Crown

Heard a rumor that Porsche may announce a purist oriented Carrera at Frankfurt, slotted between the Carrera and Carrera S.  Anyone heard this, or more?

911 T ?

Yes its the 911T with a turbo ( carrera S engine ) like a "club sport" more oriented driving pleasure ( light etc...) price close to the carrera S and the touring package for GT3 release.

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 993 RS -  991 GT3 RS

Any specific details about either?

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

just news from my dealer today. if I have another I tell you ;)

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 993 RS -  991 GT3 RS

Some photo's from Instagram.

Official photo's.

Live IAA Porsche Press Conference today 11.30:

https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/products/porsche-iaa-2017-novelty-911-cayenne-world-premiere-livestream-press-conference-14118.h...

starts with the cayenne....

what a very good Porsche IAA

--

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 993 RS -  991 GT3 RS

So who wants one? (GT3 Touring Package) 

With PDK and rear seats, I would have ordered one (seriously).

Bye bye, Porsche...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

So who wants one? (GT3 Touring Package) 

With PDK and rear seats, I would have ordered one (seriously).

Bye bye, Porsche...

the touring is just an answer of Porsche to 991 R speculator etc...Congrats Porsche you see a very nice brand image....And respect the real passionate who make the brand stay on track day etc. I wait clearly from Porsche the next convertible Macan turbo GTS 4WD...this is ironic but I take an interest to mclaren, Lamborghini now...

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 993 RS -  991 GT3 RS

The IAA press conference was boring no passion....With no interest, nothing...

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 993 RS -  991 GT3 RS

LP997:

The IAA press conference was boring no passion....With no interest, nothing...

VW Group has serious issues right now to find a direction for the company to move on to. This involves all brands. I guess this reflects in the IAA presentation.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

LP997:

The IAA press conference was boring no passion....With no interest, nothing...

VW Group has serious issues right now to find a direction for the company to move on to. This involves all brands. I guess this reflects in the IAA presentation.

--

 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 

you right but when you have (like all other member on rennteam and you RC) the passion for many years for this brand its hard to see that...

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 993 RS -  991 GT3 RS

Maybe something that got lost with Winterkorn and Piëch? Especially the latter is and was full of excitement for cars and those brands.

By the way, anybody in Frankfurt on Thursday? 😀

Say what you like about the VW Group, they do most of the top cars in the categories they are represented. From superminis to hypercars. From tiny VW UP to the Aventador and beyond to the Chiron  with numerous brilliant cars in between.

Problems and scandals notwithstanding, who else can claim such an exceptional range of cars?

--

"Form follows function"

reginos:

Say what you like about the VW Group, they do most of the top cars in the categories they are represented. From superminis to hypercars. From tiny VW UP to the Aventador and beyond to the Chiron  with numerous brilliant cars in between.

Problems and scandals notwithstanding, who else can claim such an exceptional range of cars?

I agree but you see, this is exactly their problem: How to continue? With the same range, change it completely to ELVs or hybrids or what to do next? So much confusion going on at VW Group right now, you cannot even imagine. They need to plan the future but right now, they face so much headwind and problems (both from politics and the public), they just seem to have lost a clear vision of the future. Very dangerous time for VW Group because the decisions taken today cannot be easily reversed tomorrow.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

reginos:

Say what you like about the VW Group, they do most of the top cars in the categories they are represented. From superminis to hypercars. From tiny VW UP to the Aventador and beyond to the Chiron  with numerous brilliant cars in between.

Problems and scandals notwithstanding, who else can claim such an exceptional range of cars?

I agree but you see, this is exactly their problem: How to continue? With the same range, change it completely to ELVs or hybrids or what to do next? So much confusion going on at VW Group right now, you cannot even imagine. They need to plan the future but right now, they face so much headwind and problems (both from politics and the public), they just seem to have lost a clear vision of the future. Very dangerous time for VW Group because the decisions taken today cannot be easily reversed tomorrow.

+1 

997 GT3 RS 3.6 - 964 RS - 993 RS -  991 GT3 RS

RC:

reginos:

Say what you like about the VW Group, they do most of the top cars in the categories they are represented. From superminis to hypercars. From tiny VW UP to the Aventador and beyond to the Chiron  with numerous brilliant cars in between.

Problems and scandals notwithstanding, who else can claim such an exceptional range of cars?

I agree but you see, this is exactly their problem: How to continue? With the same range, change it completely to ELVs or hybrids or what to do next? So much confusion going on at VW Group right now, you cannot even imagine. They need to plan the future but right now, they face so much headwind and problems (both from politics and the public), they just seem to have lost a clear vision of the future. Very dangerous time for VW Group because the decisions taken today cannot be easily reversed tomorrow.

Piech provided a lot of direction and leadership to Porsche, Audi, and then VW group, guided by his vision and strength of character, but it did not make him popular.  Modern corporations and governments are afraid of strong personalities who have highly focused goals that are potentially controversial. 

"Don't worry about avoiding temptation, as you grow older it will avoid you"  Churchill

Me too. I need the rear seats. Wanted to sell my 991.1 S and get it. I have 2 kids (4 and 2) and with 2 car seats and a yoyo stroller that fits the frunk, it would have been the perfect 911 for us. For now I would just keep the carrera S and see what the future brings.

DaveC:

RC:

reginos:

Say what you like about the VW Group, they do most of the top cars in the categories they are represented. From superminis to hypercars. From tiny VW UP to the Aventador and beyond to the Chiron  with numerous brilliant cars in between.

Problems and scandals notwithstanding, who else can claim such an exceptional range of cars?

I agree but you see, this is exactly their problem: How to continue? With the same range, change it completely to ELVs or hybrids or what to do next? So much confusion going on at VW Group right now, you cannot even imagine. They need to plan the future but right now, they face so much headwind and problems (both from politics and the public), they just seem to have lost a clear vision of the future. Very dangerous time for VW Group because the decisions taken today cannot be easily reversed tomorrow.

Piech provided a lot of direction and leadership to Porsche, Audi, and then VW group, guided by his vision and strength of character, but it did not make him popular.  Modern corporations and governments are afraid of strong personalities who have highly focused goals that are potentially controversial. 

I think it would be a big mistake to rush things and to have a radical direction/strategy change but I'm afraid this is exactly what is going to happen...

The media and politics want ELVs but I think this won't happen easy (or fast), no matter what (wishful thinking) some politicians or even "experts" seem to have.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

So by releasing the manual only no rear seats GT3 touring Porsche manages to upset not only the potential buyers who were hoping for PDK (but will buy higher margins regular 911) AND the R owners who are some of Porsche best customers. Nice one.

They had to leave the T with only MT. Otherwise it would have seriously siphoned off sales from all the other 911's. The T is marketed for a niche group of buyers who would have bought the R if they were allowed to.

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

SciFrog:

So by releasing the manual only no rear seats GT3 touring Porsche manages to upset not only the potential buyers who were hoping for PDK (but will buy higher margins regular 911) AND the R owners who are some of Porsche best customers. Nice one.

Yeah, kind of an "apology" for those who didn't get a 911 R but at the same time pissing off 911 R customers and those who wanted a GT3 without rear wing but with PDK and rear seats. I don't believe a second the claims that there was no demand for a PDK/rear seats Touring Package GT3. They did it by purpose, especially to protect the cheaper to produce Carrera GTS models. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

SciFrog:

So by releasing the manual only no rear seats GT3 touring Porsche manages to upset not only the potential buyers who were hoping for PDK (but will buy higher margins regular 911) AND the R owners who are some of Porsche best customers. Nice one.

Yeah, kind of an "apology" for those who didn't get a 911 R but at the same time pissing off 911 R customers and those who wanted a GT3 without rear wing but with PDK and rear seats. I don't believe a second the claims that there was no demand for a PDK/rear seats Touring Package GT3. They did it by purpose, especially to protect the cheaper to produce Carrera GTS models. 

The R will stay special . Owners should not be too pissed off , unless they only got it to make money .

The R will keep it's value and in 30 years, it will be the model to have from this time . Not the GT3 T .

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

I wouldn't be too sure about the 911 R, I would rather look into the 991.2 GT3 RS.  Last n/a RS and all...maybe. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

 I'm getting quite confused. It seems to me that Porsche has not lost any passion or direction, but is simply offering more options in  each model category. It also seems to me that Porsche is as dedicated as ever to it's racing heritage.  The 919 hybrid program has been a success, and it's entry into formula E will, if the past  is prologue, be successful as well. Meantime, the focus on 911 racing will be sharpened.

I only have two objections to Porsche  now. First the press conferences have turned into circuses, just like the ones at Mercedes. And second, the prices for the cars I desire are high and keep going higher. 

Wonderbar:

 I'm getting quite confused. It seems to me that Porsche has not lost any passion or direction, but is simply offering more options in  each model category. It also seems to me that Porsche is as dedicated as ever to it's racing heritage.  The 919 hybrid program has been a success, and it's entry into formula E will, if the past  is prologue, be successful as well. Meantime, the focus on 911 racing will be sharpened.

I only have two objections to Porsche  now. First the press conferences have turned into circuses, just like the ones at Mercedes. And second, the prices for the cars I desire are high and keep going higher. 

I have a slightly different view on this: I'm really not sure about their dedication or direction that they are taking regarding their racing heritage. They have opted to cancel a very successful LMP1 program alleging the lack of marketing return proportional to the budget spent., and yet are ready to join a series that has little or no marketing return (at least for the foreseeable future) and so applying the same logic, they should not be spending anything on that series. 

They are now looking to supply engines to F1, which ...barring their success in the 80's with the TAG McLaren program, has never been their forte. In fact the footwork program was a disaster and even their short lived  F1 program in the early days yielded one GP victory ...and that was in a race that didn't count for the World Championship. They are not even contemplating (as far as we know) having their own team (unlike their competitors Ferrari and Mercedes). If they don't get it right this time round, there wont be much positive marketing return at all and run the risk of putting their hallowed racing heritage at risk which has taken decades to build but can be destroyed in a few seasons.

As for sportscar racing (their natural home): They are focusing on GTE with a car that is not really a 911 and have no plans (that we know) to produce a road going version of the racing car. Furthermore, they are not partaking in the leading class, but rather focusing on a class where class victories are mainly reliant on BoP, and don't even have an engine that is competitive against the opposition. They are essentially taking a knife to a gun fight.  This to me does not show any real desire to win.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong on all this, but all I hear from Porsche management lately is a lot of  PC mumbo jumbo.

If they are at a loss for direction, why not go back to what they were really good at? Engineering! Focus on producing well engineered and exciting cars and the money will follow. 

Whilst recognizing the worries of many friends of Porsche, personally I am very happy with the evolution of  this marque/brand.

Their cars are among the top in their respective categories, in road manners and quality. I cannot find a car in any category that Porsche is represented that is clearly better, from sportscars to SUVs to limousines. People naturally tend to want change and many drivers change brands but figures show that for everyone who abandons Porsche many more join.

As regards motorsport, there was a lot of moaning after 1998 that Porsche cannot compete in top level racing anymore and that they build SUVs abandoning their racing heritage. Then the 919 came along and everybody was silenced. In the meantime we had the RS Spyder, that was totally dominant in its class in ALMS with many overall wins in spite of being a P2 specification and with two Le Mans class wins.

The new RSR will dominate next season when it will be fully honed and the motorsport department will have its hands free from the P1 commitment.

We've also had the Carrera GT and the 918, cars that are now at the pinnacle of automotive history.

The way I see it, it is very easy for someone to sell a handful of prestige cars that hardly circulate on the roads and appear to excel. But to make a minimum of 20.000 911s p.a. and thousands of SUVs year after year is a proof of a company that knows how to keep customers satisfied.

Porsche is unique in that it can compete with the Ferraris and at the same time with the premium brands. It is the wildcard of the automotive world.

"Form follows function"