Apr 17, 2007 3:04:40 PM
- newboxster
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
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Apr 17, 2007 3:19:34 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
A bit of a touchy subject from the politically-correct point of view, in that promoting the "S" always makes some non-S owner go on a rant about how us S owners can't tell the power difference, and don't "USE" the extra power anyhow....
Ummm, whatever...
Bottom line, it depends on where your priorities sit... The wheel/tire combination on the standard car is said to ride/drive a bit better, as is the usual when you compare against larger and lower-profile.. And the PASM on the S gets mixed reviews, whereas the the setup on the standard 997 gets raved as being "just right".
After those very (in my opinion) VALID accolades for the standard car, the rest of the comparison gets mired in "you don't really "need" that, and you won't really "use" that.
Such as the standard brakes are so good, why do you need better brakes?
The 3.6 is so zippy, why do you need the 3.8??
To me, that's a glass-half-full approach to buying a road rocket... If all you want is "what you need", then get a damn Miata. By all means, by that defeatist logic, just keep your Boxster..
But if you want the best bang your money can buy, look at the S from the standpoint of THE ENTIRE PACKAGE. When you look at all the equipment you get for $10K, more displacement, better brakes, bigger wheels/tires, bi-xenon, etc.etc..., even if you dislike the PASM, you may still find that the extra money is one hell of a decent deal for what you get.
There's a school of thought where "fast enough" is good enough, and another school of thought where "I can get all these upgrades for how much? Absolutely!!!"
Only you know how your noggin is programmed, and of course, there's the finances factor that may weigh in...
If you can comfortably afford an S, I'd say go for it. I know that I wouldn't change my car one iota to get my $10 grand back...
Ummm, whatever...
Bottom line, it depends on where your priorities sit... The wheel/tire combination on the standard car is said to ride/drive a bit better, as is the usual when you compare against larger and lower-profile.. And the PASM on the S gets mixed reviews, whereas the the setup on the standard 997 gets raved as being "just right".
After those very (in my opinion) VALID accolades for the standard car, the rest of the comparison gets mired in "you don't really "need" that, and you won't really "use" that.
Such as the standard brakes are so good, why do you need better brakes?
The 3.6 is so zippy, why do you need the 3.8??
To me, that's a glass-half-full approach to buying a road rocket... If all you want is "what you need", then get a damn Miata. By all means, by that defeatist logic, just keep your Boxster..
But if you want the best bang your money can buy, look at the S from the standpoint of THE ENTIRE PACKAGE. When you look at all the equipment you get for $10K, more displacement, better brakes, bigger wheels/tires, bi-xenon, etc.etc..., even if you dislike the PASM, you may still find that the extra money is one hell of a decent deal for what you get.
There's a school of thought where "fast enough" is good enough, and another school of thought where "I can get all these upgrades for how much? Absolutely!!!"
Only you know how your noggin is programmed, and of course, there's the finances factor that may weigh in...
If you can comfortably afford an S, I'd say go for it. I know that I wouldn't change my car one iota to get my $10 grand back...
Apr 17, 2007 3:20:11 PM
- SimpleSkin
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
Go for the S, I too upgraded from a 2000 Boxster S to a 997S. The cost is worth it for the brakes engine and lights. I think the clutch is different too. There are many threads covering this dilema, many people have had the same choice to make. Good luck and I hope you enjoy your 997 whichever one you get.
Apr 17, 2007 3:39:39 PM
- easy_rider911
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
S for sure (if you can afford the extra Pounds). There's a fairly long list of items that are included on the S which are optional on the standard non S car. If you would choose those options anyway, then the S actually becomes a cheaper way to get those options.
e.g. Bixenons, 19 inch wheels/tyres, self-adjusting clutch, more powerful 'red' brakes, alu-look trim, aluminium dials, sports steering wheel, PASM/-20mm & LSD, helmholtz resonator etc etc. Check the 997 Product Information Guide (which can be downloaded elsewhere on this site for the full list). Plus the S has the possibility of the factory fitted/retro-fitted X51 powerkit.
But, honestly, if you'll hear my advice, please don't approach this decision from the approach of what do you get for how much money. No, it's more subtle yet obvious than that. The two cars are different because, at their heart, they have different engines. The non S has a M96 engine. The S has a M97 engine. They deliver their power and torque differently. The non S is more linear. The S is more thrilling IMHO. If you pick Sport Chrono (which I would, and did, pick), the S becomes more alive in its responses.
Sorry if I am droning on. IMO, S all the way.
e.g. Bixenons, 19 inch wheels/tyres, self-adjusting clutch, more powerful 'red' brakes, alu-look trim, aluminium dials, sports steering wheel, PASM/-20mm & LSD, helmholtz resonator etc etc. Check the 997 Product Information Guide (which can be downloaded elsewhere on this site for the full list). Plus the S has the possibility of the factory fitted/retro-fitted X51 powerkit.
But, honestly, if you'll hear my advice, please don't approach this decision from the approach of what do you get for how much money. No, it's more subtle yet obvious than that. The two cars are different because, at their heart, they have different engines. The non S has a M96 engine. The S has a M97 engine. They deliver their power and torque differently. The non S is more linear. The S is more thrilling IMHO. If you pick Sport Chrono (which I would, and did, pick), the S becomes more alive in its responses.
Sorry if I am droning on. IMO, S all the way.
Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
Quote:
bstew said:
Drive both and pick the one you like the best. If the cost is not an issue go for the S.
Exactly. The rule seems to be if you are positioned to blow the extra us$10K then by all means get the S.
The only time I'm _logically_ happy I got the S is when I have limited passing lane-age and the ahole speeds up (the extra HP is kicking in). Oh..., that and when it's really dark and the Litronics kick in. Oh..., possible future appreciation: when I have to slam on the brakes to save my life.
Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
One other thing. I have a 997 (Non S) Cab. To me I wanted the drop top more then I wanted the S. Now I was driving a Truck before I got my 997 so all of them was a major improvement for me. If the extra 10K won't set you back go for the S. There is no reason to spend this kind of money and later ask yourself what if..
Now for me I have yet to ask myself what if but that is just me.
Now for me I have yet to ask myself what if but that is just me.
Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
Went from 986 2.5 (non S) to 997S Cab. I was going to say I didn't even think twice, but I did.
After thinking twice I decided it was a good investment in ownership satisfaction for the $10k. You get 30HP and more torque; better and redder brakes, bigger wheels/tires, bi-xenon, PASM, etc. etc. And I'm not the least bit sorry.
My wife thinks I'm nuts, but then again, she picked out this tiny bit of compressed carbon for her finger which is bigger than the older and tinier bit of compressed carbon she used to wear and finds great satisfaction there, so we have a good working relationship on this issue.
Only you can decide ... it's not about calculating $330 / HP and saying it's a good deal.
After thinking twice I decided it was a good investment in ownership satisfaction for the $10k. You get 30HP and more torque; better and redder brakes, bigger wheels/tires, bi-xenon, PASM, etc. etc. And I'm not the least bit sorry.
My wife thinks I'm nuts, but then again, she picked out this tiny bit of compressed carbon for her finger which is bigger than the older and tinier bit of compressed carbon she used to wear and finds great satisfaction there, so we have a good working relationship on this issue.
Only you can decide ... it's not about calculating $330 / HP and saying it's a good deal.
Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
BTW, I have a 986S and my 997S. The Carrera isn't as much fun to drive. It's all business compared to the Boxster. You solve alot of problems by crushing the gas pedal insted of using more brain by rowing thru the gears. Definitely get the 997 if you want but don't sell your Boxster short.
OT: If I had to choose all over again? Maybe I'd get a Ruf Boxster for all the money I've spent so far on P-cars.
http://www.rufautocentre.com/conversions/Boxster.asp
OT: If I had to choose all over again? Maybe I'd get a Ruf Boxster for all the money I've spent so far on P-cars.
http://www.rufautocentre.com/conversions/Boxster.asp
Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
definitely get the "S" if you have the extra 10k to blow. or else, the C2 will do you good enough. However, my complaint for the p-cars is that most equipments that should had came standard are not standard on a 100k+ car... for instances: self dimming mirrors, heated seats, electric seats and so on are not standards.
what is porsche thinking?? ><
what is porsche thinking?? ><
Apr 18, 2007 1:06:39 AM
- stubenhocker
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
I wanted a C4 std interior, the wife wanted Natl Brown, so I said if were going to load it up then we must do the S.
I could be perfectly happy with a C2 or C4 if lightly specced, start adding some of the juicier options and I think it only makes sense to go with the S.
Good luck in your evaluation and decision making!
I could be perfectly happy with a C2 or C4 if lightly specced, start adding some of the juicier options and I think it only makes sense to go with the S.
Good luck in your evaluation and decision making!
Apr 18, 2007 1:16:45 AM
- JMShrink
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
For me it really comes down to PASM. If the S had the base suspension(or sport suspension) as an option in place of PASM, I would've gotten that. The PASM in normal mode seems to soft to me and not like a sportscar, however, the sport mode with PASM is not really practical. At least my non-S feels like a sportscar to me(I do have 19s BTW). I'd bet most S drivers keep it in normal mode anyways. You should drive both and see which you like. If you're considering both, sounds like you can afford the S. Let us know what happens. Please just don't ask if you should get Bose or not!
Apr 18, 2007 8:46:32 AM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
Quote:
JMShrink said:
For me it really comes down to PASM. If the S had the base suspension(or sport suspension) as an option in place of PASM, I would've gotten that.
I think newboxster could get the -20mm suspension in the UK, if he likes that better than the PASM
Apr 18, 2007 10:51:36 AM
- FLORENT KAVADAS
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
I do agree with all of the members of the board. If you think purely money the difference between the S and the non S is that for an S you get a lot of different things. Would you buy a 911 without xenon lights ? Add this here and there and then ....the bill adds up..
I think that it makes more sence to go for the S. The way the S performs also is much more agressive.
Best of luck S all the way !
I think that it makes more sence to go for the S. The way the S performs also is much more agressive.
Best of luck S all the way !
Apr 18, 2007 1:52:54 PM
- function_analysi
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
Quote:
MMD said:Quote:
FLORENT KAVADAS said:
I do agree with all of the members of the board. If you think purely money the difference between the S and the non S is that for an S you get a lot of different things. Would you buy a 911 without xenon lights ? Add this here and there and then ....the bill adds up..
I think that it makes more sence to go for the S. The way the S performs also is much more agressive.
Best of luck S all the way !
It's like Porsche likes to torture it's new buyers.I mean if you can have a car with 25 more FREE HP who wouldn't take that?
The _neurotic_ guys who buy the non-S will then always have to argue feebly and never-convincingly that the 25 hp isn't a big deal.
The non-interpsychically-conflicted guys with the non-S will enjoy the car without reservation.
It's almost sadistic what Porsche does to some of us.
Then there's the Public. Or the other Mfgr car owners looking for red calipers and "S" suffix on the rear deck... .
Geez, I'm sure glad I got all my psychoanalysis done and out of the way many years ago.
You can make the same case for the 997S w/X51 and the 997TT and so on and so on. It never ends....
Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
Quote:
bstew said:
You can make the same case for the 997S w/X51 and the 997TT and so on and so on. It never ends....
LOL! Yes! Good point. That's why I deleted my post. I wanted to end it.
But seriously, the 912 as an alternative to the 911 back in the 60s was offered as a less-expensive alternative. It was a big difference because the engine was souped up VW 4-banger and not a Porsche unit.
Today there's just this teeeeny differences which I kinda doubt are there for economic an cost reasons. I think there are there for "money extraction" reasons delevoped by the Porsche marketing types. You know, a direct play on "keep up with the Jones' " mentality.
Apr 18, 2007 4:25:10 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
The ducting and scooping and all-wheel-driving of the Turbo of late has made it alot easier for me to not get jealous, and just be happy with what I've got... That sounds like sour grapes, but it's not... I really am happy with my car, and everything further-up the food chain at Porsche is styled such that I can't fall in love, which is good for my bank account.. 
Apr 18, 2007 5:27:30 PM
- MMD
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
Quote:
69bossnine said:
The ducting and scooping and all-wheel-driving of the Turbo of late has made it alot easier for me to not get jealous, and just be happy with what I've got... That sounds like sour grapes, but it's not... I really am happy with my car, and everything further-up the food chain at Porsche is styled such that I can't fall in love, which is good for my bank account..
It's understandable for you since you've got alot of HP to mess with in your other cars.
I'm stuck trying to get it all in one or two cars.
A freekin' turbo is in my future and I've solved the slatty/venty/wingy problem with dark grey color.
Definitely see what you mean though. After the Turbo, I think I'm done with Porsches since they seem to be aiming at getting more and more semi-poser looking.
Get a dark TT maybe even with wheels painted to body color:
Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
I bought a heavily optioned C2 rather than a C2S. By choice. At the time (2005) there were things I did not like about the S. I'm not a fan of red brakes. I didn't like the S wheels or the sport steering wheel. And I thought the twin exhaust pipes looked cheesy. I'm over all that now.
If I had it to do over again, I would buy a lightly optioned S rather than a heavily optioned non-S. As previous posts mention, you get a lot of stuff for the ten grand (US). And I assume resale is probably better for an S than non. I think the S would be an easier car to sell, regardless of price.
So if you are torn between the two, I strongly suggest you STEP UP to the S. I don't think you'll be sorry.
If I had it to do over again, I would buy a lightly optioned S rather than a heavily optioned non-S. As previous posts mention, you get a lot of stuff for the ten grand (US). And I assume resale is probably better for an S than non. I think the S would be an easier car to sell, regardless of price.
So if you are torn between the two, I strongly suggest you STEP UP to the S. I don't think you'll be sorry.
Apr 19, 2007 2:37:18 PM
- Scotty A
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
I'd say the S. Just not sure if the jump from a boxster S to a 997 non S is worth it.
I had a 997S launch car and loved it. In fact it was the only car that I regretted selling. When I got the S, I had previously driven the non S. I liked it less and could afford the S, so it was an easy decision.
I had a 997S launch car and loved it. In fact it was the only car that I regretted selling. When I got the S, I had previously driven the non S. I liked it less and could afford the S, so it was an easy decision.
Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
but yes, from a boxster S to a 997, you'll barely feel the differences. step up to the "S" if attention is not bothering you. In Canada, i'll rather buy the base because every 997 i see on the street is the base. so i won't have that "hey! he got the "S"!" feeling. Plus, a 911 is a 911. you just won't go wrong with either model.
Apr 23, 2007 3:22:49 AM
- Hollli82
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Re: Boxster S to 997 C2
Quote:
69bossnine said:
The ducting and scooping and all-wheel-driving of the Turbo of late has made it alot easier for me to not get jealous, and just be happy with what I've got... That sounds like sour grapes, but it's not... I really am happy with my car, and everything further-up the food chain at Porsche is styled such that I can't fall in love, which is good for my bank account..
+1
I'm sure the turbo is a great car. I'm having a hard time with all of the body work.
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