Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Torque Converter Problems - Page1

Apr 5, 2007 2:41:05 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004

Torque Converter Problems

what would be telltale signs if a 997 turbo tip would have a faulty torque converter or if its starting to show problems ?

would any of the engine check lights or tranmission lights go off ?

When engaging D and steeping on the accelerator right away there is a shudder in the drivetrain. if i wait for 2 seconds there is no shudder.
transmission shifts fine through all gears and no problems.

cant remember if my C2S used to to the same when not waiting a matter of a few seconds for gear to fully engage.......

hope its not related to the few torque-brake starts i did

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Apr 5, 2007 3:46:52 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Torque Converter Problems

I would very well expect that it could be related. These vehicles are not really designed to be abused like you did. I used to be able to drive these cars over 100,000 miles without any transmission issues because I never abused them. From that earlier thread of yours I would not be surprised if you messed something up.

Dan

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Apr 5, 2007 4:02:04 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
intouch1 said:
what would be telltale signs if a 997 turbo tip would have a faulty torque converter or if its starting to show problems ?

would any of the engine check lights or tranmission lights go off ?

When engaging D and steeping on the accelerator right away there is a shudder in the drivetrain. if i wait for 2 seconds there is no shudder.
transmission shifts fine through all gears and no problems.

cant remember if my C2S used to to the same when not waiting a matter of a few seconds for gear to fully engage.......

hope its not related to the few torque-brake starts i did

Replied to you in the previous thread.

My reply

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Apr 5, 2007 4:04:25 PM

roadtrip: Veteran; Loc: new mexico, usa; Posts: 1172, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Torque Converter Problems

the replacement cost for the tt torque converter will soon be known...but perhaps not shared...just wondering if the on-board ecu lawyers will elect to void the entire warranty...yikes

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Apr 5, 2007 4:05:10 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: roadtrip

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
roadtrip said:
the replacement cost for the tt torque converter will soon be known...but perhaps not shared...just wondering if the on-board ecu lawyers will elect to void the entire warranty...yikes

If they decide to be dicks, they will. Torque-braking does constitute abuse.

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Apr 5, 2007 4:22:40 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
roadtrip said:
the replacement cost for the tt torque converter will soon be known...but perhaps not shared...just wondering if the on-board ecu lawyers will elect to void the entire warranty...yikes

If they decide to be dicks, they will. Torque-braking does constitute abuse.

I also agree with you.

BTW, your comment also answers the question-who is faster TIP or manual?

Potential answers:

1.TIP, but only for few runs...

2.Manual, for most drivers...

3.Well...

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Apr 5, 2007 4:38:49 PM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
KresoF1 said:

BTW, your comment also answers the question-who is faster TIP or manual?

Potential answers:

1.TIP, but only for few runs...

2.Manual, for most drivers...

3.Well...

hahahah

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Apr 5, 2007 4:46:04 PM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Torque Converter Problems

as mentioned before, it only shudders when i engage D and almost simultaeniously push the gas pedal. if i wait 1-2 seconds, everything is fine......

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Apr 5, 2007 6:14:35 PM

Nick_Athens: Senior; Loc: Greece , Greece; Posts: 710, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2004; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Torque Converter Problems

There is not a way to make a better acceleration with a TIp car( 0-100 )than 4.2 without stepping on the brakes... If you want to make 3.9 you have to step on the brake till 3000rpm and then simultanusly release the brake and push heavily the gas...
All the times I mention above is accurate.I used my Driftbox.

My car is stock except it has a cargraphic exhaust and maniford sets... 5000km

Something more.. In the very first runs I dont know why but the car is even slower...

WTF IS THE 3.7 THAT PORSCHE PROMISED ME WHEN I ORDERED TIP?!

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Apr 5, 2007 7:51:17 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
Nick_Athens said:
WTF IS THE 3.7 THAT PORSCHE PROMISED ME WHEN I ORDERED TIP?!

Well... It IS there, but you have to void your warranty to do it

.

Now the reason I know the tranny can be destroyed is because I did it on our Audi A6. Got better than factory 0-100 km/h time out of it by torque-braking, but the transmission was pretty much shot after repeated attempts. It would still drive and all, but it started jerking. I actually still have a video somewhere of my V1 radar detector jumping like crazy when the car downshifts and jerks

.

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Apr 5, 2007 8:29:19 PM

LoranTw: Senior; Loc: Canada; Posts: 569, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 14, 2006; Reply to: Nick_Athens

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
Nick_Athens said:
There is not a way to make a better acceleration with a TIp car( 0-100 )than 4.2 without stepping on the brakes... If you want to make 3.9 you have to step on the brake till 3000rpm and then simultanusly release the brake and push heavily the gas...
All the times I mention above is accurate.I used my Driftbox.

My car is stock except it has a cargraphic exhaust and maniford sets... 5000km

Something more.. In the very first runs I dont know why but the car is even slower...

WTF IS THE 3.7 THAT PORSCHE PROMISED ME WHEN I ORDERED TIP?!

It seems to me that if the only way to meet an advertised performance level is to tourque brake(the same method a company uses to entice one to purchase the product)then it can't be relied on by the manufacturer as a means to escape warranty. I'm not a lawyer but porsche voiding warranty cause a customer wants what he was sold doesn't compute. If all the experts maintain the only way to attain the advertised 0-whatever requires brake tourquing then Porsche finds itself in a bit of a quandry. Crash when do you graduate from Law school?

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Apr 5, 2007 9:08:19 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: LoranTw

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
LoranTw said:
Quote:
Nick_Athens said:
There is not a way to make a better acceleration with a TIp car( 0-100 )than 4.2 without stepping on the brakes... If you want to make 3.9 you have to step on the brake till 3000rpm and then simultanusly release the brake and push heavily the gas...
All the times I mention above is accurate.I used my Driftbox.

My car is stock except it has a cargraphic exhaust and maniford sets... 5000km

Something more.. In the very first runs I dont know why but the car is even slower...

WTF IS THE 3.7 THAT PORSCHE PROMISED ME WHEN I ORDERED TIP?!

It seems to me that if the only way to meet an advertised performance level is to tourque brake(the same method a company uses to entice one to purchase the product)then it can't be relied on by the manufacturer as a means to escape warranty. I'm not a lawyer but porsche voiding warranty cause a customer wants what he was sold doesn't compute. If all the experts maintain the only way to attain the advertised 0-whatever requires brake tourquing then Porsche finds itself in a bit of a quandry. Crash when do you graduate from Law school?

Soon enough, but unless I spend less time at Rennteam, that might not happen

.

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Apr 6, 2007 6:45:08 AM

W211: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 410, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: Crash

Re: Torque Converter Problems

I believe it's just speculation that Porsche will not cover if you do the starts to get the numbers they quoted in their brochure.

If it is considered abuse, does that mean they'll do a full disclosure when selling their press cars that warranty has been voided?

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Apr 6, 2007 6:52:05 AM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: W211

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Do not forget that all Porsche press cars are almost rebuild at Porsche factory before selling...

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Apr 7, 2007 2:17:57 AM

W211: Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 410, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 18, 2003; Reply to: intouch1

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
intouch1 said:
as mentioned before, it only shudders when i engage D and almost simultaeniously push the gas pedal. if i wait 1-2 seconds, everything is fine......

You should wait till the car is in gear before applying gas.

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Apr 7, 2007 5:10:31 PM

TulsaTurbo: Co-Pilot; Loc: Oklahoma, USA; Posts: 284, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 24, 2006; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Torque Converter Problems

KresoF1,

Now you know better than this!

There are two primary things a Tip does that makes it faster than a manual. Torque-braking is one of the two. Not dumping the boost when shifting gears is the second thing a Tip does that gives it an advantage over the manual transmission cars.

IMHO the second is by far the more imoportant of the two!

"...but only for a few runs." is likely right for those who do torque-braking with their Tips. But for those of us who do not torque-brake and are riding at (speed say 25 mph) let's see which is faster!

Again, the Tip does not dump the boost like a manual does when changing gears. How come some of you who drive manuals refuse to mention/acknowledge this advantage?

I would lay money that someone (for instance RC) that knows how to drive a Tip transmission turbo will be faster on track or road then 99/100 manual transmission cars. Only the true professional driver, driving the manual is likely to get their cars to be faster than an 'experienced' tip driver!

Even the professionals say this.

I enjoy your post, so goe easy here ...

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Apr 7, 2007 5:53:42 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: TulsaTurbo

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Well...

I understand your point.

BUT... Rolling start from 40km/h? TIP faster? Are you really sure?

So, you will be in Sport mode on and in what gear? First? Second? I think that you understand my point...

BTW, what about optional LSD? It is only available for manual. Why? TIP gearbox is too big so, no space for it.

And belive it or not-997 turbo has better traction with LSD in most conditions.

Why Porsche delivered 997 turbo manual with PCCBs, optional LSD and Michelin Cups to German Sport Auto magazine for their famous Supertest(Nordschleife etc.)?

Short answer-manual with optional LSD is faster on any track in hands of true enthusiast.

Back to original subject-torque braking is essential to get that 3.7s in 0-100km/h! Otherwise(normal start with TIP in second gear) no way to achive anything below 4.5s...
How many TIP owners will do this torque-braking practice once-in-a-while? 95%!

OK, you love TIP. Me manual with optional LSD.

In any case 997 turbo is in both versions awsome car IMHO.

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Apr 7, 2007 7:38:23 PM

AAHTT: Senior; Loc: san diego , United States; Posts: 654, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 21, 2006; Reply to: TulsaTurbo

Re: Torque Converter Problems

Quote:
TulsaTurbo said:
KresoF1,

Now you know better than this!

There are two primary things a Tip does that makes it faster than a manual. Torque-braking is one of the two. Not dumping the boost when shifting gears is the second thing a Tip does that gives it an advantage over the manual transmission cars. IMHO the second is by far the more imoportant of the two!

"...but only for a few runs." is likely right for those who do torque-braking with their Tips. But for those of us who do not torque-brake and are riding at (speed say 25 mph) let's see which is faster! Again, the Tip does not dump the boost like a manual does when changing gears. How come some of you who drive manuals refuse to mention/acknowledge this advantage?

I would lay money that someone (for instance RC) that knows how to drive a Tip transmission turbo will be faster on track or road then 99/100 manual transmission cars. Only the true professional driver, driving the manual is likely to get their cars to be faster than an 'experienced' tip driver! Even the professionals say this.

I enjoy your post, so goe easy here ...

How about this: Porsche says the TIP will reach 200km/h in 12.2 (with torque braking) vs 12.8 for the manual. Assuming these numbers are correct there is 0.6 sec difference.
if the TIP does 0-100 in 4.3 without torque braking, it already lost that advantage and the 2 cars will be even at 200. After 200 we all know what shorter gearing and less weight does to a car. the sustained boost cannot help the TIP anymore as there is only one gear change left.

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