Crown

Forum - Thema

    03.05.2007 16:52:11

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Deutschland
    Beiträge: 8098, Gallery
    Registriert: 17.06.2002

    Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    The latest issue of AutoZeitung contains a comparison of Gallardo SL and GT3 RS.

    Here are some key results (Gallardo / GT3RS):

    0-100: 3.9s / 4.2s
    0-200: 12.5s / 13.2s
    100-0: 32.2s / 34.9s
    Top speed: 315 / 310
    Lap time: 1:33.6 / 1:35.0

    Consequently, the Gallardo wins the competition.

    Honestly, this result does speak a very clear language. Porsche has a major problem.

    P.S.: Please note that I could use the same wording as in the R8 vs. 9974s test summary. Porsche's problem seems to be the same in all segments...

    03.05.2007 16:55:30

    FutchM
    Rennteam Moderator
    Futch
    Loc: EU , Vereinigtes Königreich
    Beiträge: 4759, Gallery
    Registriert: 14.05.2002
    Antwort auf: MKSGRM

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    You pay a high price for the increase in performance though.
    Isn't the Lambo a lot more expensive than the RS?

    03.05.2007 17:04:04

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Kroatien
    Beiträge: 7856, Gallery
    Registriert: 03.12.2005
    Antwort auf: MKSGRM

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Just as a comparison here are the resluts for 997 turbo from AZ...

    0-100km/h: 3.9s
    0-200km/h:12.5s
    Lap time: 1.38,1min

    997 turbo was manual with LSD and standard brakes with Michelin PS2 tires.

    Gallardo SL was on Corsa's while GT3RS was on Michelin Cup's NO.

    997 turbo could be faster on either sport tires as well on new Pirelli Zero the Hero(available soon in N1 Porsche specs!)...

    03.05.2007 17:11:55

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Deutschland
    Beiträge: 12682, Gallery
    Registriert: 11.04.2002
    Antwort auf: FutchM

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    Fanch said:
    You pay a high price for the increase in performance though.
    Isn't the Lambo a lot more expensive than the RS?



    I think over 50k Euro more for the Superleggera, so I'd say these two cars don't play in the same league, as Gallardo and 997tt do for example.

    03.05.2007 17:32:45

    andrea
    Rennteam Master
    andrea
    Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italien
    Beiträge: 3569, Gallery
    Registriert: 24.09.2003
    Antwort auf: Rossi

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    the challange from september will be GT2 vs Superleggera vs F430 LP

    03.05.2007 17:43:32

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Deutschland
    Beiträge: 12682, Gallery
    Registriert: 11.04.2002
    Antwort auf: andrea

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    andrea said:
    the challange from september will be GT2 vs Superleggera vs F430 LP



    That will be a tight battle!

    03.05.2007 18:30:01

    VGA18
    Veteran
    VGA18
    Loc: Istanbul and Tampa
    Beiträge: 1029, Gallery
    Registriert: 11.04.2006
    Antwort auf: Rossi

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Andrea is right.

    But the winner is for visual effects is Gallardo SL already.

    However for performance issue , Gallardo has AWD advantage , F430LP and 997 GT2 would have the weight advantage.

    It would be tough challenge for both cars.

    03.05.2007 19:53:11

    dhayek Offline
    Rennteam Master
    dhayek
    Loc: Beirut , Libanon
    Beiträge: 3839, Gallery
    Registriert: 07.07.2004
    Antwort auf: VGA18

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    kreso, any indication for the SL ring time?

    03.05.2007 19:59:52

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Kroatien
    Beiträge: 7856, Gallery
    Registriert: 03.12.2005
    Antwort auf: dhayek

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Dimitri,
    Unofficial SL Ring time is 7.44min so, will von Saurma achive it?
    I do not know but, my guess in something like 7.46min in von Saurma hands...

    03.05.2007 20:18:16

    dhayek Offline
    Rennteam Master
    dhayek
    Loc: Beirut , Libanon
    Beiträge: 3839, Gallery
    Registriert: 07.07.2004
    Antwort auf: KresoF1

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    wow! 7.44 will be an amazing time, and a huge challenge for the 430 LP
    thx. kreso

    03.05.2007 20:49:50

    VGA18
    Veteran
    VGA18
    Loc: Istanbul and Tampa
    Beiträge: 1029, Gallery
    Registriert: 11.04.2006
    Antwort auf: dhayek

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    7.44 time 1second worse than 7.43 Murcie time(dunno if it is legit)

    But 7.44 is really good

    03.05.2007 20:51:01

    VGA18
    Veteran
    VGA18
    Loc: Istanbul and Tampa
    Beiträge: 1029, Gallery
    Registriert: 11.04.2006
    Antwort auf: VGA18

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Also IMO SL would have much impressive time in Hockenheim.

    03.05.2007 22:27:58

    dhayek Offline
    Rennteam Master
    dhayek
    Loc: Beirut , Libanon
    Beiträge: 3839, Gallery
    Registriert: 07.07.2004
    Antwort auf: VGA18

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    what murci had 7.43 caghan?

    03.05.2007 22:37:52

    VGA18
    Veteran
    VGA18
    Loc: Istanbul and Tampa
    Beiträge: 1029, Gallery
    Registriert: 11.04.2006
    Antwort auf: dhayek

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Dmitri it must be a regular Murci

    7:43.5 - 160,000 km/h -- Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine 02)

    04.05.2007 00:15:16

    997GT3RS
    Senior
    997GT3RS
    Loc: Germany
    Beiträge: 637, Gallery
    Registriert: 04.06.2006
    Antwort auf: MKSGRM

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    The latest issue of AutoZeitung contains a comparison of Gallardo SL and GT3 RS.

    Here are some key results (Gallardo / GT3RS):

    0-100: 3.9s / 4.2s
    0-200: 12.5s / 13.2s
    100-0: 32.2s / 34.9s
    Top speed: 315 / 310
    Lap time: 1:33.6 / 1:35.0

    Consequently, the Gallardo wins the competition.

    Honestly, this result does speak a very clear language. Porsche has a major problem.

    P.S.: Please note that I could use the same wording as in the R8 vs. 9974s test summary. Porsche's problem seems to be the same in all segments...



    what problem?

    the SL is so much more expensive plus 4WD

    and 115p more, so the result isn't that impressive.

    I am sure the RS will have much more fun to drive.

    04.05.2007 03:23:36

    Hurst
    Veteran
    Hurst
    Loc: Potomac, MD
    Beiträge: 1255, Gallery
    Registriert: 15.04.2005
    Antwort auf: 997GT3RS

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    997GT2 said:


    what problem?

    the SL is so much more expensive plus 4WD

    and 115p more, so the result isn't that impressive.

    I am sure the RS will have much more fun to drive.



    Well, the hp argument is slowly fading away as a dying logic. Porsche is responsible for their relatively low hp output.
    You may call other cars irresponsible for their ever escalating hp/tq figures, but it's a reality of the car market today.

    In the 996 itteration, the GT3RS was a clear competitor of the 360CS. The SL plays in that same bracket, just one generation later. Now we are saying that it is the GT2's job to take on the competition. What's next, the CGT?

    480 for the turbo and 415 for the GT3/RS were clearly not enough to stifle the current competition and the frequent facelifts of the G cars doesn't help either. The reason for the low hp is clearly the need to cling to the GT1 block for at least the 998 and maybe even the 999 models. Sure beats spending some money on developing a new engine, right?

    Imagine if 998 models come with nominal hp increases. How will they compete whatsoever with the ever escalating market place? Huge weight reduction will be necessary, but safety/emissions makes it quite difficult.

    Porsche is putting itself into a corner and it will take some long term innovation and investment to get it out. If not, the rosy profit margins could rapidly turnabout...

    04.05.2007 05:15:05

    Targa Tim
    Expert
    Targa Tim
    Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada , Kanada
    Beiträge: 1475, Gallery
    Registriert: 03.03.2005
    Antwort auf: Hurst

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    When the Nissan Skyline GTR comes out, every sport cars company will be in trouble together...

    04.05.2007 07:29:50

    BC
    Rennteam Pro
    BC
    Loc: Cape Town , Südafrika
    Beiträge: 2586, Gallery
    Registriert: 19.05.2005
    Antwort auf: 997GT3RS

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    997GT2 said:
    I am sure the RS will have much more fun to drive.



    04.05.2007 17:44:57

    WBH
    Expert
    WBH
    Loc: CA
    Beiträge: 1963, Gallery
    Registriert: 02.01.2004
    Antwort auf: MKSGRM

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    The latest issue of AutoZeitung contains a comparison of Gallardo SL and GT3 RS.

    Here are some key results (Gallardo / GT3RS):

    0-100: 3.9s / 4.2s
    0-200: 12.5s / 13.2s
    100-0: 32.2s / 34.9s
    Top speed: 315 / 310
    Lap time: 1:33.6 / 1:35.0

    Consequently, the Gallardo wins the competition.

    Honestly, this result does speak a very clear language. Porsche has a major problem.

    P.S.: Please note that I could use the same wording as in the R8 vs. 9974s test summary. Porsche's problem seems to be the same in all segments...



    Agree P is lacking in innovation (e.g., lack of PDK, PSE, turbo lag solutions for 997TT)....and unremarkable NBR advances for 997TT are disappointing....

    But, driven back-to-back on dry track vs GSL, 997GTRS may be a more interesting car to drive b/c of ?300lb less wt, perhaps sharper steering precision and likely more impressive PCCB brake pedal feel.....and, in US, GT3RS costs only $140Kish vs $220Kish for GSL....and resale value/lease terms/warranty duration of GT3RS are likely signif superior....

    L seems to post excellent NBR times, but struggles to sell many units/show material sales gwth ....only sells some 1500 cars/yr; 60% into US....and seems that most of buyers in US are those who couldn't get a new F@MSRP...or who don't realize that a new 430/599 bought at mkt prices is still prob cheaper than buying a GSL at MSRP, if calc'g likely one-yr deprec costs and/or daily-useability....

    Also, haven't driven latest iteration of G yet, but one of my colleagues who has (and owns Enzo, 599, etc and is a solid amateur driver) observed that L mysteriously posts impressive NBR times (likely more impressive than 599), but neither he nor any of his car nut pals has ever found L steering/brakes/e-gear to offer even comparable precision/refinement vs 599, even in the more controlled setting of a smooth, dry track, let alone the vagaries of bumpy fwys/mtn twisties where tq/chassis damping/stab ctrls finesse loom larger....

    04.05.2007 18:15:55

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Deutschland
    Beiträge: 8098, Gallery
    Registriert: 17.06.2002
    Antwort auf: WBH

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    I was very skeptical about the Gallardo... until I drove one (standard 520hp version with egear). The car is great. A unique character

    I agree that the GT3 RS is cheaper. However, that is probably it. The Italians seem to develop more efficient cars than Porsche nowadays. Porsche has really lost its USP in that regard. Just look at the R8 test mentioned in another post. Porsche has been overtaken by its competitors in various segments. The most efficient sports cars are no longer produced in Zuffenhausen

    05.05.2007 20:31:44

    WBH
    Expert
    WBH
    Loc: CA
    Beiträge: 1963, Gallery
    Registriert: 02.01.2004
    Antwort auf: MKSGRM

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    I was very skeptical about the Gallardo... until I drove one (standard 520hp version with egear). The car is great. A unique character

    I agree that the GT3 RS is cheaper. However, that is probably it. The Italians seem to develop more efficient cars than Porsche nowadays. Porsche has really lost its USP in that regard. Just look at the R8 test mentioned in another post. Porsche has been overtaken by its competitors in various segments. The most efficient sports cars are no longer produced in Zuffenhausen



    Agree...P has lost its way...seemingly trying to maximize short-term profits w/no apparent R&D advances, while losing younger, frequent-repeat buyers to more innovative F/MB....

    But am pleased that F/MB seem to have really engineered (esp in 599 and CL) marvelous cars that solve an enthusiast's daily/wkend "needs"....

    BTW, am hearing great things re: upcoming 430CS and its latest/greatest tech advances, esp in F1 shiftspeeds and in its diff/stab ctrls...more of the innovations that made the 4000lb 599 such a multi-dimensionally brilliant perf/luxury car....

    Perhaps you should consider ordering 430CS as well, as its latest/greatest tech/driving expce may surpass that of 599 upon launch....

    05.05.2007 21:19:48

    ADias
    Rennteam Pro
    ADias
    Loc: Southwest USA , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
    Beiträge: 2495, Gallery
    Registriert: 09.04.2004
    Antwort auf: WBH

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Agree...P has lost its way...seemingly trying to maximize short-term profits w/no apparent R&D advances, while losing younger, frequent-repeat buyers to more innovative F/MB....



    Not what I see in Silicon Valley. Young P/MB/L/F buyers change cars like shirts and are rarely repeat buyers. They tend to follow the trend du jour and have no allegiance to any particular marque. Repeat buyers tend to be more seasoned individuals who are enamored by a particular design and stick with it. My 0.02.

    05.05.2007 22:22:45

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Deutschland
    Beiträge: 8098, Gallery
    Registriert: 17.06.2002
    Antwort auf: WBH

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Perhaps you should consider ordering 430CS as well, as its latest/greatest tech/driving expce may surpass that of 599 upon launch....



    I agree, the CS is likely to be a great car... only surpassed by the 430 successor

    06.05.2007 05:01:28

    svtrader1
    Veteran
    svtrader1
    Loc:
    Beiträge: 821, Gallery
    Registriert: 17.10.2003
    Antwort auf: MKSGRM

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    I agree, the CS is likely to be a great car... only surpassed by the 430 successor



    I'm not so sure about that. The Light Pista will likely have 520 hp and weigh near 3000lbs, while the F430 successor will weigh more than the LP and possibly more than the F430, but, have no more than 550hp. It's too close to call at this time.

    However, the SL is a real winner!! Congrats Lambo!!

    06.05.2007 05:40:27

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , Vereinigte Staaten von Amerika
    Beiträge: 12588, Gallery
    Registriert: 21.08.2002
    Antwort auf: svtrader1

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:I'm not so sure about that. The Light Pista will likely have 520 hp and weigh near 3000lbs


    It's going to weigh ALOT more than 3,000 lbs. The actual weight of the 360 was well over 3,000 lbs (much more than factory spec) and this will LP likely be even heavier...

    06.05.2007 08:14:17

    svtrader1
    Veteran
    svtrader1
    Loc:
    Beiträge: 821, Gallery
    Registriert: 17.10.2003
    Antwort auf: Grant

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:I'm not so sure about that. The Light Pista will likely have 520 hp and weigh near 3000lbs


    It's going to weigh ALOT more than 3,000 lbs. The actual weight of the 360 was well over 3,000 lbs (much more than factory spec) and this will LP likely be even heavier...



    The F430 weighs about 3300lbs. Subtract 200lbs.+ and you get ~3000lbs. What am I missing?

    06.05.2007 09:09:56

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarktis
    Beiträge: 8287, Gallery
    Registriert: 17.10.2002
    Antwort auf: svtrader1

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:I'm not so sure about that. The Light Pista will likely have 520 hp and weigh near 3000lbs


    It's going to weigh ALOT more than 3,000 lbs. The actual weight of the 360 was well over 3,000 lbs (much more than factory spec) and this will LP likely be even heavier...



    The F430 weighs about 3300lbs. Subtract 200lbs.+ and you get ~3000lbs. What am I missing?



    I thought I read only 120 lbs weight reduction. Or was that kilograms?

    I love the Superleggera though .

    06.05.2007 11:14:59

    mv
    Senior
    mv
    Loc:
    Beiträge: 519, Gallery
    Registriert: 08.02.2004
    Antwort auf: Crash

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:I'm not so sure about that. The Light Pista will likely have 520 hp and weigh near 3000lbs


    It's going to weigh ALOT more than 3,000 lbs. The actual weight of the 360 was well over 3,000 lbs (much more than factory spec) and this will LP likely be even heavier...



    The F430 weighs about 3300lbs. Subtract 200lbs.+ and you get ~3000lbs. What am I missing?



    I thought I read only 120 lbs weight reduction. Or was that kilograms?

    I love the Superleggera though .



    Weight reduction of about 110-120kg is rumoured for the F430 LP.

    06.05.2007 13:45:17

    Rossi
    Rennteam VIP
    Rossi
    Loc: Home , Deutschland
    Beiträge: 12682, Gallery
    Registriert: 11.04.2002
    Antwort auf: svtrader1

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    I agree, the CS is likely to be a great car... only surpassed by the 430 successor



    I'm not so sure about that. The Light Pista will likely have 520 hp and weigh near 3000lbs, while the F430 successor will weigh more than the LP and possibly more than the F430, but, have no more than 550hp. It's too close to call at this time.

    However, the SL is a real winner!! Congrats Lambo!!



    If Ferrari really fulfills its promises, that their future car will not only focus on power increase but also on weight reduction, the F430-successor doesn't have to be necessarily heavier than its predecessor.

    06.05.2007 13:54:49

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Kroatien
    Beiträge: 7856, Gallery
    Registriert: 03.12.2005
    Antwort auf: Rossi

    Re: Gallardo SL vs. 997GT3RS

    It will be heavier-you can bet on it. Why? Safety features... Only if Ferrari again build a car with two airbags... But, if they put 4(I would say 6 is a must!) airbags then only this thing will bring additional weight.
    Engine will be bigger etc. And last, not very nice thing that I heard is that F430 replacement will be slightly bigger...
    But, let's wait few years and see...
     
    Bearbeiten

    Forum

    1. Alle 

    Boards

     
    Board Betreff Letzter Beitrag Bewertung Views Antworten
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 15.05.24 08:44
    art.italy     		808890 1808
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 07.04.24 11:48
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		450454 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 12.03.24 08:28
    DJM48     		267734 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 30.01.24 09:18
    RCA     		90999 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 15.03.24 13:23
    CGX car nut     		7869 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 01.02.24 19:01
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 888560 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 23.07.23 19:01
    Grant     		837729 3868
    Porsche GT4RS 21.04.24 11:50
    mcdelaug     		402548 1454
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 10.02.24 16:43
    nberry     		398660 1526
    Andere Tesla 2 the new thread 13.12.23 14:48
    CGX car nut     		386044 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 03.07.23 12:30
    Porker     		372083 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 12.05.24 18:23
    blueflame     		294528 669
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 19.10.23 19:06
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 268199 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 30.07.23 18:59
    mcdelaug     		244777 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 25.06.23 14:53
    Enmanuel     		239234 101
    Andere Corvette C8 16.10.23 15:24
    Enmanuel     		223222 488
    Andere Gordon Murray - T.50 22.11.23 10:27
    mcdelaug     		173762 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 11.06.23 17:13
    CGX car nut     		145562 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 29.12.23 09:04
    RCA     		121918 303
    Motorsp. 2023 Formula One 19.12.23 05:38
    WhoopsyM     		113732 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 07.03.24 16:22
    WhoopsyM     		86412 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 23.02.24 22:03
    blueflame     		76619 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 03.03.24 19:22
    WhoopsyM     		55641 314
    Motorsp. Porsche 963 18.05.24 21:44
    Wonderbar     		27520 249
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 21.01.24 16:29
    GT-Boy     		22288 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 08.04.24 13:43
    Ferdie     		20910 140
    AMG G63 sold out 15.09.23 19:38
    Nico997     		17541 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 23.04.24 13:24
    RCA     		15441 225
    Porsche Porsche Mission X Hypercar 03.12.23 08:52
    996FourEss     		11470 63
    Andere An unassuming homologation special - 205 Rallye 31.05.23 12:23
    Enmanuel     		11276 35
    120 Elemente gefunden.