Crown

noone1:

SciFrog:

Hybrid systems on SUV save nothing on my first hand experience. Torque? V8 bi turbo has plenty of it.

Shitty system. You need at least 50 miles of electric range. That will drop fuel usage substantially since that would cover the vast majority of day-to-day driving.

Naturally it would still use a bunch of fuel on long trips.

Full EV with 300 to 400 miles of range would be best

 

Why the need to have such a long EV range? Pointless. 

EV mode is only good for bumper to bumper traffic to keep the car system running. And silent driving in and out of quiet neighbourhoods.  Plus the benefit of getting to use car pool lanes and avoid congestion charges. 

15-20 miles range is perfectly good enough. The e-motor can provide performance boost as needed when it is not in eco mode. Just like how Porsche do their hybrids, and they are the only manufacturer that got it right.

A gas powered engine is still perfectly fine as a propulsion unit. A hybrid is best of both world. Gets the benefits of a EV while preserving the sound and feel of a gasoline powered car. 

--

Because a big part of having an EV is not needing to get gas.

noone1:

Because a big part of having an EV is not needing to get gas.

And a big part of having a EV is that it cannot be conveniently 'refuelled' everywhere. Until technology catches up and make recharging an EV around the same time as refuelling a car and having charing stations as common as gas stations, it will still carry that piece of baggage on it's back.

noone1:

Because a big part of having an EV is not needing to get gas.

And a big part of gas is not needing to plug the car and wait till it charges. A "driver's" hybrid is a gas powered car with a not too heavy and big electric-motor/batteries to help in the situations described by Nick. A boring people mover's hybrid is an electric engine with a small gas engine to help out where EV fails. And Porsche makes driver's cars, so if you are looking for the latter then look elsewhere.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

No reason to ruin the party for the rest of us. You can buy your 10 mpg petrol model and leave the EVs to us who can charge our phones at night. 

Whoopsy:

noone1:

SciFrog:

Hybrid systems on SUV save nothing on my first hand experience. Torque? V8 bi turbo has plenty of it.

Shitty system. You need at least 50 miles of electric range. That will drop fuel usage substantially since that would cover the vast majority of day-to-day driving.

Naturally it would still use a bunch of fuel on long trips.

Full EV with 300 to 400 miles of range would be best

 

 

Why the need to have such a long EV range? Pointless. 

EV mode is only good for bumper to bumper traffic to keep the car system running. And silent driving in and out of quiet neighbourhoods.  Plus the benefit of getting to use car pool lanes and avoid congestion charges. 

15-20 miles range is perfectly good enough. The e-motor can provide performance boost as needed when it is not in eco mode. Just like how Porsche do their hybrids, and they are the only manufacturer that got it right.

A gas powered engine is still perfectly fine as a propulsion unit. A hybrid is best of both world. Gets the benefits of a EV while preserving the sound and feel of a gasoline powered car. 

Sorry but I disagree. My experience with the Cayenne hybrid loaner was an eye opener:

- battery was too small to handle getting into the city, park then get out again
- performance under pure EV was anemic
- the extra performance boost was not very noticeable, didn’t make the car faster than the turbo version, and would only kick in if you literally floored the car which is something you rarely do in an SUV and cannot do while keeping passenger confortable
- fuel usage was not particularly very good overall especially when recharging the battery

Surely hybrid works nicely in a car like the 918 on one end, and maybe in low power economical people mover like a Prius where performance and handling are not important so the car be be tuned exclusively for low fuel usage. For the rest, the technology isn’t close yet.

I liked the Cayenne hybrid because I was driving a SUV without basically any sound through the city and it was fascinating. In retrospect, it was a comfortable but highly boring ride.  I would never buy it.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

noone1:

No reason to ruin the party for the rest of us. You can buy your 10 mpg petrol model and leave the EVs to us who can charge our phones at night. 

I think you are confused, we are called "petrolheads" for a reason, the emphasis is on petrol

why don't you go and post on a site where there are lots of "evheads"

Na Mezger:

noone1:

No reason to ruin the party for the rest of us. You can buy your 10 mpg petrol model and leave the EVs to us who can charge our phones at night. 

I think you are confused, we are called "petrolheads" for a reason, the emphasis is on petrol

why don't you go and post on a site where there are lots of "evheads"

 

 

I think those are called coalheads. 

EVs are powered by coal fire power plants.

Whoopsy:

Na Mezger:

noone1:

No reason to ruin the party for the rest of us. You can buy your 10 mpg petrol model and leave the EVs to us who can charge our phones at night. 

I think you are confused, we are called "petrolheads" for a reason, the emphasis is on petrol

why don't you go and post on a site where there are lots of "evheads"

 

 

 

I think those are called coalheads. 

EVs are powered by coal fire power plants.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

SciFrog:

Whoopsy:

noone1:

SciFrog:

Hybrid systems on SUV save nothing on my first hand experience. Torque? V8 bi turbo has plenty of it.

Shitty system. You need at least 50 miles of electric range. That will drop fuel usage substantially since that would cover the vast majority of day-to-day driving.

Naturally it would still use a bunch of fuel on long trips.

Full EV with 300 to 400 miles of range would be best

 

 

Why the need to have such a long EV range? Pointless. 

EV mode is only good for bumper to bumper traffic to keep the car system running. And silent driving in and out of quiet neighbourhoods.  Plus the benefit of getting to use car pool lanes and avoid congestion charges. 

15-20 miles range is perfectly good enough. The e-motor can provide performance boost as needed when it is not in eco mode. Just like how Porsche do their hybrids, and they are the only manufacturer that got it right.

A gas powered engine is still perfectly fine as a propulsion unit. A hybrid is best of both world. Gets the benefits of a EV while preserving the sound and feel of a gasoline powered car. 

Sorry but I disagree. My experience with the Cayenne hybrid loaner was an eye opener:

- battery was too small to handle getting into the city, park then get out again
- performance under pure EV was anemic
- the extra performance boost was not very noticeable, didn’t make the car faster than the turbo version, and would only kick in if you literally floored the car which is something you rarely do in an SUV and cannot do while keeping passenger confortable
- fuel usage was not particularly very good overall especially when recharging the battery

Surely hybrid works nicely in a car like the 918 on one end, and maybe in low power economical people mover like a Prius where performance and handling are not important so the car be be tuned exclusively for low fuel usage. For the rest, the technology isn’t close yet.

The Cayenne hybrid was not along the lines of performance hybrid like the 918 or Panamera Turbo S, it's more of a Prius, embarrassingly.  That's why it sucks. All ECO hybrids sucks, worse of both worlds.

Only hybrid actually making sense (from a petrolhead's point of view) is the upcoming Cayenne Turbo S.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Whoopsy:

Na Mezger:

noone1:

No reason to ruin the party for the rest of us. You can buy your 10 mpg petrol model and leave the EVs to us who can charge our phones at night. 

I think you are confused, we are called "petrolheads" for a reason, the emphasis is on petrol

why don't you go and post on a site where there are lots of "evheads"

 

 

 

I think those are called coalheads. 

EVs are powered by coal fire power plants.

So they will be nukeheads in the future then 

My power is nuclear and gas.

RC:

Only hybrid actually making sense (from a petrolhead's point of view) is the upcoming Cayenne Turbo S.

Does it come with a much larger battery than the hybrid S?

AP911:

So they will be nukeheads in the future then 

IT's actually called radioactivehead, or Radiohead in short. 

SciFrog:

RC:

Only hybrid actually making sense (from a petrolhead's point of view) is the upcoming Cayenne Turbo S.

Does it come with a much larger battery than the hybrid S?

Battery pack in both is the same, so is the e-motor. 

Instead of the forgettable V6, Porsche stuff it with a proper engine from the Turbo.

See Panamera Turbo S, exact same drivetrain.

Well, I’m a petrolhead pur sang but I’m very happy to dd a hybrid X5, it does a wonderfull job of getting from A to B in a very silent, comfortable way while getting 1200 km on one fuel tank. No real fun to find behind the wheel, but in bumper to bumper traffic, my 911 isn’t fun either and don’t get me started on driving the Donkervoort in traffic 

Every car is designed for a specific role, no car can do all. So I don’t really get this discussion 

997.2 4S / BMW X5 40e / Donkervoort GT 

spudgun:

Well, I’m a petrolhead pur sang but I’m very happy to dd a hybrid X5, it does a wonderfull job of getting from A to B in a very silent, comfortable way while getting 1200 km on one fuel tank. No real fun to find behind the wheel, but in bumper to bumper traffic, my 911 isn’t fun either and don’t get me started on driving the Donkervoort in traffic 

Every car is designed for a specific role, no car can do all. So I don’t really get this discussion 

Some Tesla fanboi decided that the Tesla is the be all end all solution that's all 

But seriously, the world is big enough to accommodate every possible solutions. For those that like pure EV, they have their choices, but just don't force that choice on the rest of the world's population. 

Same with people that only likes pure petrol cars, the world is evolving, EVs are here to stay, embrace them, especially when the current EVs are just semi-boring people movers until the real players starting making exciting ones, the current ones don't really encroach on their turf yet.

Then there are lovers of pathetic eco-hybrids, that's even more boring than EVs, no power, not much green-friendliness, and only suitable for taxi duties, got plenty outhouse Priuses around town.

And then there are the performance hybrids, where the best of both worlds are being fusion together, except some find them too heavy and whatnots. 

I"ve said it more times than I can remember but the best Hybrid would be one with a hyper efficient ICE engine which is the generator for the EV motors. You have a battery but it doesn't have to be big and ideally one EV motor for each wheel (which allows amazing traction control etc). the ICE engine doesn't need to rev when you put the pedal to the floor, it just hums away at its most efficient range and the power comes from the battery which is constantly being charged. 

No range issues, all the benefits of EV (insta-torque).  

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

Mithras:

I"ve said it more times than I can remember but the best Hybrid would be one with a hyper efficient ICE engine which is the generator for the EV motors. You have a battery but it doesn't have to be big and ideally one EV motor for each wheel (which allows amazing traction control etc). the ICE engine doesn't need to rev when you put the pedal to the floor, it just hums away at its most efficient range and the power comes from the battery which is constantly being charged. 

No range issues, all the benefits of EV (insta-torque).  

And that will anger both sides of the isle

The pure EV guys will say that's not cool, they don't need ICE, the range is good enough.

The ICE guys will cry foul also, an ICE engine is meant to be rev up and down with a wonderful exhaust note.

damn and I thought there are pics of the new G Class

And then there will be the guys that say "four 200hp engines, instant, massive torque, best traction management ever, infinite range (with fill-ups) and potential for full EV (no noise etc) when wanted? Sign me up." Then if you want you pipe in engine noise like BMW etc already do and Boom! 800hp rocket-sled that sounds like you're driving a Ferrari F1.

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

BjoernB:

damn and I thought there are pics of the new G Class

I guess we need a new thread: 2019 G Class 

Mithras:

And then there will be the guys that say "four 200hp engines, instant, massive torque, best traction management ever, infinite range (with fill-ups) and potential for full EV (no noise etc) when wanted? Sign me up." Then if you want you pipe in engine noise like BMW etc already do and Boom! 800hp rocket-sled that sounds like you're driving a Ferrari F1.

*checked my garage* 

*sees the 918 still sitting there*

The 918 is pretty much what you described. Except it didn't need 4 ICEs, just one and 2 e-motors, and no need to pipe in engine noise.

Nick if every car in the world was like your 918 the world would be a better place!

and I meant 4 e-motors and one ICE (which is only used to charge the battery).

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

Whoopsy:

Mithras:

And then there will be the guys that say "four 200hp engines, instant, massive torque, best traction management ever, infinite range (with fill-ups) and potential for full EV (no noise etc) when wanted? Sign me up." Then if you want you pipe in engine noise like BMW etc already do and Boom! 800hp rocket-sled that sounds like you're driving a Ferrari F1.

 

*checked my garage* 

*sees the 918 still sitting there*

The 918 is pretty much what you described. Except it didn't need 4 ICEs, just one and 2 e-motors, and no need to pipe in engine noise.

 

But you paid $1M. That's hardly a solution.

noone1:

Whoopsy:

Mithras:

And then there will be the guys that say "four 200hp engines, instant, massive torque, best traction management ever, infinite range (with fill-ups) and potential for full EV (no noise etc) when wanted? Sign me up." Then if you want you pipe in engine noise like BMW etc already do and Boom! 800hp rocket-sled that sounds like you're driving a Ferrari F1.

 

*checked my garage* 

*sees the 918 still sitting there*

The 918 is pretty much what you described. Except it didn't need 4 ICEs, just one and 2 e-motors, and no need to pipe in engine noise.

 

But you paid $1M. That's hardly a solution.

Cost is highly relative. 

That 1 million dollar won't even buy the tires off a 1962 Ferrari 250 GTO, just saying.

specially when the car is worth more today than when you bought it....