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Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Crash, then please reserve me a manual gearbox F430. The F1 transmissions dont do well off road.As for baseball bats, I prefer wooden over aluminum because they feel better when you hit something with them.
Car? Done. As for baseball bats, I seem to also have a nice little stack of No. 6 Louisville sluggers here. Bring your kids. Fun for the whole family
.
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
LoranTw said:Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Tortesq1. There is no way that Canadians or Americans can really get the same use out of their cars as Germans or people from some neighboring countries often visiting Germany or even driving on their own roads wich are sometimes less congested/less patrolled than in NA.
I am a lifelong speeder in the US. Speed limits to some people are just painted numbers on signs
Some of the more candid and driver talented Euro press and some EU 997TT owners have identified some negatives in the car when its pushed beyond 8/10s. So let them state what they know and have experienced. If they are dissapointed in some way, I want to know!
As for Crash's place of residence, what matter if it is EU or say even Bukina Fasso?
For all we know Crash is actually the ruler of Bukina Fasso and hunts cheetahs from a Turbo Cab using billiard cues. No big deal!
Rennteam is a a very interesting and fine community. Find time to enjoy it and you will, even Nick does
Heres how I look at it for what it's worth after being here and very much enjoying the learned exchange of ideas from people who clearly have more experience than than I. We all share something in common..(even Nick, cheers buddy..) we all love sports cars and want to see them improve...elevate the bar so to speak. The 997tt in it's stock form may not have brought everyone to their feet in a corus of applause but having said that, it has improved the marquee...perhaps only marginally. I do know this, I enjoy everyone of you and your thoughts, whether I agree with you on all ocassions or not is not important. What I do know is I will eventiually tune and enhance my car to make it as good as can practically be and for this reason I say to my european friends...keeps the critique coming
I love my turbo...but need your help. I'm not looking for a 600 horsepower monster that will blow up or require a kings ransom to improve upon. I would like to make it slightly more aggressive...
Loran, if I were you, I'd wait for Ruf to release its 550 package, although anything from EVOMS will probably work just as well and be about half the price.
Apr 25, 2007 8:20:27 AM
- Crash
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- Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
- Posts: 8287, Gallery
- Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
- Reply to: SoCalHoosier
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:
LOL... Crash! This is actually quite funny!
For once you find yourself defending the people that have complaints about the 997TT.
It's like the board has went through a black hole of role reversal!
Do you see how frustrating it can be to speak to one who thinks that a Porsche badge means brilliance?
Kudos to you for trying!
I thought that would tickle your fancy
. But really, I still believe that the 997TT is an awesome car (and intend to get it), but Ferrari and Lambo (and in some respects even the Z06) are just as good, be it straight-line performance or back roads. I would still respond harshly to unjustified P bashing, but much of what is said here with regard to criticism is well and truly based on facts.
Apr 25, 2007 10:53:24 AM
- KresoF1
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- Loc: Croatia , Croatia
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- Reply to: turbosteff
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
tortesq1 said:
MKSGR,
I assume from your posts that you are a current 997TT owner. Is that accurate ? Or, did you sell your 997TT ? If no, why don't you sell it for something else that will make you happy, whatever that may be ? It sounds like the turbo isn't your cup of tea. Why waste your precious time constantly badmouthing this particular vehicle. If you are so unhappy with it, just dump it like a bad habit or girlfriend ? Your characterizing the TT like its some kind of disease. So, treat it like one and cut it out of your life. FWIW, what vehicles DO you like as daily drivers ? Just interested, since you seem like a real hard ass viz a viz the 997TT. I thought another guy on this list dumped his TT and purchased an F430 (dingleberry ?). Maybe you should follow suit. Life is too short to be so unhappy. Just my 2 cents.
My case s special: I had looked forward to ordering a new 997TT to replace my previous 996TTS until the first rumours/news about the 997TT came out. Let me say, our ex-ante expectations were pretty high (you can read them on rennteam if you use the search function).
Then came the frustrating news: not enough power, old 5-gear Tip, manual slower than Tip, etc. etc. Since then, the negative news flow has continued, the latest pieces of information being insufficient development work done on new AWD system and poor lap times compared to the 996TT.
Regarding my potential ordering of a 997TT I have taken the decision not to buy this car. However, this decision was made last fall already.
Having said all that I am still very annoyed about Porsche frustrating long-term customers like me by presenting a car like the 997TTI would have loved to buy a new TT
I can certainly understand why many long time Porsche owners/fans would take this Sport Auto test so hard. It's just one test on a difficult and very long circuit. Sure, I too am puzzled by their findings.
However, even running separate tests with the same car would generate different times. Anyone who follows bike/car racing knows this too well. The better test would be to place both 996tt & 997tt head-to-head with drivers of similar talents on the Ring.
Most, if not all of the negative comments have come from non owners. I would be interested in hearing from those having owned both 996tt & 997tt. Besides RC's somewhat negative comments about its handling characteristics, I don't recall anyone else expressing negative feelings - except its exhaust note.
While I am very happy with my choice, I wasn't a 996tt owner and therefore can't make comparisons. As such, I find
this discussion a bit harsh given the 997tt's accomplishments:
1. About as fast as 996GT2MkII (0-200kmh=12sec) or about 2 seconds faster than the 996tt.
2. Appears to lap Ring in similar time???
3. Laps Ring as fast as Gallardo SE/F430 - both mid-engined, hardcore, 2 seater Sports Cars.
4. Costs (in USA) about half of F430 (incl.premiums) and 30-40% less than Gallardo SE.
5. Can be driven year-round - not just 5,000km/yr as G/F.
Yes, it hasn't matched some member's expectations, but please let me know what car, with similar characteristics, is better?
If you had to jump to a 599 to satisfy your requirements, great. But that is one heck of a $$$ leap. Enjoy.
By the way, just hope it laps the Ring as fast. The following times are listed for Ferraris:
1. 7'55" F430F1 - Sport Auto
2. 7'56" 360 Challenge Stradale - Sport Auto
3. 8'05" 575M Maranello - 580hp - Sport Auto
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
MP,
Good pragmatic response from someone who actually OWNS a 997TT. I agree with all you stated and would love to hear from others who actually own the vehicle with respect to their real life daily driving experiences (not internet trolls who get their "driving" exposure from reading magazine articles).
Good pragmatic response from someone who actually OWNS a 997TT. I agree with all you stated and would love to hear from others who actually own the vehicle with respect to their real life daily driving experiences (not internet trolls who get their "driving" exposure from reading magazine articles).
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
mp said:
If you had to jump to a 599 to satisfy your requirements, great. But that is one heck of a $$$ leap. Enjoy.
By the way, just hope it laps the Ring as fast. The following times are listed for Ferraris:
1. 7'55" F430F1 - Sport Auto
2. 7'56" 360 Challenge Stradale - Sport Auto
3. 8'05" 575M Maranello - 580hp - Sport Auto
Little correction: the 575M Maranello has 515 hp.
BTW Markus, I drove the 599 today, absolutely astonishing car.
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
mp said:
If you had to jump to a 599 to satisfy your requirements, great. But that is one heck of a $$$ leap. Enjoy.
By the way, just hope it laps the Ring as fast. The following times are listed for Ferraris:
1. 7'55" F430F1 - Sport Auto
2. 7'56" 360 Challenge Stradale - Sport Auto
3. 8'05" 575M Maranello - 580hp - Sport Auto
Little correction: the 575M Maranello has 515 hp.
BTW Markus, I drove the 599 today, absolutely astonishing car.
Sssshhhhh! You might prevent him from considering the Rt12
.And yes, the 599 is the supercar of choice with unlimited funds
.
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
mp said:
If you had to jump to a 599 to satisfy your requirements, great. But that is one heck of a $$$ leap. Enjoy.
By the way, just hope it laps the Ring as fast. The following times are listed for Ferraris:
1. 7'55" F430F1 - Sport Auto
2. 7'56" 360 Challenge Stradale - Sport Auto
3. 8'05" 575M Maranello - 580hp - Sport Auto
Little correction: the 575M Maranello has 515 hp.
BTW Markus, I drove the 599 today, absolutely astonishing car.
Sssshhhhh! You might prevent him from considering the Rt12
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
mp said:
If you had to jump to a 599 to satisfy your requirements, great. But that is one heck of a $$$ leap. Enjoy.
By the way, just hope it laps the Ring as fast. The following times are listed for Ferraris:
1. 7'55" F430F1 - Sport Auto
2. 7'56" 360 Challenge Stradale - Sport Auto
3. 8'05" 575M Maranello - 580hp - Sport Auto
BTW Markus, I drove the 599 today, absolutely astonishing car.
Good to know
What did you like / dislike most?Would be very interesting to hear about your experience
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Good to know
Would be very interesting to hear about your experience
In short:
The F599 Fiorano is an unbelievable car. Power is endless, F1 Superfast is perfect, gears are "shot" in, no gearchange as you know it. Yet the car is so comfortable, no matter which Manettino-position you select (I drove in Race all the time BTW
). Sound of the Enzo engine is fantastic, but it's still possible to drive it rather quietly if you want. Chassis is astonishing when it's dry. Interior is spacious and typically Ferrari. Very nice blend of materials. New racing seats are the best of both worlds, I will definitely get them in the F430 successor if they will be available there also. Brakes (CCM) are a perfect match for the power. What I don't like about the car? Not many things. It's rather big, it's rather heavy. But different to a M6 for example (which I drove over the weekend), you never think that the 599 has too less power or that the heavy weight is too much at low revs. The 599 is just so nimble, simply unbelievable for such type of car.
For me the biggest disadvantage is the fact, that the 599 is no midengined and (relatively) light sports car. That's why I'm looking forward to the F430 successor so much - the F430 is such a great car, if I think of it with the new goodies from the 599 like chassis setup and F1 Superfast, I can hardly wait.
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
tortesq1 said:
MP,
Good pragmatic response from someone who actually OWNS a 997TT. I agree with all you stated and would love to hear from others who actually own the vehicle with respect to their real life daily driving experiences (not internet trolls who get their "driving" exposure from reading magazine articles).
Thanks Tortesq1,
As an owner it is harder to read negative comments, but Porsche needs to feel the heat. The competition has made great strides and the Turbo isn't as "leading edge" as it once was - albiet, still a terrific car.
I try to base my own judgements on an overall basis rather than just a single magazine, regardless of its reputation, or a single track figure. You know what they say here "Sh?t happens" -excuse my language. You just never know what occured during the testing proceedure - was the car 100% or an abused test mule? Did the driver feel O.K. or did he have a cold/flu etc. Just an example of what can make a difference lapping a track, not to mention a place like the Ring - over 20km long, where differences aren't measured in fractions of a second but in several seconds, at the very least.
If some members aren't happy, that's O.K. Personally, I get excited everytime I drive it! And I should mention that while we may not be able to speed for long stretches here in the USA, with current traffic congestion, even on superhighways in EU, how can anyone safely hit speeds of 300+kmh and stay there for any length of time without having to pass someone - a very dangerous proposition, given how other drivers frequently forget to check their rearview mirrors before passing!!
In addition, I frequently can test the handling of my turbo on many beautiful roads, just north of NYC. Again, at 8/10's, since on public roads you just can't take that kind of risk - seen too many horrible accidents, especially with motorcycles coming the other way.
As for the 599 - what's there not to like?? The car has an Enzo engine, is NA, has leading edge suspension, transmission etc.
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
MP,
Again, I could not agree with you more. If I had my druthers I would call Gianni at LI Ferrari and give him my order for the 599. But, the 599 would be less optimal for me than the TT for many practical reasons: 1. its raining in NY right now - inclement weather would be one reason; 2. running errand with kids on weekends - no backseat in 599; 3. relative deminimus repair expense on TT vs. 599 - I have been known to nick a few fenders; these are just a few. Again, no rationale person would pick the TT over the 599, but its like comparing apples to oranges, like comparing Kim Basinger to Claudia Schiffer or Giselle Bunchen. They both get you where you want to go, but one is a 1 night stand (or maybe a few nights) and the other you leave your wife for and give her ALL of your assets.
Again, I could not agree with you more. If I had my druthers I would call Gianni at LI Ferrari and give him my order for the 599. But, the 599 would be less optimal for me than the TT for many practical reasons: 1. its raining in NY right now - inclement weather would be one reason; 2. running errand with kids on weekends - no backseat in 599; 3. relative deminimus repair expense on TT vs. 599 - I have been known to nick a few fenders; these are just a few. Again, no rationale person would pick the TT over the 599, but its like comparing apples to oranges, like comparing Kim Basinger to Claudia Schiffer or Giselle Bunchen. They both get you where you want to go, but one is a 1 night stand (or maybe a few nights) and the other you leave your wife for and give her ALL of your assets.
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
tortesq1 said:
MP,
Again, I could not agree with you more. If I had my druthers I would call Gianni at LI Ferrari and give him my order for the 599. But, the 599 would be less optimal for me than the TT for many practical reasons: 1. its raining in NY right now - inclement weather would be one reason; 2. running errand with kids on weekends - no backseat in 599; 3. relative deminimus repair expense on TT vs. 599 - I have been known to nick a few fenders; these are just a few. Again, no rationale person would pick the TT over the 599, but its like comparing apples to oranges, like comparing Kim Basinger to Claudia Schiffer or Giselle Bunchen. They both get you where you want to go, but one is a 1 night stand (or maybe a few nights) and the other you leave your wife for and give her ALL of your assets.
Tortes,
But there some important part that you missing.
All your entire life you would not forget that "One Night"
just wanted to say not to offense you . Just kidding
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Even on superhighways in EU, how can anyone safely hit speeds of 300+kmh and stay there for any length of time without having to pass someone - a very dangerous proposition, given how other drivers frequently forget to check their rearview mirrors before passing!
+++ I slow down to 260 km/h while overtaking on the autobahn. And slower if the car in front looks like it might pull out to overtake another vehicle. Safety is my first priority. After speed.
BTW, the 997 Turbo is a near perfect all-weather autobahn rocket and general sports car. Its problems only become evident when it is pushed hard on a track or on fast and empty back roads.
+++ I slow down to 260 km/h while overtaking on the autobahn. And slower if the car in front looks like it might pull out to overtake another vehicle. Safety is my first priority. After speed.
BTW, the 997 Turbo is a near perfect all-weather autobahn rocket and general sports car. Its problems only become evident when it is pushed hard on a track or on fast and empty back roads.
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Nurburgring Track Times
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073
7:28 --- 166.652 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, Walther Roehrl,(Autobild 07/04
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/ ??? kg, Michelin Cup Sport tyres (Motortrend)
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073
7:28 --- 166.652 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, Walther Roehrl,(Autobild 07/04
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/ ??? kg, Michelin Cup Sport tyres (Motortrend)
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
CGT1178 said:
Nurburgring Track Times
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073
7:28 --- 166.652 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, Walther Roehrl,(Autobild 07/04
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/ ??? kg, Michelin Cup Sport tyres (Motortrend)
+++ Please read the previous threads. The MT times are imaginary.
Sport Auto provides the most (only) reliable comparison of Ring times with the least amount of variables.
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
Quote:
AUM said:
Even on superhighways in EU, how can anyone safely hit speeds of 300+kmh and stay there for any length of time without having to pass someone - a very dangerous proposition, given how other drivers frequently forget to check their rearview mirrors before passing!
+++ I slow down to 260 km/h while overtaking on the autobahn. And slower if the car in front looks like it might pull out to overtake another vehicle. Safety is my first priority. After speed.
BTW, the 997 Turbo is a near perfect all-weather autobahn rocket and general sports car. Its problems only become evident when it is pushed hard on a track or on fast and empty back roads.
Your the man!!
Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...
AUM,
Very well said. Most of us do not track our cars every week, if ever. I never tracked my 03 X50, but could regularly hit 140-145 mph (literally every single day) on one stretch of desolate road in LI,NY. My fear was never a ticket, but a slower moving vehicle or an animal crossing the road (deer, dog, etc.). Safety first, speed second. I think the new PCCB in the 997TT I'm expecting delivering on will provide outstanding braking. However, regardless of braking power, if your doing 300 km p/hr. and something gets in your way .....your definitely looking at a major FUBAR. I just don't get how certain drivers, like a VR Alexander, can hit 200 mph regularly on a normal highway and never have an unfortunate incident (love watching some of the crazy videos). Some drop the hammer drivers are truly lucky in life (at least with respect to avoiding accidents).
Very well said. Most of us do not track our cars every week, if ever. I never tracked my 03 X50, but could regularly hit 140-145 mph (literally every single day) on one stretch of desolate road in LI,NY. My fear was never a ticket, but a slower moving vehicle or an animal crossing the road (deer, dog, etc.). Safety first, speed second. I think the new PCCB in the 997TT I'm expecting delivering on will provide outstanding braking. However, regardless of braking power, if your doing 300 km p/hr. and something gets in your way .....your definitely looking at a major FUBAR. I just don't get how certain drivers, like a VR Alexander, can hit 200 mph regularly on a normal highway and never have an unfortunate incident (love watching some of the crazy videos). Some drop the hammer drivers are truly lucky in life (at least with respect to avoiding accidents).
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