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    Apr 19, 2007 9:36:31 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Damn , F430 and Gallardo 04 did beat 997TT on N'ring, i am shocked



    I agree with you, I really do. 7:54? Is THAT what 7 years of evolution brought? 60 more horsepower, advances in suspension and tyre technology, LSD and this car can only muster an extra 2 seconds . I would wager that a 996TT X50 with X73 and LSD can beat this time.

    Apr 19, 2007 9:38:33 PM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Damn , F430 and Gallardo 04 did beat 997TT on N'ring, i am shocked



    Porsche ruined everything they had.

    Shame on these ***** *****. Sorry. This is beyond everything I could have imagined. Porsche srewed it entirely. Shame on them.

    Shame on the 997TT and all those other crappy 997 models. Incredible

    Apr 19, 2007 9:40:31 PM

    VGA18
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    So any guess about Tiptronic better than this??
    Btw hat was 997 GT3 time

    997TT beaten in its own castle.

    Apr 19, 2007 9:41:08 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Damn , F430 and Gallardo 04 did beat 997TT on N'ring, i am shocked



    Porsche ruined everything they had.

    Shame on these ***** *****. Sorry. This is beyond everything I could have imagined. Porsche srewed it entirely. Shame on them.

    Shame on the 997TT and all those other crappy 997 models. Incredible



    Well, that's another way of putting it if you don't want to be overly polite . That being said, yes. Everything you have said is true.

    I think your dealer can now finalize your 599 order .

    Apr 19, 2007 9:41:33 PM

    VGA18
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Damn , F430 and Gallardo 04 did beat 997TT on N'ring, i am shocked



    Porsche ruined everything they had.

    Shame on these ***** *****. Sorry. This is beyond everything I could have imagined. Porsche srewed it entirely. Shame on them.

    Shame on the 997TT and all those other crappy 997 models. Incredible



    I was expecting around 7.47

    Apr 19, 2007 9:42:24 PM

    intouch1
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Damn , F430 and Gallardo 04 did beat 997TT on N'ring, i am shocked




    no, they didnt !

    Apr 19, 2007 9:42:28 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    So, we now know few things more...

    Hockenheim 1.11,9min
    Nordschleife 7.54min
    997tt manual, LSD, PCCBs, Michelin Cups

    Well, here is my brief opinion why are the times not so good...

    997tt is still excellent car IMHO but, Porsche new PTM setup is pretty responsible for really strange lack of traction in enthusiastic drive style condition(dry road!). Until say it 7/10 driving everything is ok but, after is things start to become more tricky IMO. Here is a perfect description of my thoughs from EVO:
    "The Turbo feels compact, as you'd expect, but it also feels stubbier than other 997s. Whether this is due to the widened rear track I'm not sure, but the Turbo definitely feels different.

    Our first flying lap is breathless, not just due to the stonking power (it peaks 9mph faster than the Evo) and eye-popping braking, but because it's proving a real handful. And I mean a real handful. Familiarity would surely smooth some of the rough edges from my inputs, but nevertheless the Turbo feels like a car at war with itself as much as with the circuit.

    I'm more aware of the rear-biased mass than in any other 997, and all corners bar the slow Hangar hairpin are accompanied by a pendulous sway of turn-in oversteer. It's not catastrophic, but feels significant enough to need gathering up, and you have to get that done before you can focus on finding your apex. It's a process made harder by a curious lack of feedback through the steering - just at the point you need to commit to your line. With the oversteer controlled and the Turbo apparently back on course, you squeeze on the power, only to find that it begins to understeer, imperceptibly at first, then more insistently as you attempt to get the power down. So you blend out of the throttle to regain front-end bite, only for the tail to feel light again...

    It's a frustrating, scrappy way to make progress. "

    Still, IMHO 997tt is a great car for "Kenner"(great German word!).

    Gallardo is still the most balanced of all cars in its class and new SL version will be the new Sport Auto Supertest both on Hockenheim and on the Ring...

    BTW, next issue Vette Z06 Supertest? Faster then 997tt on both tracks...

    BUT, in real life and on the autobahn 997tt is still the fastest car in 99% of situations.

    Apr 19, 2007 9:42:59 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Damn , F430 and Gallardo 04 did beat 997TT on N'ring, i am shocked



    Porsche ruined everything they had.

    Shame on these ***** *****. Sorry. This is beyond everything I could have imagined. Porsche srewed it entirely. Shame on them.

    Shame on the 997TT and all those other crappy 997 models. Incredible



    I was expecting around 7.47



    Yeah. I thought that the worst case scenario would be around 7:49. 7:54... They have got to be kidding.

    Apr 19, 2007 9:44:14 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    So any guess about Tiptronic better than this??
    Btw hat was 997 GT3 time

    997TT beaten in its own castle.



    997tt TIP version is slower on both tracks then manual version with LSD. Trust me on this!

    Apr 19, 2007 9:45:45 PM

    VGA18
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:


    BUT, in real life and on the autobahn 997tt is still the fastest car in 99% of situations.



    Kreso world is changing!!!

    What i am shocked is , most of Porsche fans adores Porsche N'ring times and do not interested on autobahn challenges

    Apr 19, 2007 9:46:39 PM

    VGA18
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Opps any possibility Saurma drunk??

    Apr 19, 2007 9:47:46 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Opps any possibility Saurma drunk??



    No. Perhaps he mistook the Turbo for a Ferrari and drove really, really slowly?

    (Just making fun of some who think von Saurma is biased.)

    Apr 19, 2007 9:50:49 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Opps any possibility Saurma drunk??



    In fact he did! Way too much RED BULL!

    Apr 19, 2007 9:55:41 PM

    VGA18
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Now its time to have a silence here....

    Apr 19, 2007 10:02:16 PM

    Ferdie
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    It is in fact astonishing how remarkable the std. GT3 performed in SA's SuperTest. It was faster on the Nürburgring but performed significantly better on the wet handling circuit. That is, to me, the most remarkable achievement. Compared to the RS and the TT this car must be by far the best value if it comes down to overall performance. Judging from one of SA's pictures the TPMS display shows a lack of tire pressure of .4 bar on the rear tires - I can only assume that von Saurma played around with the tire pressures to solve the above mentioned handling difficulties on the Nürburgring lap. After all I do have the feeling that the car would achieve a sub 7.50 lap with a few adjustments and sufficient experience with the car.


    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Next Supertest is supposed to feature the Corvette Z06.



    Let me guess: 7:54.5 .



    Apr 19, 2007 10:05:56 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Ferdie,

    Problem is in that "revolutionary" PTM setup...
    Von Saurma knows pretty well how to drive all 911 models IMHO...

    Apr 19, 2007 10:19:56 PM

    VGA18
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Kreso i really wonder how you take these times before publish

    Apr 20, 2007 12:11:54 AM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Next Supertest is supposed to feature the Corvette Z06.



    Let me guess: 7:54.5 .





    Hey guy's cut the 997TT a break. For an all around car it is damn good..ugly but good.

    BTW, my guess is that Von Saurma must had a falling out with Porsche and began to post accurate numbers. It really is strange that a 997TT is only one second faster than the 996TT which has 65 less hp.

    Porsche better start greasing the skids again.

    Apr 20, 2007 7:15:46 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Damn , F430 and Gallardo 04 did beat 997TT on N'ring, i am shocked



    Porsche ruined everything they had.

    Shame on these ***** *****. Sorry. This is beyond everything I could have imagined. Porsche srewed it entirely. Shame on them.

    Shame on the 997TT and all those other crappy 997 models. Incredible



    Well, that's another way of putting it if you don't want to be overly polite . That being said, yes. Everything you have said is true.

    I think your dealer can now finalize your 599 order .



    That is so true. Porsche has dropped out of the performance sports car segment as it appears...

    Apr 20, 2007 7:22:32 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: VGA18

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:


    BUT, in real life and on the autobahn 997tt is still the fastest car in 99% of situations.



    Kreso world is changing!!!

    What i am shocked is , most of Porsche fans adores Porsche N'ring times and do not interested on autobahn challenges



    As it appears, Porsche is second best now in all categories: Autobahn and Track.

    I would go as far as that no serious sports car enthusiast can order a 997TT based in these results All competitors are faster (Gallardo, Z06) or at least as fast as the 997TT (F430). The picture gets even darker if you recognize that the competitors are on the market for years now whereas the 997TT is brand-new.

    I cannot bevlieve it. Cancel your 997TT orders. That is the only appropriate answer to Porsche for delivering such a mess

    Apr 20, 2007 7:25:00 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    It is in fact astonishing how remarkable the std. GT3 performed in SA's SuperTest.



    Please recall that the brand-new 997GT3 is not faster than its predecessor either. Porsche screwed the entire 997 product range as it seems, the TT being a new benchmark in terms of "screwing"

    Apr 20, 2007 7:31:35 AM

    andrea
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    disappointing data

    Apr 20, 2007 8:44:51 AM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: andrea

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    andrea said:
    disappointing data



    If you consider that the 997S clocked 8:05 on normal tires whereas the TT has been equipped with sports tires (which may provide an advantage of 5 sec ) it's astonishing how close the laptimes are...

    Apr 20, 2007 9:25:01 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Ferdie said:
    Next Supertest is supposed to feature the Corvette Z06.



    Let me guess: 7:54.5 .





    Hey guy's cut the 997TT a break. For an all around car it is damn good..ugly but good.

    BTW, my guess is that Von Saurma must had a falling out with Porsche and began to post accurate numbers. It really is strange that a 997TT is only one second faster than the 996TT which has 65 less hp.

    Porsche better start greasing the skids again.



    Nick, the old 996TT posted a 7:56 (not 7:55, that was the 430). It really disappoints me that 60 extra horsepower, LSD, advanced suspension technology and advanced tyre technology (the car even had Michelin CUP tyres) are unable to dip below 7:50. Not sure why I would want to spend close to 200.000 Euros on a 997TT (thus stretching my budget to the max), when I can get the same performance for 70.000 Euros on a 3-year-old 996TTS .

    Apr 20, 2007 9:26:23 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    andrea said:
    disappointing data



    If you consider that the 997S clocked 8:05 on normal tires whereas the TT has been equipped with sports tires (which may provide an advantage of 5 sec ) it's astonishing how close the laptimes are...



    You know, it stupefies me to think that the new Turbo may be SLOWER than the 996TT on the Nring on standard tyres .

    Apr 20, 2007 9:42:10 AM

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Seems to me that this time of 7:54 makes the marketing hype about "Masterwerk" ring hollow...

    Apr 20, 2007 10:02:33 AM

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Seems to me that this time of 7:54 makes the marketing hype about "Masterwerk" ring hollow...



    Maybe still a Masterwerk, but aimed at another audience compared to the old times....

    Apr 20, 2007 10:06:05 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Seems to me that this time of 7:54 makes the marketing hype about "Masterwerk" ring hollow...



    Maybe still a Masterwerk, but aimed at another audience compared to the old times....



    I cannot see anything which would justify the term "Masterwerk" in case of the 997TT Maybe "Mittelmaß" would be better suited...

    Apr 20, 2007 10:12:53 AM

    Super DariusM
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    Reply to: Ferdie

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    "BUT, in real life and on the autobahn 997tt is still the fastest car in 99% of situations"

    i read this and i'm HAPPYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

    Apr 20, 2007 10:23:48 AM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: 997 turbo Supertest in Sport Auto...

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Seems to me that this time of 7:54 makes the marketing hype about "Masterwerk" ring hollow...



    Maybe still a Masterwerk, but aimed at another audience compared to the old times....



    I cannot see anything which would justify the term "Masterwerk" in case of the 997TT Maybe "Mittelmaß" would be better suited...



    The only car that I would dub a "Meisterwerk" would be the 599 GTB. Fast, comfortable, has a big boot and elegant. Too bad I can't afford one .
     
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