (UK) said:
Hi guys,

I know a few of you have installed the Cargraphic/RS-Tuning exhaust system on your 997 Turbos, but I was wondering if anyone had gone further and added a powerkit with it?

Powerkit 1 looks pretty good to me:

http://www.cargraphic.com/index.php?/s,6,7,18,2987,2988,3103/

Nice jump in torque!

I am making some enquiries to the UK importer (Parr) as this is a route I may take next year if Porsche hasn't brought out its own Powerkit by then.

The jump in torque is nice and predictable but the jump in HP is kind of mediocre (+62hp) after all 3 components upgrades.
I have the loud CG exhaust and recently added the sport filter above (BMC). My ecu was tuned more aggressively here in the US and my total cost was a lot less than 8000 euros including 2 of the 3 components.
I am very happy with the exhaust and the filter in combination with my tune, the car runs like a champ.

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Jun 21, 2007 4:12:17 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

The hp curve is rather flat between 5000/min and 7000/min

This should result in quite attractive acceleration times...

BTW: The hp/torque chart describes the engine/exhaust kit and not just the exhaust kit

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Jun 21, 2007 4:18:15 PM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: AAHTT

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Just got this email back from Parr:

Quote:

As it would happen we have just completed a 997 Turbo this morning, please find attached pics. The car was fitted with the power kit 1, Racing Headers and progressive rate lowering springs. I can say hand on heart that the transformation is eye opening and makes the car so much more involving. I drove the car before and after and while the car in standard trim is effortlessly rapid the upgrades just make the car so much more responsive with phenomenal torque/power increases and good exhaust/Turbocharger/Induction noise. We fitted the TETR silencer on this particular Turbo, which is the middle option of 3 sound levels and provides a sporty exhaust note while not suffering from resonance at cruising engine speeds. It's a very impressive upgrade as the performance figures indicate and I can assure you it will not disappoint.

Hmmm, tempting...

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Jun 21, 2007 9:20:11 PM

LAT: Co-Pilot; Loc: Canada , Canada; Posts: 164, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 4, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

What is the price of the ECU mod? I already have the exhaust.

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Jun 24, 2007 4:12:21 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: AAHTT

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
aah986 said:
Quote:

The jump in torque is nice and predictable but the jump in HP is kind of mediocre (+62hp) after all 3 components upgrades.
I have the loud CG exhaust and recently added the sport filter above (BMC). My ecu was tuned more aggressively here in the US and my total cost was a lot less than 8000 euros including 2 of the 3 components.
I am very happy with the exhaust and the filter in combination with my tune, the car runs like a champ.

The +62hp may not look much but it is RS Tuning engine dyno power. It is the maximum Porsche type hp which the VVTs can produce when fully hot/loaded.

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Jun 24, 2007 6:14:31 PM

AAHTT: Senior; Loc: san diego , United States; Posts: 654, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 21, 2006; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
aah986 said:
Quote:

The jump in torque is nice and predictable but the jump in HP is kind of mediocre (+62hp) after all 3 components upgrades.
I have the loud CG exhaust and recently added the sport filter above (BMC). My ecu was tuned more aggressively here in the US and my total cost was a lot less than 8000 euros including 2 of the 3 components.
I am very happy with the exhaust and the filter in combination with my tune, the car runs like a champ.

The +62hp may not look much but it is RS Tuning engine dyno power. It is the maximum Porsche type hp which the VVTs can produce when fully hot/loaded.

If you say so

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Jun 25, 2007 6:24:19 PM

bob997tt: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 33, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2007; Reply to: AAHTT

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

OK, I'm interested! Group buy anyone? I'd be interested to see how they compare to my current shortlist - Ray West and DMS.

Only thing that worries me slightly (apart from the warranty issue!) is their website is claiming a whole series of conversions, culminating in a 687bhp version! Isn't it early days to have done that sort of tried and tested development?

More news most welcome! On the Audi forum I use, a gang is collecting a list to go to DMS for their RS4s. They seem to get nothing but praise, although quite a bit more dough. Think it's 5k for the 997tt, not sure what the exaust system is.

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Jun 26, 2007 7:38:09 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: AAHTT

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
aah986 said:
Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
aah986 said:
Quote:

The jump in torque is nice and predictable but the jump in HP is kind of mediocre (+62hp) after all 3 components upgrades.
I have the loud CG exhaust and recently added the sport filter above (BMC). My ecu was tuned more aggressively here in the US and my total cost was a lot less than 8000 euros including 2 of the 3 components.
I am very happy with the exhaust and the filter in combination with my tune, the car runs like a champ.

The +62hp may not look much but it is RS Tuning engine dyno power. It is the maximum Porsche type hp which the VVTs can produce when fully hot/loaded.

If you say so

Don't be condescending. It is the maximum that the engine will put out reliably under every type of load. That means Autobahn driving, something which you don't have in the land of 55 mph speed limits .

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Jun 26, 2007 7:39:24 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: bob997tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
bob997tt said:
OK, I'm interested! Group buy anyone? I'd be interested to see how they compare to my current shortlist - Ray West and DMS.

Only thing that worries me slightly (apart from the warranty issue!) is their website is claiming a whole series of conversions, culminating in a 687bhp version! Isn't it early days to have done that sort of tried and tested development?

More news most welcome! On the Audi forum I use, a gang is collecting a list to go to DMS for their RS4s. They seem to get nothing but praise, although quite a bit more dough. Think it's 5k for the 997tt, not sure what the exaust system is.

The 687 bhp version is basically the Alzen race car engine with SECAM intercoolers and all the works. The finest you can buy for the car, but no VTGs. The 618 bhp version on the other hand uses VTGs.

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Jun 26, 2007 9:37:25 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: bob997tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
bob997tt said:
OK, I'm interested! Group buy anyone? I'd be interested to see how they compare to my current shortlist - Ray West and DMS.

Only thing that worries me slightly (apart from the warranty issue!) is their website is claiming a whole series of conversions, culminating in a 687bhp version! Isn't it early days to have done that sort of tried and tested development?

More news most welcome! On the Audi forum I use, a gang is collecting a list to go to DMS for their RS4s. They seem to get nothing but praise, although quite a bit more dough. Think it's 5k for the 997tt, not sure what the exaust system is.

DMS buys in"maps" from the grey market and more recently has taken to tweaking them via a chassis dyno. This is not the same as the race proven stuff which RS develop and Cargraphic market.
The 687hp "kit" can be done on the 996tt and 997tt and is a fully reworked tt engine -to the tune of 110K Euros

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Jun 26, 2007 9:44:00 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
bob997tt said:
OK, I'm interested! Group buy anyone? I'd be interested to see how they compare to my current shortlist - Ray West and DMS.

Only thing that worries me slightly (apart from the warranty issue!) is their website is claiming a whole series of conversions, culminating in a 687bhp version! Isn't it early days to have done that sort of tried and tested development?

More news most welcome! On the Audi forum I use, a gang is collecting a list to go to DMS for their RS4s. They seem to get nothing but praise, although quite a bit more dough. Think it's 5k for the 997tt, not sure what the exaust system is.

DMS buys in"maps" from the grey market and more recently has taken to tweaking them via a chassis dyno. This is not the same as the race proven stuff which RS develop and Cargraphic market.
The 687hp "kit" can be done on the 996tt and 997tt and is a fully reworked tt engine -to the tune of 110K Euros

Basically, the equivalent to Ruf's Rt12 engine...

P.S.: Are you aware of the warranty conditions available for this 687hp car?

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Jun 26, 2007 10:33:26 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
MKSGR said:

P.S.: Are you aware of the warranty conditions available for this 687hp car?

1.) Not responsible for injury or death in an explosion.
2.) Not responsible for injury or death by fire.
3.) Not responsible for rear of the car melting from all the heat.
4.) Not responsible for any engine damage, which occurs while vehicle is moving.

Is this it?

But seriously, what are the conditions?

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Jun 26, 2007 11:42:10 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Standard RS Tuning warranty is:
No guarantee for racing, For road use 6 months guarantee with a maximum of 10000km.....
So pretty useless compared to a Ruf warranty....
I am biased but would say that this is not an "equivalent" of the RT12 engine.
An RS Tuning 569hp/770NM 996 turbo weighing 1600kg was timed 100-300kph at 20.9s. and 219mph
The 650hp/870NM 1500kg RT12 which was tested at Nardo did the same sprint in 21.9s

The 687hp RS engine has the Secan intercoolers(which is exclusive RS technolgy AFAIK) in addition to all the "special" parts which RS develop during their race program through affiliations with KKK race and the like -it will be scary fast but at a scary price and you won't get looked after for more than 6 months

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Jun 26, 2007 12:17:02 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Standard RS Tuning warranty is:
No guarantee for racing, For road use 6 months guarantee with a maximum of 10000km.....
So pretty useless compared to a Ruf warranty....
I am biased but would say that this is not an "equivalent" of the RT12 engine.
An RS Tuning 569hp/770NM 996 turbo weighing 1600kg was timed 100-300kph at 20.9s. and 219mph
The 650hp/870NM 1500kg RT12 which was tested at Nardo did the same sprint in 21.9s

The 687hp RS engine has the Secan intercoolers(which is exclusive RS technolgy AFAIK) in addition to all the "special" parts which RS develop during their race program through affiliations with KKK race and the like -it will be scary fast but at a scary price and you won't get looked after for more than 6 months

What about the "lesser" packages then? 598 or 618 bhp with VTGs. What are the prices and warranty?

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Jun 26, 2007 12:28:07 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Standard RS Tuning warranty is:
No guarantee for racing, For road use 6 months guarantee with a maximum of 10000km.....
So pretty useless compared to a Ruf warranty....
I am biased but would say that this is not an "equivalent" of the RT12 engine.
An RS Tuning 569hp/770NM 996 turbo weighing 1600kg was timed 100-300kph at 20.9s. and 219mph
The 650hp/870NM 1500kg RT12 which was tested at Nardo did the same sprint in 21.9s

The 687hp RS engine has the Secan intercoolers(which is exclusive RS technolgy AFAIK) in addition to all the "special" parts which RS develop during their race program through affiliations with KKK race and the like -it will be scary fast but at a scary price and you won't get looked after for more than 6 months

The Rt12 with a max-speed of 330kph (shorter gearing) does 0-300 in about 23s. Would you expect the 687hp version of RS to be quicker? If so, by how much? And... why?

Personally, I would not expect any quality differences between RS and Ruf. Thus, why should the cars perform differently with simlar hp output?

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Jun 26, 2007 12:44:34 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Well the 569 RS car was as quick as the RT12 in the sprint between 100 to 300kph (despite being heavier) so one could assume that the RS 687 engine with another 100hp would be even quicker -my guess would be 100-300kph in ~16.5s for a ~1600kg tt.

Ruf makes great "complete" road cars, RS makes the worlds best Porsche race engines. You don't see many "Powered by Ruf" stickers on race Porsches do you ?

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Jun 26, 2007 12:50:58 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Well the 569 RS car was as quick as the RT12 in the sprint between 100 to 300kph (despite being heavier) so one could assume that the RS 687 engine with another 100hp would be even quicker

The problem with this logic could be: who knows whether the "569" RS car really had 569hp? It is quite easy to tweak the turbo engines and have more than 569hp...

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Jun 26, 2007 12:53:18 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Well the 569 RS car was as quick as the RT12 in the sprint between 100 to 300kph (despite being heavier) so one could assume that the RS 687 engine with another 100hp would be even quicker -my guess would be 100-300kph in ~16.5s for a ~1600kg tt.

Ruf makes great "complete" road cars, RS makes the worlds best Porsche race engines. You don't see many "Powered by Ruf" stickers on race Porsches do you ?

BTW: <20s 0-300 for a 690hp Porsche? Remember the Veyron does 0-300 in about 18s - with 1001hp...

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Jun 26, 2007 12:54:49 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
Crash said:

What about the "lesser" packages then? 598 or 618 bhp with VTGs. What are the prices and warranty?

The 598 kit is listed by CG at 17K Euro
My guess would be same warranty 6month/10k max !
If you were to ask RS about the (how do I put it politely) "Limited" warranty you would be told of the hundreds of engines they have running for many thousands km with no issues - this is true and they have this as a reputation. Try booking your car in with them and prepare for a wait....
The key to long life on these engines is in heat management which at over the 500hp level becomes critical with oval bores and melted heads a "knock" away -All RS engines are mapped in the same way as the race engines they do.

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Jun 26, 2007 1:00:28 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
MKSGR said: It is quite easy to tweak the turbo engines and have more than 569hp...

This is where I would have to disagree - easy to tweak for a chassis dyno reading, hard to make the power hang around during a 300kph run.....What is interesting with the 569hp 996tt is its 0-200 was about 12s so not particularly fast (heavy car) but it made the time up between 200-300kph (bad tuning heat soak territory)
You could be right about my estimate 0-300, possibly closer to 20-22s ? A lot depends on weight/gearing/aero

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Jun 26, 2007 1:05:24 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

MKSGR
I just checked the numbers:
569 RS 200-300kph 12.8s
RT12 200-300kph 15s
This is where things are getting hot.....

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Jun 26, 2007 1:08:58 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
MKSGR said: It is quite easy to tweak the turbo engines and have more than 569hp...

This is where I would have to disagree - easy to tweak for a chassis dyno reading, hard to make the power hang around during a 300kph run.....What is interesting with the 569hp 996tt is its 0-200 was about 12s so not particularly fast (heavy car) but it made the time up between 200-300kph (bad tuning heat soak territory)
You could be right about my estimate 0-300, possibly closer to 20-22s ? A lot depends on weight/gearing/aero

12s for 0-200? Do you know which gearing they used for the test car? 569hp and a max-speed of just 310kph or so could help explain the 100-300 figure you mentioned above...

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Jun 26, 2007 1:11:26 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
MKSGR
I just checked the numbers:
569 RS 200-300kph 12.8s
RT12 200-300kph 15s
This is where things are getting hot.....

BTW: RC had a 996TT with 542hp kit by RS... The car was light years away from the figures you quote here. Honestly, I guess RS has tweaked the numbers they showed you

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Jun 26, 2007 1:15:10 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
MKSGR said:
12s for 0-200? Do you know which gearing they used for the test car? 569hp and a max-speed of just 310kph or so could help explain the 100-300 figure you mentioned above...

It achieved 350kph - I've no idea on the gearing but presume 350kph suggests at least a longer 6th ?
I know FlatSix mag also tested this car and got a 7.9s 100-200kph time which validates the 0-200kph in ~12s

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Jun 26, 2007 1:18:17 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
MKSGR said:
BTW: RC had a 996TT with 542hp kit by RS... The car was light years away from the figures you quote here. Honestly, I guess RS has tweaked the numbers they showed you

Well the SportAuto test on the GT2 with the 542 package was also pretty fast, 100-300kph 24.8s and 200-300kph in 17.8s with a top speed 330kph.......
RS did not give me these numbers, they were from a test done by Hans-Jurgen Tucherer

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Jun 26, 2007 1:19:24 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: AAHTT

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Torque is the crucial element regarding transmission and powertrain - as good as it looks I wouldn't opt for too much torque if you want an reliable and daily useable car.
Apart from that the dyno graph seems to be tweaked, that is definately not the original readout since torque and hp graphs don't correspond perfectly.

Just my very personal two cents.

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Jun 26, 2007 1:20:07 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
12s for 0-200? Do you know which gearing they used for the test car? 569hp and a max-speed of just 310kph or so could help explain the 100-300 figure you mentioned above...

It achieved 350kph - I've no idea on the gearing but presume 350kph suggests at least a longer 6th ?
I know FlatSix mag also tested this car and got a 7.9s 100-200kph time which validates the 0-200kph in ~12s

Why was RC's car so much slower then (with just 20hp less)? Honestly, these numbers of RS cannot be achieved by a 569hp car

Another hint: sportauto once tested a RS GT2 (!) version with 540hp or so. The car did 0-300 in ca. 30s with less weight an RWD...

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Jun 26, 2007 1:28:18 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Quote:
TB993tt said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
BTW: RC had a 996TT with 542hp kit by RS... The car was light years away from the figures you quote here. Honestly, I guess RS has tweaked the numbers they showed you

Well the SportAuto test on the GT2 with the 542 package was also pretty fast, 100-300kph 24.8s and 200-300kph in 17.8s with a top speed 330kph.......
RS did not give me these numbers, they were from a test done by Hans-Jurgen Tucherer

There we are... The shorter gearing (you mention a max speed of 330kph) reduces 0-300 by about 2s, RWD vs. AWD reduces 0-300 by another 2s (both numbers based on Ruf information).

Thus, a TT with the sportauto engine but AWD and a max speed of 350kph would do 0-300 in well above 30s, maybe 33s or so.

This confirms my point: the numbers they told you must be wrong. Probably invented by RS' markeing department

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Jun 26, 2007 1:34:13 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

It is certainly difficult to accurately determine this stuff - as I said, the aero/weight/gearing can completely skew things.
How much power do you think the tt in the graph below has, it is running 2WD at 1470kg with 993GT2 bodywork sans rear bi plane.....
In case you can't make it out 100-250kph in 12.44s.
For reference the RT12 did it in 12s dead running weight unknown....

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Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

Re: Cargraphic powerkit

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