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    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    Mike (La Jolla) said:
    RC -- Thanks for your review. You will be amused to hear that I have gotten smacked down harshly for parroting your comments in one of the 'other' forums.



    Does that forum involve lots of Techart bodykit parts and polished 20" bling wheels?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Mike (La Jolla) said:
    RC -- Thanks for your review. You will be amused to hear that I have gotten smacked down harshly for parroting your comments in one of the 'other' forums.



    Does that forum involve lots of Techart bodykit parts and polished 20" bling wheels?



    No that is 6speedonline. I got hammered on rennlist. They aren't very mature over there and few of them own a Porsche let alone track one.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    Mike (La Jolla) said:
    RC -- Thanks for your review. You will be amused to hear that I have gotten smacked down harshly for parroting your comments in one of the 'other' forums.



    Well...I'm not surprised. Sorry it happened though.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Mike, to be fair to rennlist, it's a great forum, like this one. I carefully read your post over there, nobody bashed you in the least. Good review RC.
    CH

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    Mike (La Jolla) said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Mike (La Jolla) said:
    RC -- Thanks for your review. You will be amused to hear that I have gotten smacked down harshly for parroting your comments in one of the 'other' forums.



    Does that forum involve lots of Techart bodykit parts and polished 20" bling wheels?



    No that is 6speedonline. I got hammered on rennlist. They aren't very mature over there and few of them own a Porsche let alone track one.


    I'm sorry, but that's not a fair assessment of Rennlist.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Rennlist and Rennteam both rock !
    Also 6speedonline is great!
    Hey , it is about Porsche and Porsche people , why shouldn't it be great. I read all three but hardly post anything on the other boards. But I like them all !
    Rennlist is also super for the owners of older models.
    Nothing beats rennlist for a 911/964/993 owner I believe.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    I read your review with interest and as always these things are personal. I am lucky enough to have a basalt black 997 turbo manual, a Lamborghini Gallardo (manual) and a ferrari 430 F1 as well as an uprated E60 M5. With regard to your point about the 997 now not having a performace advantage I would not agree. My experience driving all the cars regularly is that the turbo is the quickest by some margin in the real world particualarly in any weather other than bone dry. Even in the dry however it has the beating of the ferrari and the lamborghini. I love the turbo but would say that both the Lambo and Ferrai are better handling cars on the road (cant comment on the track as dont track my cars) and the ferrari in particular is much sharper. Despite in my view definitely being slower the Lambo has a real feeling of power and is a beautifully balanced car , when the turbo is scrabbling to sort out a driver mistake (and it does it magnificently) you are barely aware of it in the Lambo. Of the three the ferrari rewards for pure passion and both the ferrai and Lambo sound terrific. My only real fault with the turbo is the sound which is a material part of the enjoyment for any car enthusiast and I am getting a new tubi sports exhaust fitted to the turbo next week hopefully to rectify that. All in all however the most amazing of my cars is still the M5 mine is uprated to 550Bhp and for Pounds60k for daily transport is more of an achievement than my other cars despite the fact it is obviously the last to be taken on a road trip.
    Very helpful forum thanks.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    RC said
    The only car I'm really surprised with is the Corvette Z06. It may have a lousy reputation and over here in Germany, you actually have to hide from driving such a car. On the other hand, performance is great and a true bargain for that price. For those who can't afford a 997 Turbo or don't want to spend so much money for a sports car, the Z06 is a very good choice, like it or not. Of course only for your personal driving pleasure at NIGHT. (just kidding...)



    RC,

    i'm waiting for my 997 TT tip to arrive off the truck, so i will suspend comment there for 10 days... but having put 5k miles on my Z06 before selling i must say: have you driven one thru bumpy high speed corners? the primitive suspension is quite scary for a mediocre driver like myself. the jumpy derangment the z06 suffers in corner bumps is downright dangerous... but maybe the discount covers that

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    watt said:
    Quote:
    RC said
    The only car I'm really surprised with is the Corvette Z06. It may have a lousy reputation and over here in Germany, you actually have to hide from driving such a car. On the other hand, performance is great and a true bargain for that price. For those who can't afford a 997 Turbo or don't want to spend so much money for a sports car, the Z06 is a very good choice, like it or not. Of course only for your personal driving pleasure at NIGHT. (just kidding...)



    RC,

    i'm waiting for my 997 TT tip to arrive off the truck, so i will suspend comment there for 10 days... but having put 5k miles on my Z06 before selling i must say: have you driven one thru bumpy high speed corners? the primitive suspension is quite scary for a mediocre driver like myself. the jumpy derangment the z06 suffers in corner bumps is downright dangerous... but maybe the discount covers that



    I almost got torn apart for saying that . The Corvette is a great car, but it was meant for the track.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    watt said:
    Quote:
    RC said
    The only car I'm really surprised with is the Corvette Z06. It may have a lousy reputation and over here in Germany, you actually have to hide from driving such a car. On the other hand, performance is great and a true bargain for that price. For those who can't afford a 997 Turbo or don't want to spend so much money for a sports car, the Z06 is a very good choice, like it or not. Of course only for your personal driving pleasure at NIGHT. (just kidding...)



    RC,

    i'm waiting for my 997 TT tip to arrive off the truck, so i will suspend comment there for 10 days... but having put 5k miles on my Z06 before selling i must say: have you driven one thru bumpy high speed corners? the primitive suspension is quite scary for a mediocre driver like myself. the jumpy derangment the z06 suffers in corner bumps is downright dangerous... but maybe the discount covers that



    I almost got torn apart for saying that . The Corvette is a great car, but it was meant for the track.



    It is a known issue regarding the characteristics of the Z06 and street driving.

    The write up by RC is exactly what I needed to read I have been looking for a car that compliments the driver. I notice the 997 Turbo's ability to drift; no other AWD car I have owned would allow that, at least for long. Do the front wheels at least kick in to prevent wheel spin when launching the car? How bad is the lag when moving from a stand-still?

    This is my first look into buying a Porsche, I usually run Audi, BMW, Mercedes, and have had my fair share of American muscle cars (Corvette included).

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    If you can afford it, go for it! Every time I drive a P car, I get this huge grin on my face . The 911 truly is a wonderful machine.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    If you can afford it, go for it! Every time I drive a P car, I get this huge grin on my face . The 911 truly is a wonderful machine.



    Agreed!

    Also, GForceSS,

    The 911 Turbo has the added advantage (over 911 NA variants) of being readily modded, including now even the 997TT, albeit more cautiously given the 997TT's new VTG's. But a 997TT next year and with break-in would mean 997TT's with tuning packages have been on the road as "guinea pigs" for more than a year by the time you are ready to mod yours.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Crash and Turbo Al,

    Thanks for the support and advice. Still curious as to the AWD setup of the 997 T, please see the posting part regarding some confusion on how the AWD works in this car; from what I have seen it doesn't seem AWD at all.

    (From previous quote) "I notice the 997 Turbo's ability to drift; no other AWD car I have owned would allow that, at least for long. Do the front wheels at least kick in to prevent wheel spin when launching the car? How bad is the lag when moving from a stand-still?"

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    i'm surprised how you didn't like the exhaust that much.. to me, it's the same as the one on the carrera. but then it's the person's point of view. i actually do find them looking pretty sweet. but that's just me.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    In the Automobilismo and Auto test, 997 Turbo was much faster than the Quattroruote test! In both occasions the 0-100 was burnt in less than 3"8, and 0-200 was faster than Ferrari F430 and Lamborghini Gallardo SE. Don't trust about Quattroruote, it's a Ferrari and Fiat brands brochures! Quattroruote is not a serious car rewiew!
    F430 and Gallardo, when compared on the track, were equipped with semi-slick tyres, while Porsche 997 turbo with the standard, less performing tyres!
    On the Nurburgring, 997 turbo set its fastest lap in 7"40 (with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres, optional). Ferrari's F430 best lap was 7"55 with standard PZero tyres. 997 turbo, with standard tyres, set 7"49, on the same track.
    Only Quattroruote registered bad performances for 997 turbo, but all the others rewiews registered better results in all the tests!
    997 Turbo is the better choice, be sure. You can be faster like (or more...) than Ferrari and Lamborghini, and have much more comfort the the rivals!
    Porsche rules!

    I.E., the 599 Fiorano in Quattroruote test was faster than Carrera GT but... the Fiorano was tested on a fastest track variant of the circuit. Sorry, but Quattrouote didn't write this in the article! Do you understand how liar Quattroruote can be?!

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    Dario911 said:
    In the Automobilismo and Auto test, 997 Turbo was much faster than the Quattroruote test! In both occasions the 0-100 was burnt in less than 3"8, and 0-200 was faster than Ferrari F430 and Lamborghini Gallardo SE. Don't trust about Quattroruote, it's a Ferrari and Fiat brands brochures! Quattroruote is not a serious car rewiew!
    F430 and Gallardo, when compared on the track, were equipped with semi-slick tyres, while Porsche 997 turbo with the standard, less performing tyres!
    On the Nurburgring, 997 turbo set its fastest lap in 7"40 (with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres, optional). Ferrari's F430 best lap was 7"55 with standard PZero tyres. 997 turbo, with standard tyres, set 7"49, on the same track.
    Only Quattroruote registered bad performances for 997 turbo, but all the others rewiews registered better results in all the tests!
    997 Turbo is the better choice, be sure. You can be faster like (or more...) than Ferrari and Lamborghini, and have much more comfort the the rivals!
    Porsche rules!

    I.E., the 599 Fiorano in Quattroruote test was faster than Carrera GT but... the Fiorano was tested on a fastest track variant of the circuit. Sorry, but Quattrouote didn't write this in the article! Do you understand how liar Quattroruote can be?!



    Very well said...you have also the right name!

    hahah

    Ciao
    Dario

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    bravo Dario!!!

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    You cant compare a Race, sport car, (Produced end of 2004)with an Everyday "driven by all the family" car which produced in 2006...

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    A brief assessment of the 997tt's accomplishments:

    1. Nearly equal performance of the 996GT2MkII - 0-200kmh in about 12 seconds or about 2 seconds faster than the 996tt.
    2. Comparable Ring times to the old 996tt, Gallardo and F430.
    3. At least in North America, it costs nearly half of the F430 (incl. premiums) and about 40-50% less than the Gallardo Se.
    4. More comfortable & reliable than either of the above.

    Given the 20+km length of the Ring, how many seconds would be a reasonable variance from one example of a 997tt to another. Specific atmospheric conditions, tires, driver error, track conditions (repaving, traffic etc.) and build variance. Wouldn't it be interesting to see a 996tt and 997tt go at it together to see which is really faster? Now that would be the ideal test.

    I have yet to hear from any actual 997tt owners who feel disappointed. I certainly don't.

    Don't let a few published results jade your judgement - go drive one (or anything else you like) and make your own decision.

    By the way, the only published time I could find for the 996GT2 was 7'46". Not much better, given it reduced weight, lower ride height, stiffer suspension, 2 wheel drive, etc.

    If a few seconds make that much difference to your buying decision, versus all other qualities a car may offer, by all means, go buy something else and be happy.


    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    The 997 Turbo is still the best all-weather every day sports car for drivers of all abilities. For these reasons it will continue to sell well.

    The criticisms of the car are from enthusiast drivers who, in addition to the above, want better performance (Ring times) than the competition and the old 996 Turbo. Unfortunately the 997 TT does not deliver this crucial (for enthusiasts) increase in performance. In addition the car is difficult to drive safely when approaching the limit.

    Overall verdict: Very good car, but the new AWD and PASM technology still needs refinement so that the 997 TT both drives faster and feels safer at the limit.

    When do we expect the Turbo S, and will it solve these problems and put the Turbo back where it used to be - out in front?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    The 997 Turbo is still the best all-weather every day sports car for drivers of all abilities. For these reasons it will continue to sell well.

    The criticisms of the car are from enthusiast drivers who, in addition to the above, want better performance (Ring times) than the competition and the old 996 Turbo. Unfortunately the 997 TT does not deliver this crucial (for enthusiasts) increase in performance. In addition the car is difficult to drive safely when approaching the limit.

    Overall verdict: Very good car, but the new AWD and PASM technology still needs refinement so that the 997 TT both drives faster and feels safer at the limit.

    When do we expect the Turbo S, and will it solve these problems and put the Turbo back where it used to be - out in front?



    I would rather argue that we will have to live with the shortcomings you mention in your post until (at least) the 998TT. If we are lucky the 998TT will be a solid and efficient sports car again. If we are unlucky Porsche has dropped out of the competition for the top-of-the-league sports car forever.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    AUM,

    I don't believe the 997 X50 option (when available) will change the cars dynamics at the limits. It will add maybe 30-40 hp and a sweeter exhaust note for approx. $18K (US $$$). Dynamics "at the limits" will only be resolved by less weight, different vehicle drivetrain, suspension, etc. (ie. GET A GT2 OR GT3). There is a reason that "underpowered" CUP cars are faster on a track than a TT - weight, rwd, sequential tranny, etc. High HP can only go so far. So called "enthusiasts" (ie. weekend track warriors) probably shouldn't get a TT (ie. GET A GT2 OR GT3). For the same $18K I'll skip waiting for the X50 option, get the TT now (5/9 production date) and get the EVO stage 4 package. FWIW I think a 3600 lb. car will NEVER hustle around a track like a 3000lb. car w/o spending CRAZY $$$ (all else being equal). I think Porsche hit its target with the 997 TT. The "enthusiasts" gotta pony up for a GT series vehicle and stop whining about the shortcomings of the TT; or better yet, keep the TT for a daily driver and get a GT series vehicle for weekend tracking. Just my 2 cents.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    AUM said:
    The 997 Turbo is still the best all-weather every day sports car for drivers of all abilities. For these reasons it will continue to sell well.



    Well, I'd actually say that the 996 Turbo is this kind of car, not the 997 Turbo. The 997 Turbo is trickier in almost any driving situation but you can always be a tick faster than in the 996 Turbo if you know what you're doing. Overall, there isn't much difference between both in the hands of a pro driver but unexperienced drivers definetely get more "help" in the 996 Turbo, not the 997 Turbo.

    Take a 997 Turbo and drive it on a rainy day with sport chrono turned on and maybe even PSM turned off. It will be the hell of a ride...if you come back in one piece.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    RC,

    Are you talking about on a track ? In everyday driving (not on a track) do you turn the PSM off ? Wouldn't the car handle better with stability management left on ? Funny in my old 03 X50 I never had a problem with stability management in rain or snow, but I never tracked the car. I was hoping that my new ride would handle at least as well in bad weather conditions. Thats a serious buzzkill.

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    It would be great if the Turbo gets the sport suspension option one day. Any chance ?

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    It would be great if the Turbo gets the sport suspension option one day. Any chance ?



    It would be great if one of the tuners manages to reprogram the PTM in addition to getting an X73. I really like the way the 996TT handles, but judging by what RC tells us, I would probably end up wrapped around a telephone pole with the 997TT .

    Re: 997 Turbo - Rennteam Review

    My 996TT was very predictable, neutral and easy to drive at the limit on the Ring. In fact too easy to keep challenging me to really improve my skills. The 997 TT is more unpredictable and requires more skill to drive safely at the limit. But why bother with flawed technology?

    If you want safe, easy and fast nothing does it better than the 996 TT (with suspension upgrade). If you want a challenging learning experience and the satisfaction that brings when you get it right, there is the 996 GT2 and 997 GT3.

    NBR lap times

    Porsche claims a good 7"49 on the Ring for the new 997TT. So, this time is achieved with the standard tires, not so much performing for TT. With the most performing Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, 997 set an astonishing 7"40. So I don't think it's a bad time (the same of Zonda, Veyron, etc.)! F430, driven by the same journalist, set a 7"55 on the Ring. A great difference, in each case? Don't you think? Porsche 997TT is a great car, with great performance. But I expectet much more from the Porsche. A car lake my old 930: a wild stallion, hard and pure!

    Re: NBR lap times

    Quote:
    Dario911 said:
    Porsche claims a good 7"49 on the Ring for the new 997TT. So, this time is achieved with the standard tires, not so much performing for TT. With the most performing Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, 997 set an astonishing 7"40. So I don't think it's a bad time (the same of Zonda, Veyron, etc.)! F430, driven by the same journalist, set a 7"55 on the Ring. A great difference, in each case? Don't you think? Porsche 997TT is a great car, with great performance. But I expectet much more from the Porsche. A car lake my old 930: a wild stallion, hard and pure!



    Porsche (and all manufacturer) times are unreliable. Please read this thread. http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...1&fpart=all


    The Sport Auto benchmark puts the 997 TT at 7.54 with Cup tyres. Four seconds slower than a 2003 M3 CSL.

    Re: NBR lap times

    The times for the CSL were acheived on a separate day so times cannot be directly compared and I highly doubt the CSL could beat the Turbo on a high speed track like the N'Ring.

     
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