Apr 17, 2007 4:54:30 PM
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95jersey said:
This is the BEST site I have come accross
http://www.race-cars.com/
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95jersey said:
Also, a couple quick points from someone with about 100 track days under his belt in a variety of cars over several years.
In the end, whether you decide to pick a street car or a true race car, are you willing to lose all your money in case you crash it? Put maintenance and running costs aside for a moment...
With a race car, insurance is expensive and hard to find, especially on something historic. And insurance will not cover you in wheel to wheel racing...you are on your own. If you plan to do only track days, then you can get track day insurance, but it is still expensive and the deductibles are VERY high (like $5000-$10,000k).
The advantage for using a street car for track days are two:
1) Insurance - You can get normal, relatively cheap street insurance that will cover high speed driving schools as long as they are not timed or there are no winners/losers. Most insurance companies will cover you (make sure) and your premiums are no more than simple street insurance with normal deductables.
2) Warranty...this is PRICELESS for track days. What happens if you blow the motor, rear, trans...have leaks, electronic problems. Most track day cars (radical, Atom) don't come with warranties. The question is not if you will break something, it is WHEN. So as long as you don't heavily modify the car, your warranty should cover the problems. Just take out your harness before you go in for warranty work.
If you can afford to lose $25k and are not worried about maintenance cost, you still need to choose a car that compliments your technical ability. You don't want to buy some very complicated sports racer with pushrod suspension, a complex sequential transmission, and quad carburated Hayabusa motor that need maintenance/adjustments every step of the way. You will be wrenching more than driving.
So, in my advice your choice should be based on your technical ability to maintain/prepare the car, your threshold to walk away after a crash and lose all your money, and MOST importantly SAFETY. Most track cars never had to pass ANY safety test or crash tests. Keep this in mind!
So, for me personally, after 100 track days and driving many types of cars, with a decent purse, after going back and forth several times, I have decided that a fast street car under warranty, with no mods (except safety), is the best way to go. I get a well engineered vehicle with crash/crumple zones, airbags, a warranty, cheap street insurance, and I can drive the car to and from the track all day long. I don't need to worry about maintaining complex suspension or sequential transmissions.
For this I have choosen and always did a Corvette, simply becuase it is so fast for the price, but is a factory warrantied car that any Chevy dealer in 1000 towns can work on.
So, when looking at buying a track car, don't just use your heart, use your brain and buy something you can REALLY live with.
Apr 17, 2007 7:44:35 PM
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Porsche-Jeck said:
The Cup Clios are really fast (and I'm sure they are fun to drive also), though you might ask some owners about reliability/maintenance costs etc.
Apr 17, 2007 8:05:36 PM
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95jersey said:
2) Warranty...this is PRICELESS for track days. What happens if you blow the motor, rear, trans...have leaks, electronic problems. Most track day cars (radical, Atom) don't come with warranties. The question is not if you will break something, it is WHEN. So as long as you don't heavily modify the car, your warranty should cover the problems. Just take out your harness before you go in for warranty work.
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JimFlat6 said:
Before buying any street type race car,at least get a demo drive or take a drivers clinic in a open wheeler. They are frknnn awesome to drive. You won't regret it.
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pierre said:Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
The Cup Clios are really fast (and I'm sure they are fun to drive also), though you might ask some owners about reliability/maintenance costs etc.
Got a brand new Clio Cup III 2 months ago!
So far, I've only driven it a little bit on open roads (first drive, couldn't wait, almost legally...) and a few laps on the track in Bresse/F. The car is now at the N'ring, getting prepared and fine-tuned for the next VLN race in 10 days.
So not much first hand experience yet, but I know 2 other similar cars that have been doing last year's VLN season with absolutely no reliability issues. Besides, spare parts are said to be quite cheap and maintenance easy.
But of course, this is a track-only toy. Not really what Dr Phil is looking for...
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Dr. Phil said:
Pierre: How much will a Renault like yours cost?
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Dr. Phil said:
Looking for something to use exclusively on the track - primarily trackday use.
Therefore it has to be sharp, direct, responsive, light, fast, easy and affordable to maintain, low consumption of tires/fuel.
Budget around 25.000 Euro .
I am looking at
* Lotus Elise (preferably new model)
* Lotus 7
* Caterham
* Donkervoort (probably way too expensive)
* Renault spider
* Opel Speedster
Right now I am leaning towards an Elise or Opel Speedster.
Any input or other suggestions would be appreciated
Has to be left-hand drive, so I wont buy a British car
Apr 18, 2007 11:38:19 AM
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Grant said:Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Ariel Atom?
Radical?
Those are way more than his budget of 25k Euros, no?
I would go with a used Caterham or a used 911 track car with all the mods already done.
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Dr. Phil said:Quote:
95jersey said:
This is the BEST site I have come accross
http://www.race-cars.com/
WHOA! WHOA! WOW!! Totally cool. I wont be talking to GF tonight!....Me got cars to browse! Thanks.
Apr 18, 2007 4:48:31 PM
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Dr. Phil said:Quote:
95jersey said:
This is the BEST site I have come accross
http://www.race-cars.com/
WHOA! WHOA! WOW!! Totally cool. I wont be talking to GF tonight!....Me got cars to browse! Thanks.
Apr 18, 2007 10:28:45 PM
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easy_rider911 said:Quote:
Grant said:Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Ariel Atom?
Radical?
Those are way more than his budget of 25k Euros, no?
I would go with a used Caterham or a used 911 track car with all the mods already done.
You can buy them in 'kit' form, build them yourself and they cost a fair bit less! I don't know the exact details though...
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Byron said:
For details about the Ultima, please check
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/
Or the Forum of owners (the majority built their cars, and the forum is specialy technical oriented):
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?f=20&h=0
With the Ultima, many pockets can fit a project. Even the "cheapest" gives as a result an extremely fast car. You can go from 300 HP (with a very reasonable budget) to 720 HP (If you build it yourself -average time: 12 months, but this can be largely shotened-, madly inexpensive. If it's factory built, arround 100K euro, (as far as I remember), with the "big" engine -Chevy V8 - not expensive and easy to mantain...And with an impressive performance (if talking about the top configuration, faster than a Veyron....but considering the "lowest", faster than a GT3.....And road legal!!)
Apr 19, 2007 11:08:33 AM
Apr 20, 2007 12:21:26 PM
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BC911 said:
Yeah, I dont think it will be a problem to get to drive it on the street... Performance is amazing! Heres a guy who races one over here and is beating cars like a 996 GT2RSR (i think thats the one). Faster than a Veyron!? WOW