Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: For 997 GT3 Owners - Page1

Apr 27, 2007 9:23:13 PM

996cal: Pilot; Loc: PDK , United States; Posts: 488, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 22, 2003

For 997 GT3 Owners

I ran into some guy at a local car show who told me that the 2008 Corvette coupes and cabs will have a new LS3 motor that will be faster than Porsche's 911 GT3 cars. He said that it will be a 6.2L 436HP and top speed of 190mph. I told him i'd still rather have the GT3 and he said he'll laugh at them when he see's them on the road. Just my opinion, but this guy was retarded!!!! Is there any truth to this because if it is i'm afraid it might be faster overall than the GT3! I hope Porsche starts bumping up the power...I hate to see 911's get smoked by Corvettes.

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Apr 27, 2007 9:52:34 PM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: 996cal

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Who cares.

Hp is but one measure of the worth of a sports car.

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Apr 27, 2007 10:22:12 PM

jeffbco: Pilot; Loc: Denver; Posts: 494, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 18, 2006; Reply to: frayed

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
frayed said:
Who cares.
DITTO
Hp is but one measure of the worth of a sports car.

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Apr 27, 2007 10:51:59 PM

NeverFastEnough: Junior; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 79, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 24, 2004; Reply to: frayed

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
frayed said:
Who cares.

Hp is but one measure of the worth of a sports car.

Brief but accurate

!

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Apr 27, 2007 11:06:37 PM

PsyD4Me: Newbie; Loc: United States; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 18, 2006; Reply to: NeverFastEnough

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

For me it comes down to this: which sounds more race bred to you?
A) a 3.6 liter engine putting out 415bhp
B) a 6.2 liter engine putting out 436 bhp

My neighbor has a new ZO6 which he proudly states puts out "over 500 hp." It's a 7 liter V8! From an engineering standpoint, that's just embarassing.

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Apr 27, 2007 11:22:12 PM

Jim_in_Iowa: Pilot; Loc: US; Posts: 336, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2005; Reply to: 996cal

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

This reminds me of the TOP GEAR episode where they went to the Isle of Man with a 500 HP M6, a 380 HP Aston Martin, and a 997C2S with 355 HP. Over part of the mountain course the M6 and Aston were tied for time, the 355 HP C2S was 6 seconds faster (out of around 90 seconds). Out of a 90 second stint, 6 seconds is huge, about 527 feet ahead by my math. Check it out if you haven't seen it:

http://coochas.com/porsche/Resources/36-997S-lo-TGAstM6.wmv

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Apr 27, 2007 11:23:35 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: PsyD4Me

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

HP means SQUAT. A 997 C2S thrashed a 380 BHP AMV8 and a 500+BHP BMW M6 on Top Gear a while ago. Weight, chasis, handling all have a big determining factor on how a car drives. One of my buddies (360, F50) reckons the fastest car on the road is a Mitsubishi Evo he has! Not sure which version but its about GBP 40,000 or so - the one that beat a Murcielago on Top Gear.

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Apr 27, 2007 11:24:30 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Jim - we must have been typing at the same time mate! Cool!

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Apr 27, 2007 11:44:05 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Jim_in_Iowa

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
Jim_in_Iowa said:
This reminds me of the TOP GEAR episode where they went to the Isle of Man with a 500 HP M6, a 380 HP Aston Martin, and a 997C2S with 355 HP. Over part of the mountain course the M6 and Aston were tied for time, the 355 HP C2S was 6 seconds faster (out of around 90 seconds). Out of a 90 second stint, 6 seconds is huge, about 527 feet ahead by my math. Check it out if you haven't seen it:

http://coochas.com/porsche/Resources/36-997S-lo-TGAstM6.wmv

Top Gear had some interesting lap times also.

Roush 420E Mustang(420hp)- faster than a 997S

Corvette C6 - faster than a 997S

Corvette Z06 - faster than the burning gas they had lit on fire along the track! Check out youtube for it. Clarkson compared the Z6 to the Ferrari Maranello and picked, gasp, the Corvette and he loves ferraris and hates American cars.

Sometimes iron is effective!

Arguing defacto superiority of small displacement/high output engines is useless these days. Yes, the GT3 engine is a screamer, but yes its also in a heavy car so its advantage is lost. Sad!

That said-the GT3 is the more precise car to place in corners, sounds great and brakes great, but Porsche's traditional advantages of brakes and less weight are gone....

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Apr 27, 2007 11:54:38 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Tell if you wanted, you could buy 2 Corvettes for the price of one GT3.

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Apr 28, 2007 12:27:40 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:That said-the GT3 is the more precise car to place in corners, sounds great and brakes great, but Porsche's traditional advantages of brakes and less weight are gone....

Weight advantages are gone. Brake advantages certainly are not.

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Apr 28, 2007 12:45:12 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: frayed

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Id say that stock Corvette brakes will fade before those on a GT3, but for 4K you can get Brembos big brake package or a similar setup from AP. Brembo is also the brake supplier for Porsche. If you like you can even put some on your Suburban, LOL.

What is different is that Porsche no longer has a unique and distinct advantage in braking de-accelleration. That magic is out of the bottle.

Other than PCCBs longer life and more bitey feel, there is no brake upgrade left for Porsche that can give them a advantage that their competitors' customers cannot buy.

Maybe the Seimens electric wedge brake system will appear on Porsches first. That system does have a advantage as it uses wedges instead of calipers, stops quicker and weighs less. Cross your fingers!
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/wip/0406wip06.html

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Apr 28, 2007 1:35:19 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Texas911

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

You know it's funny how everyone gets bent out of shape when someone says something about a Corvette. I for one like vettes just as much as I like my 997. It is a different car and so be it. Heck I like lamborghini gallardo but it doesn't make me try to justify my 997.

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Apr 28, 2007 1:37:06 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: PsyD4Me

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
PsyD4Me said:
For me it comes down to this: which sounds more race bred to you?
A) a 3.6 liter engine putting out 415bhp
B) a 6.2 liter engine putting out 436 bhp

My neighbor has a new ZO6 which he proudly states puts out "over 500 hp." It's a 7 liter V8! From an engineering standpoint, that's just embarassing.

Maybe to you but not to me. Sorry but I'm a V8 guy all the way. Both are great engines.

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Apr 28, 2007 1:38:25 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Texas911

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
Texas911 said:
Tell if you wanted, you could buy 2 Corvettes for the price of one GT3.

Does this mean the vette is underpriced or the 997 is overpriced?

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Apr 28, 2007 1:55:34 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: bstew

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

The vette motor is awesome. The car is an engineering tour de force, with a beast of a motor, a sophisticated chassis, and out of the box performance that Porsche can barely match. But you have to drive one to experience the car. Entirely different driving experience. Every control in the GT3 feels precise, of tight tolerances. The vette?

Well, it doesn't.

It's fast though. Straight line and on track. Wicked fast.

But in the end, we buy cars that move us, we buy cars for the driving and ownership experience.

Jim, in your post you agree with me, despite your original comment to the contrary. BTW, single stopping distances are of limited value for a sports car, as they are a function of brake bias and tire compound primarily. You know that. What matters most is feel and fade resistance (heat capacity).

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Apr 28, 2007 2:25:10 AM

Bluehinder: Junior; Loc: Colorado; Posts: 134, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 18, 2007; Reply to: frayed

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

They are both great cars, one is a better value. Depends on what you value. I'd never diss the Z06. I had one, now have a GT3. Z06 is the deal of the century. I'd not want to race one anywhere. They deserve a great deal of respect.

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Apr 28, 2007 2:49:11 AM

PsyD4Me: Newbie; Loc: United States; Posts: 5, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 18, 2006; Reply to: bstew

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
bstew said:
Quote:
PsyD4Me said:
For me it comes down to this: which sounds more race bred to you?
A) a 3.6 liter engine putting out 415bhp
B) a 6.2 liter engine putting out 436 bhp

My neighbor has a new ZO6 which he proudly states puts out "over 500 hp." It's a 7 liter V8! From an engineering standpoint, that's just embarassing.

Maybe to you but not to me. Sorry but I'm a V8 guy all the way. Both are great engines.

I love V8's too (and I'd really love a V10 or V12!). The ZO6 is an amazing car (for any price) but I'm just left wondering about the hp/displacement equation. My S4's 4.2 V8 is rated at 340 and the RS4's V8 is at 420. The ZO6 kills the RS4 in torque output for sure but I can only imagine what sort of monster the ZO6 could be.

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Apr 28, 2007 3:31:23 AM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: bstew

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
bstew said:
Quote:
Texas911 said:
Tell if you wanted, you could buy 2 Corvettes for the price of one GT3.

Does this mean the vette is underpriced or the 997 is overpriced?

No it means there is no reason that a Corvette owner is going to laugh at a GT3 owner.

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Apr 28, 2007 6:57:51 AM

Adam2S: Senior; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 19, 2007; Reply to: Texas911

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

It means the vette is in a completely different category to the GT3. Power may be an important fact when comparing say two different porsches together but the vette is not comparable in so many other ways.

Its like comparing a fine meal at the best french resteraunt with a huge pile of burgers from MacD's and then saying just look how full my belly is on the burgers and how cheap they are - therefore the burgers are the better meal. They are only the better meal if you cant afford the french resteraunt or you have no taste. The vette is a bigmac Im afraid - sure bigmac's are tasty but not something you want every day once you have a taste for fine dining.

Each car has its market, there are very few people who would be really in the market for either - if they say that are then in reality they are probably not in the market for the GT3 at all.

Hmm, where shall we eat out tonight dear? Do you fancy something with a Michelin star or something extra filling from that chap with the little gold stars on his shirt?

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Apr 28, 2007 8:13:33 AM

Ronnie: Co-Pilot; Loc: good old England (sometimes Hong Kong); Posts: 206, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 13, 2005; Reply to: PsyD4Me

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
PsyD4Me said:
For me it comes down to this: which sounds more race bred to you?
A) a 3.6 liter engine putting out 415bhp
B) a 6.2 liter engine putting out 436 bhp

My neighbor has a new ZO6 which he proudly states puts out "over 500 hp." It's a 7 liter V8! From an engineering standpoint, that's just embarassing.

Yeah, I've never understood how people (mainly Americans on this one from my experience?) think it's an engineering achievement to make a car go fast in a straight line by shoeing a truck sized engine in it.

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Apr 28, 2007 8:43:52 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Ronnie

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Ronnie a good size truck engine in the states is 7 to 8.2 liters.

What is huge to British and European buyers - 6 liters - historically has been a moderate size for sedans and light trucks in the states.

You can blaim that on a lot of things - different or none at all post war era fuel taxes and displacement taxes, cost of ownership, whatever.. but if Carol Shelby had not stuck a 7.5 liter V8 into the anemic AC Ace there would not have been the Ford Cobra that beat Ferrari and Porsche, and likely also not the GT40 that crushed those as well. So they are not ineffective motors despite their humble origins.

Surprisingly a Corvette V8 engine weighs approx 50 lbs less then a 964 3.4 liter flat 6 engine. So the question about European performance engine makers maybe should be -- why so little displacement from so much weight?

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Apr 28, 2007 10:09:40 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

In the USA the big V8 is still useful because our country is huge and our cities aren't based on medieval towns. We have giant freeways and broad streets. I think you can fit the whole of Europe inside Texas!

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Apr 29, 2007 3:14:12 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Texas911

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
Texas911 said:
Quote:
bstew said:
Quote:
Texas911 said:
Tell if you wanted, you could buy 2 Corvettes for the price of one GT3.

Does this mean the vette is underpriced or the 997 is overpriced?

No it means there is no reason that a Corvette owner is going to laugh at a GT3 owner.

Well that depends on what the vette owner values. They could laugh at why someone would spend twice as much

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Apr 29, 2007 3:18:52 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: frayed

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
frayed said:
It's fast though. Straight line and on track. Wicked fast.

I hear this all the time. Anytime someone talks about a car other then Porsche I always hear that the other car is fast in a straight line..... Sure Porsche handles well but a vette is no slouch in that department. Come on guys everyone doesn't have to like a Porsche and if someone buys something else who cares. We don't have to try and justify why we pay more for our cars. Cars are like women, they come in all shapes and sizes and not everyone has to like the same one.

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Apr 29, 2007 10:03:04 AM

MarcusRay: Pilot; Loc: Athens; Posts: 341, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 21, 2006; Reply to: bstew

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

well I have two friends who have a Vette, C5 in particular, and a 997C4S Cab Tip...I mean...last night we were out with the Porsche and it's an unbelievable car...how could you ever compare those two cars??? the Vette looks like a city car inside when compared to the Porsche...the way the 911 oversteers is just unbelievable...it's so fun and controllable...the whole feeling you get, the sounds, the ride everything is much more than what you get from a standard Vette...I don't know about the Z06 but over a standard Vette, I'd take the 911 any day

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Apr 29, 2007 12:26:42 PM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: bstew

Re: For 997 GT3 Owners

Quote:
bstew said:
Quote:
frayed said:
It's fast though. Straight line and on track. Wicked fast.

I hear this all the time. Anytime someone talks about a car other then Porsche I always hear that the other car is fast in a straight line..... Sure Porsche handles well but a vette is no slouch in that department. Come on guys everyone doesn't have to like a Porsche and if someone buys something else who cares. We don't have to try and justify why we pay more for our cars. Cars are like women, they come in all shapes and sizes and not everyone has to like the same one.

Uhh. You may want to reread the quote that you pulled of my post. Maybe read it twice.

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