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    Apr 10, 2007 8:10:58 PM

    WhiteKnight
    Newbie
    WhiteKnight
    Loc: Turkey
    Posts: 48, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 12, 2003

    Tiptronic Power Limit


    Hi guys,

    I bought 997 TT Tiptronic and

    i would like to learn the limit of the TIP gearbox before starting tuning.

    I have talked with FVD Germany today, and they said they dont give warranty to the transmission with their 610hp package. They are not sure if the stock TIP tranny would handle the 610hp package.

    Anyone have reliable info about this ?

    Thanks
    Emre

    Apr 10, 2007 8:29:56 PM

    Nick_Athens Offline
    Senior
    Nick_Athens
    Loc: Greece , Greece
    Posts: 710, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 23, 2004
    Reply to: WhiteKnight

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Welcome to the club!

    Apr 11, 2007 4:48:32 AM

    WhoopsyM Offline
    Rennteam Moderator
    Whoopsy
    Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada
    Posts: 16151, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 19, 2006
    Reply to: Nick_Athens

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Emre, welcome to the owner club

    The tip gearbox in the 997 TT is sourced from Mercedes, same 5-speed in the AMG models and those are as bulletproof as they get in a transmission. You know, if the gearbox can handle those torque monsters from AMG, I am sure it can handle that 610hp package.

    Apr 11, 2007 10:03:45 AM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: WhoopsyM

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Emre, welcome to the owner club

    The tip gearbox in the 997 TT is sourced from Mercedes, same 5-speed in the AMG models and those are as bulletproof as they get in a transmission. You know, if the gearbox can handle those torque monsters from AMG, I am sure it can handle that 610hp package.



    Not exactly correct. The 5-speed used in the SL55 isn't the same as the one that the 65 uses (despite popular opinion). The 65 transmission is beefed up to handle the extra torque. I believe the Turbo uses the transmission which is used in the 55 models and thus won't be able to go much past 800 Nm (ask some guys at MBWorld who are tuning their AMGs). It is true however that the transmission can be uprated to SL65 strength quite easily.

    Apr 12, 2007 12:36:48 AM

    WhoopsyM Offline
    Rennteam Moderator
    Whoopsy
    Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada
    Posts: 16151, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 19, 2006
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    You are correct, Turbo gets the 55 version, not the 65/SLR beefed up version.

    I believe the 65/SLR version goes up to 1000Nm.

    Apr 12, 2007 11:14:58 AM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: WhoopsyM

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    You are correct, Turbo gets the 55 version, not the 65/SLR beefed up version.

    I believe the 65/SLR version goes up to 1000Nm.



    Yup.

    Apr 12, 2007 11:07:53 PM

    tortesq1
    Co-Pilot
    tortesq1
    Loc: Long Island, NY
    Posts: 172, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 1, 2006
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Crash,

    1. What is 800 NM when converted to HP./LB. of TQ. (forgive my ignorance) ?
    2. How is the tip tranny beefed up to 65 level and what is the cost for same ?
    3. No tuner, including Todd at EVO, has to my knowledge, come out with a tip tranny kit to permit the increased HP/TQ. Why is that ? EVO does not indicate that their stage 4 kit (610 crank HP) requires a beefed up tranny. Are they wrong or is that pretty much the limit of the 55 tranny ?

    Apr 13, 2007 2:13:28 AM

    WhoopsyM Offline
    Rennteam Moderator
    Whoopsy
    Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada
    Posts: 16151, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 19, 2006
    Reply to: tortesq1

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    800Nm = just over 590lb-ft

    1000Nm = just over 737lb-ft

    1 Nm = 0.73756lb-ft
    1 lb-ft = 1.35582 Nm

    I think the 610hp package don't increase the torque peak by much, it's probably still within the gearbox's limit.

    Apr 14, 2007 4:05:00 AM

    tortesq1
    Co-Pilot
    tortesq1
    Loc: Long Island, NY
    Posts: 172, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 1, 2006
    Reply to: WhoopsyM

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Whoopsy,

    Thanks for the response.

    Apr 19, 2007 1:17:52 AM

    GA997S
    Veteran
    GA997S
    Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA
    Posts: 1059, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 19, 2005
    Reply to: WhiteKnight

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    WhiteKnight said:

    Hi guys,

    I bought 997 TT Tiptronic and

    i would like to learn the limit of the TIP gearbox before starting tuning.

    I have talked with FVD Germany today, and they said they dont give warranty to the transmission with their 610hp package. They are not sure if the stock TIP tranny would handle the 610hp package.

    Anyone have reliable info about this ?

    Thanks
    Emre



    Congrats!

    Four years & seven months...wow!

    Apr 19, 2007 9:26:25 AM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: GA997S

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    GA997S said:
    Quote:
    WhiteKnight said:

    Hi guys,

    I bought 997 TT Tiptronic and

    i would like to learn the limit of the TIP gearbox before starting tuning.

    I have talked with FVD Germany today, and they said they dont give warranty to the transmission with their 610hp package. They are not sure if the stock TIP tranny would handle the 610hp package.

    Anyone have reliable info about this ?

    Thanks
    Emre



    Congrats!

    Four years & seven months...wow!



    Yep.

    Apr 20, 2007 8:43:50 AM

    WhoopsyM Offline
    Rennteam Moderator
    Whoopsy
    Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada
    Posts: 16151, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 19, 2006
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    An interesting tidbits I have found, the Tip in the 996 Turbo is also sourced from MB, and it has a limit of 580Nm. The 996 Turbo S uses the exact same gearbox without any structural reinforcement and the Turbo S engine produces 620Nm as oppose to 560Nm from the Turbo engine.

    Porsche designated this transmission internally as A96/50, and it's also used in the all the 2wd 996s. 4wd 996s excluding the Turbos used another version designated as A96/51.

    The Tip in the 997 Turbo is a "mechanically improved resulting in greater strength for enhanced stability" version, according to Porsche, of the same gearbox in the 996 Turbo. I think it's the same one as in used in other 997s and it was designated as A97/01.

    Apr 20, 2007 7:43:17 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    GA997S said:
    Quote:
    WhiteKnight said:

    Hi guys,

    I bought 997 TT Tiptronic and

    i would like to learn the limit of the TIP gearbox before starting tuning.

    I have talked with FVD Germany today, and they said they dont give warranty to the transmission with their 610hp package. They are not sure if the stock TIP tranny would handle the 610hp package.

    Anyone have reliable info about this ?

    Thanks
    Emre



    Congrats!

    Four years & seven months...wow!



    Yep.



    Where did you guys learn math?

    I make it 3 years 7 months.

    Don't know if that would qualify for the Guinness Book of Records though.

    Apr 20, 2007 7:51:51 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    GA997S said:
    Quote:
    WhiteKnight said:

    Hi guys,

    I bought 997 TT Tiptronic and

    i would like to learn the limit of the TIP gearbox before starting tuning.

    I have talked with FVD Germany today, and they said they dont give warranty to the transmission with their 610hp package. They are not sure if the stock TIP tranny would handle the 610hp package.

    Anyone have reliable info about this ?

    Thanks
    Emre



    Congrats!

    Four years & seven months...wow!



    Yep.



    Where did you guys learn math?

    I make it 3 years 7 months.

    Don't know if that would qualify for the Guinness Book of Records though.



    Three years, four years, what's the difference?

    Apr 20, 2007 8:28:02 PM

    fritz
    Rennteam VIP
    fritz
    Loc: BaWü , Germany
    Posts: 10248, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 23, 2003
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    GA997S said:
    Quote:
    WhiteKnight said:

    Hi guys,

    I bought 997 TT Tiptronic and

    i would like to learn the limit of the TIP gearbox before starting tuning.

    I have talked with FVD Germany today, and they said they dont give warranty to the transmission with their 610hp package. They are not sure if the stock TIP tranny would handle the 610hp package.

    Anyone have reliable info about this ?

    Thanks
    Emre



    Congrats!

    Four years & seven months...wow!



    Yep.



    Where did you guys learn math?

    I make it 3 years 7 months.

    Don't know if that would qualify for the Guinness Book of Records though.



    Three years, four years, what's the difference?



    One year, of course.

    Man, you really do have a problem with math.

    Apr 21, 2007 1:10:57 AM

    GA997S
    Veteran
    GA997S
    Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA
    Posts: 1059, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 19, 2005
    Reply to: fritz

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    GA997S said:
    Quote:
    WhiteKnight said:

    Hi guys,

    I bought 997 TT Tiptronic and

    i would like to learn the limit of the TIP gearbox before starting tuning.

    I have talked with FVD Germany today, and they said they dont give warranty to the transmission with their 610hp package. They are not sure if the stock TIP tranny would handle the 610hp package.

    Anyone have reliable info about this ?

    Thanks
    Emre



    Congrats!

    Four years & seven months...wow!



    Yep.



    Where did you guys learn math?

    I make it 3 years 7 months.

    Don't know if that would qualify for the Guinness Book of Records though.



    Three years, four years, what's the difference?



    One year, of course.

    Man, you really do have a problem with math.



    sorry...typo.

    Apr 21, 2007 10:52:29 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59581, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: WhiteKnight

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    According to one of our sources, the 997 Turbo uses a "brother" of the SL65 AMG automatic tranny.
    The maximum "supported" torque is rumoured be in the 900 Nm range (for the 997 Turbo Tiptronic), I would stick to figures under 900 Nm to make sure nothing goes wrong. Yes, I know that the SL65 produces 1000 Nm (limited).

    Apr 21, 2007 10:09:39 PM

    tortesq1
    Co-Pilot
    tortesq1
    Loc: Long Island, NY
    Posts: 172, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 1, 2006
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    RC,

    900 NM = how much hp ? 550 ? Is that 900NM at the crank or at the wheels ?

    Apr 21, 2007 11:22:52 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: tortesq1

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    tortesq1 said:
    RC,

    900 NM = how much hp ? 550 ? Is that 900NM at the crank or at the wheels ?



    Horsepower is torque and RPM dependant so you can't say, really. For the 997TT, the 900 Nm limit would mean over 600 bhp, close to 700.

    Apr 22, 2007 4:45:04 PM

    tortesq1
    Co-Pilot
    tortesq1
    Loc: Long Island, NY
    Posts: 172, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 1, 2006
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Crash,

    Is that crank bhp (over 600 close to 700) or at the wheels ? Gotta be crank, right ? Close to 700 at the wheels would be an EXTREME daily driver. Gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. Even EVO's new 690R package isn't even close to 700 at the wheels.

    Apr 22, 2007 4:52:46 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: tortesq1

    Re: Tiptronic Power Limit

    Quote:
    tortesq1 said:
    Crash,

    Is that crank bhp (over 600 close to 700) or at the wheels ? Gotta be crank, right ? Close to 700 at the wheels would be an EXTREME daily driver. Gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. Even EVO's new 690R package isn't even close to 700 at the wheels.



    Yes, it's crank bhp. Euro manufacturers and tuners always give out crank bhp. Also, 700 crank bhp is the upper limit of what a 964 engine can somewhat reliably make in autobahn conditions (think SECAM intercoolers and reinforced everything).
    Then again, for conditions in the US, where all you need the car for are sporadic bursts of mind-numbing acceleration, a 700 WHP car would be quite fun.
    Regarding EVO packages, they are definitely quality, but they cannot be compared to the $100k packages offered by Euro tuners (they are designed for very different uses - Autobahn vs. Drag).
     
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