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Apr 11, 2007 8:23:19 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: Washing Mit
I hate washing mits. They are too "bulky" in that they put too much material/cushion between your fingers and the car, so you lose all of the dexterity you need for tight places and contours, and all the FEEL you need to detect problems or contaminants. The biggest tools you use when cleaning/detailing your car are your sense of sight and your sense of feel.
A good soft terry-cloth cotton towel, hand-towel-size, is the way to go. You get your fingers working and feeling behind the towel, and you can feel everything, and if a small grain of sand or dirt gets into the towel, you can immediately SENSE it and stop and rinse before you wind up dragging it across your entire car in the course of washing. The term "towel scratching" is not caused by using a towel for washing. The emollient soap doesn't allow the towel to scratch, it's DRYING the car where you've got to be more gentle.
Washing and detailing a car is not unlike sculpting or doing fine cabinetry or wood-work. There's ALOT of information communicating through your fingertips, and you need to conduit as much feeling as you can to avoid causing clumsy scratch damage, like when working on grease/tar splatters or bug schmoo... Also, getting into tight areas safely and thoroughly requires the use of your fingers. Washing a car with a mit is like trying to have sex with a cowboy boot on your johnson..
Brushes are worthless when the car is pretty dirty, as they won't help you remove any stubborn dirt or bug goo, so you wind up going back over frontal areas with something else anyhow..
This same logic applies to polishing/waxing. Sometimes, if the paint's really scratched-up or faded, you HAVE to do machine-work. But the final coat of wax should always be applied by hand, so you can be delicate and get every contour and corner, and feel through your fingers if any in-need areas remain or unseen goop is still on the surface.
A good soft terry-cloth cotton towel, hand-towel-size, is the way to go. You get your fingers working and feeling behind the towel, and you can feel everything, and if a small grain of sand or dirt gets into the towel, you can immediately SENSE it and stop and rinse before you wind up dragging it across your entire car in the course of washing. The term "towel scratching" is not caused by using a towel for washing. The emollient soap doesn't allow the towel to scratch, it's DRYING the car where you've got to be more gentle.
Washing and detailing a car is not unlike sculpting or doing fine cabinetry or wood-work. There's ALOT of information communicating through your fingertips, and you need to conduit as much feeling as you can to avoid causing clumsy scratch damage, like when working on grease/tar splatters or bug schmoo... Also, getting into tight areas safely and thoroughly requires the use of your fingers. Washing a car with a mit is like trying to have sex with a cowboy boot on your johnson..
Brushes are worthless when the car is pretty dirty, as they won't help you remove any stubborn dirt or bug goo, so you wind up going back over frontal areas with something else anyhow..
This same logic applies to polishing/waxing. Sometimes, if the paint's really scratched-up or faded, you HAVE to do machine-work. But the final coat of wax should always be applied by hand, so you can be delicate and get every contour and corner, and feel through your fingers if any in-need areas remain or unseen goop is still on the surface.
Apr 11, 2007 8:24:21 PM
- function_analysi
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Re: Washing Mit
Try this link and go to the lambs wool wash mit.
http://www.swissvax.co.uk/products/wash-products.asp
It works miracles, PM if you need more info
http://www.swissvax.co.uk/products/wash-products.asp
It works miracles, PM if you need more info
Apr 11, 2007 8:32:43 PM
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ResB
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Re: Washing Mit
THe Swissvax one for me just disintegrated on me. Dunno if it was just a fault one that particular one but it kind of supprised me as they produce good products.
Having said that Meguiars make one and it's lasted ages for me. http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/Store/Product/Meguiars.aspx?ProductId=308
Good product.
Having said that Meguiars make one and it's lasted ages for me. http://www.theultimatefinish.co.uk/Store/Product/Meguiars.aspx?ProductId=308
Good product.
Apr 11, 2007 8:36:48 PM
- function_analysi
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Apr 11, 2007 9:25:03 PM
- MMD
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Re: Washing Mit
Go ahead and cringe BUT I use one of these. The brush part is VERY soft (make sure the brush is soft!) the hose attaches and there's a valve to regulate water volume. Use aloft of water when cleaning the lower parts of car, less water when doing upper parts.
Constant water flow eliminates scratchy grit. Use a mitt in areas too confined for brush.
Constant water flow eliminates scratchy grit. Use a mitt in areas too confined for brush.
Apr 11, 2007 10:15:16 PM
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ResB
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Apr 12, 2007 12:54:27 AM
- MMD
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Re: Washing Mit
Quote:
function_analysi said:
I'm almost breaking into shivers
Are you sure you preserve with this your P-Car resale value?
Yeah. Why? because the brush I have (not this specific model) is verrry soft (a quality product) and the huge amount of water flushing away everything seems better than using the same mitt which is in the process of collecting dirt until you eventually rinse it.
Re: Washing Mit
I use a microfibre wash mitt. Probably the best I've ever used. I've tried them all, lamb wool, brush types with boars hair, etc. And I cringe at the thought of using a terry cloth. That's just asking for trouble, IMHO. I do however use a terry towel to cover the engine bay so that the water doesn't drip through the vent onto the engine. Just be sure to remember to remove the towel afterwards or you'd have a really smokey car! 
Re: Washing Mit
Quote:
bstew said:
Does anyone have a good washing mit that they use for their car? I have tried a few but they seem to wear out pretty quick. The last two I had now have holes in them where my fingers go. I guess I was washing the car too hard
Call Larry Reynolds at Car Care Specialties in New Jersey. I trust him with all my car detailing supplies. He knows what he's talking about. 877.796.8300. The mitt he recommends is Detailer's Choice Cotton Chenille was mitt for about six bucks. It's the one I use on my Porsche.
Apr 12, 2007 1:02:06 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: Washing Mit
You guys "cringing" over terry-cloth are victims of perception.... I've got enough Amelia and AACA National & Grand National awards to prove out my techniques...
Like so much else in automotive detailing, everybody's spending dough on silly products, like virgin Yak's ass wash mits, when it's the hand applying them that's the critical variable.
Answering a previous question, yes, I always polish/wax by hand. The only time you need a machine is when you're dealing with paint that's so bad that you'd be rubbing for days trying to save it by hand... My Porsche never gets close to the point where a machine-buff would be necessary.
So often these detailing threads devolve into folks posting pictures of their paint jobs, which proves nothing really, as you could make a junkyard dog look shiny with a camera and some desk-top adjusting. To prove my credentials, maybe I'll take some shots of the awards I have here at the office (the lion's share are at home..)
Like so much else in automotive detailing, everybody's spending dough on silly products, like virgin Yak's ass wash mits, when it's the hand applying them that's the critical variable.
Answering a previous question, yes, I always polish/wax by hand. The only time you need a machine is when you're dealing with paint that's so bad that you'd be rubbing for days trying to save it by hand... My Porsche never gets close to the point where a machine-buff would be necessary.
So often these detailing threads devolve into folks posting pictures of their paint jobs, which proves nothing really, as you could make a junkyard dog look shiny with a camera and some desk-top adjusting. To prove my credentials, maybe I'll take some shots of the awards I have here at the office (the lion's share are at home..)
Apr 12, 2007 1:04:10 PM
- 69bossnine
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Apr 12, 2007 1:05:36 PM
- 69bossnine
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Apr 12, 2007 1:08:34 PM
- 69bossnine
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Apr 12, 2007 1:22:59 PM
- function_analysi
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Apr 12, 2007 1:24:51 PM
- function_analysi
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Apr 12, 2007 1:26:32 PM
- function_analysi
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Apr 12, 2007 1:26:40 PM
- GA997S
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Re: Washing Mit
Quote:
69bossnine said:
The term "towel scratching" is not caused by using a towel for washing. The emollient soap doesn't allow the towel to scratch, it's DRYING the car where you've got to be more gentle.
My guess is that your show cars don't get the larger grit stuck on the paint like when driving in the rain. Would you pre-wash using a brush before the towel in this case? I know I'd scratch the hell out of mine if I used anything else besides my brush first. And if you do a good job of washing, what scratches when you dry the car. I watched the guy at my dealer wipe my front fender (with a clean towel) just after a detail/wax to remove a tiny smudge and he left what looked like a bad scratch. I'm so afraid of swirl marks on my black that I'll sometimes just drive around to dry it.
Apr 12, 2007 2:02:34 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: Washing Mit
The show cars don't get terribly dirty, you're right, but my drivers do, and my standards are the same for either, I wouldn't foul up the finish on my truck any more than I would that freshly restored T-bird.
Water and suds, water and suds... The type of dirt that covers a car from rain-spray and general road grime does not require ANY heavy pressure to remove, so any scratches that result from washing a dirty car would be from totally-unnecessary "rubbing". I do notice that alot, people washing their car with all this pressure and scrubbing going on, going over one area multiple times, like they're trying to scrub a pet-poo stain out of a carpet, as if that's what it takes to get the car clean, not realizing that all the dirt lifted away into the soap on the very first pass. They're the cause of their own damage, not the mit, or the brush, or the towel.
Regarding your dealer, you're trying to draw a conclusion upon an isolated incident rife with potential causes/variables.
He could have had a piece of grit in the towel, or the towel could have had sand/dirt in it from the ground, or from wind blowing it into it, or the towel could have been some stiff and crusty to the touch (not soft) Sam's Club shop towel, and on and on... All towels are not created equal, and I've become quite a connoisseur in my lifetime!! I keep "the good stuff" in one cabinet, and the "crap" in another for dirty unimportant jobs. I've found that the towels sold by detail boutiques like Griots really suck... They're soft, but they don't absorb, and they pull-threads like a home-knit sweater. I'll never waste that money again.
And contaminants that scratch paint can blow into or be picked up by ANYTHING you use, wash mit, towel, micro-fiber, chamois, you name it... Your best hedge against grit is for there to be a degree of "nap" in the rag/mit/yak-ass you're using.. Since dirt and grit is fairly small, you don't need 3-5 inches of brush nap to allow it to escape from the working area of the medium, the nap of a good quality soft towel is more than adequate to carry off a few panels of dirty car, then rinse and continue, as you would normally wash a car.
Quite honestly, it's the micro-fiber towels that have very minimal nap, and therefore have less escape-area for dirt that's introduced. The WORST is the chamois... You get a single piece of tiny grit unknowingly into a chamois, and you can trash your paint job. There's nowhere for the grit to lift into, it stays right between the leather and the car, scratching full-force.
Micro-fiber towels and chamois are fantastic when used in a perfectly dirt/grit free environment, like classic cars for instance, where dust is usually the primary filth.
But I stay away from those when washing and drying a really dirty road car, as you're going to have areas (like wheel openings and exhaust cutouts and lower rocker panels) where un-washed-away dirt may get accidently or unknowingly wiped over while drying, contaminating whatever you're using. In those cases, the deeper the nap, the more room the dirt has to get away from the surface, and the less overall pressure pushing the grit against the paint..
Water and suds, water and suds... The type of dirt that covers a car from rain-spray and general road grime does not require ANY heavy pressure to remove, so any scratches that result from washing a dirty car would be from totally-unnecessary "rubbing". I do notice that alot, people washing their car with all this pressure and scrubbing going on, going over one area multiple times, like they're trying to scrub a pet-poo stain out of a carpet, as if that's what it takes to get the car clean, not realizing that all the dirt lifted away into the soap on the very first pass. They're the cause of their own damage, not the mit, or the brush, or the towel.
Regarding your dealer, you're trying to draw a conclusion upon an isolated incident rife with potential causes/variables.
He could have had a piece of grit in the towel, or the towel could have had sand/dirt in it from the ground, or from wind blowing it into it, or the towel could have been some stiff and crusty to the touch (not soft) Sam's Club shop towel, and on and on... All towels are not created equal, and I've become quite a connoisseur in my lifetime!! I keep "the good stuff" in one cabinet, and the "crap" in another for dirty unimportant jobs. I've found that the towels sold by detail boutiques like Griots really suck... They're soft, but they don't absorb, and they pull-threads like a home-knit sweater. I'll never waste that money again.
And contaminants that scratch paint can blow into or be picked up by ANYTHING you use, wash mit, towel, micro-fiber, chamois, you name it... Your best hedge against grit is for there to be a degree of "nap" in the rag/mit/yak-ass you're using.. Since dirt and grit is fairly small, you don't need 3-5 inches of brush nap to allow it to escape from the working area of the medium, the nap of a good quality soft towel is more than adequate to carry off a few panels of dirty car, then rinse and continue, as you would normally wash a car.
Quite honestly, it's the micro-fiber towels that have very minimal nap, and therefore have less escape-area for dirt that's introduced. The WORST is the chamois... You get a single piece of tiny grit unknowingly into a chamois, and you can trash your paint job. There's nowhere for the grit to lift into, it stays right between the leather and the car, scratching full-force.
Micro-fiber towels and chamois are fantastic when used in a perfectly dirt/grit free environment, like classic cars for instance, where dust is usually the primary filth.
But I stay away from those when washing and drying a really dirty road car, as you're going to have areas (like wheel openings and exhaust cutouts and lower rocker panels) where un-washed-away dirt may get accidently or unknowingly wiped over while drying, contaminating whatever you're using. In those cases, the deeper the nap, the more room the dirt has to get away from the surface, and the less overall pressure pushing the grit against the paint..
Apr 12, 2007 2:07:13 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: Washing Mit
Quote:
function_analysi said:
OBTW, what do you think about this?
I think you could get the same result, just as fast and easy, with a soapy wash rag and a hose, using a good safe car-wash soap. There's nothing on your wheels that requires "wheel cleaner" to remove, and wheel cleaner is damn aggressive stuff. The occassional road-tar you get on the inside of the wheels is best dealt with separately with a good tar remover. And what's the glove for?? Afraid to get a little dirt under your nails?
I can't overstate the value of using your hands, glove-less, to feel what you're doing.
Apr 12, 2007 2:17:12 PM
- 69bossnine
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Re: Washing Mit
You know the saying "killing them with kindness"?
It applies so much to car detailing sometimes. We just were discussing how much stuff people buy to care for interiors, when it's often not necessary and in many cases is damaging/counterproductive over the long-term.
Don't kill your car with products that aren't needed to get a particular result.
The detail products industry won't tell you that, because it's their bread and butter in selling you 50 different bottles of miracle schmutz, and 50 different toys to apply it with...
Here's a cleaner for your glass, here's one for your paint, here's one for your exhaust tips, here's one for your wheels, here's one for your really dirty bits, here's one to pre-spray all that stuff with before you use the other stuff, here's one that if you stare at the car long enough you'll swear it makes some type of difference, and here's one for cleaning dragonfly juice, and another for moths, and another for butterflies, and one for small rodents, and one for grease, and another for tar, and another if you've got grease AND tar, and another if you've got a black car with grease and tar, and....
We're just like our wives at the cosmetics counter buying dozens of different wrinkle creams LOL!!!
It applies so much to car detailing sometimes. We just were discussing how much stuff people buy to care for interiors, when it's often not necessary and in many cases is damaging/counterproductive over the long-term.
Don't kill your car with products that aren't needed to get a particular result.
The detail products industry won't tell you that, because it's their bread and butter in selling you 50 different bottles of miracle schmutz, and 50 different toys to apply it with...
Here's a cleaner for your glass, here's one for your paint, here's one for your exhaust tips, here's one for your wheels, here's one for your really dirty bits, here's one to pre-spray all that stuff with before you use the other stuff, here's one that if you stare at the car long enough you'll swear it makes some type of difference, and here's one for cleaning dragonfly juice, and another for moths, and another for butterflies, and one for small rodents, and one for grease, and another for tar, and another if you've got grease AND tar, and another if you've got a black car with grease and tar, and....
We're just like our wives at the cosmetics counter buying dozens of different wrinkle creams LOL!!!
Apr 12, 2007 2:45:40 PM
- function_analysi
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Re: Washing Mit
Thanks for the gratis assessment. Just two words for the wheel cleaner you've seen "Brake Dust". The cleaning concentrate is mixed with water in a ration of 1:3 (normally soiled wheels). As for the glove, no it's not about the dirty under my nails, that believe me, has been around since I was 12 years old repairing my bicycle. It's against that damn aggressive wheel cleaner and for better using my fingures in between the brake caliper and the inside part of the rim.
Ahhh, not to forget the specially designed wheel wax applied after the work has completely done down there (LOL)
Ahhh, not to forget the specially designed wheel wax applied after the work has completely done down there (LOL)
Apr 12, 2007 2:53:18 PM
- MMD
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Re: Washing Mit
Quote:
69bossnine said:
I always polish/wax by hand. The only time you need a machine is when you're dealing with paint that's so bad that you'd be rubbing for days trying to save it by hand... My Porsche never gets close to the point where a machine-buff would be necessary.
Correct me if I'm wrong but here goes:
Some guys with the machines grinding away claim that the clear coat didn't come from the factory with enough shine.
They use a machine to "level " the clear coat and increase shine.
I personally think this is just wearing down the clear coat.
Would be a time bomb when the next owner leaves the once-pampered car out in the elements routinely and then someday tries to _justifiably_ use a machine to shine it up: clear coat would wear thru.
So machine polishing a new car's finish "leveling the cleartcoat" is probably ruining the car's paint for the long term. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Save machine polishing for when the car really needs it.
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