Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline. - Page2

Apr 4, 2007 1:59:11 PM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
69bossnine said:

Alot of these mega-power Germans coming out are having to electronically eliminate the driver to keep the cars between the lines in 1st & 2nd gear. I recently read regarding the upcoming uber-Z06 that engineers were having to ADD weight to the rear, and then ballast elsewhere to achieve both traction and balance objectives. It really is getting a bit over-the-top, where compromises of totally superflous weight are being done just to be able to publish astronomically high h.p. figures, and make gearheads drool...

IMO it's ridiculous to build cars which (at least for a mortal driver) are simply undriveable without those electronic nannies

A couple of weeks ago I read a nice article somewhere (I think it was in EVO) about the question, whether putting too much hp into a car can kill the driving fun....
Very well put what you wrote about "feel" and "experience"

Would love to be a passenger in your space shuttle - don't worry about the seat cushion, I'll clip my fingernails before

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Apr 4, 2007 3:49:12 PM

deathnell: Junior; Loc: GD.CHN; Posts: 74, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 4, 2007; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

The horsepower war will never end unless several globle law is created.Whether or not it's boring and meaningleass,just looking at what's going on with Ferrari & Lambo,i wonder how can a gt3 catch u with a F430(may be a F500/F540 some years later) or a new Gallardo?
911s needs to be fast,but it's not realist for a NA 911GT3 to have 500 bhp。Do you think carbon fiber can turn a 997GT3 to a GT2?

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Apr 5, 2007 12:24:34 AM

Yargk: Pilot; Loc: SF Bay Area, CA, USA; Posts: 486, Gallery; Registered on: May 18, 2003; Reply to: deathnell

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
deathnell said:
Do you think carbon fiber can turn a 997GT3 to a GT2?

Doesn't Cargraphic beat more powerful turbo Porsches in the German Tuner GP with a lighter modified GT3?

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Apr 5, 2007 4:20:45 PM

avi8tir: Junior; Loc: SoCal; Posts: 82, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 9, 2006; Reply to: Grant

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

No kidding! How long until BMW finally equips its M-cars with real brakes?

I have an E46 M3 w/ the Competition Package... the brakes are awesome. they don't even flinch on the track.

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Apr 5, 2007 7:18:58 PM

911c2s: Newbie; Loc: MA, USA; Posts: 24, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 21, 2005; Reply to: avi8tir

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

How many would consider getting a Lotus Elise/Exige? Given that weight is a high priority amongst many of us, fun factor, and living on the hairy edge... or is it too raw? They sound like a return to the excitement instilled by the original M3 and much older porsches?

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Apr 5, 2007 7:46:12 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: 911c2s

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
911c2s said:
How many would consider getting a Lotus Elise/Exige? Given that weight is a high priority amongst many of us, fun factor, and living on the hairy edge... or is it too raw? They sound like a return to the excitement instilled by the original M3 and much older porsches?

Not me.... I want my cake and eat it too... And I'm not really one to bitch about the weight of my 997... It's a nice balance of performance and refinement and every-day liveability.

The Lotus is too small, too ugly, too hard-core. It's a toy car for using as a toy, and has no luxury or utility aspect... For those who don't want any luxury aspects in their Porsche, it'd be nice to have a "stripper" lightweight model for you guys... but it's tough for Porsche to justify going to the trouble at a "low-end" price. You'd be asking them to spend money to sell a cheaper 911, which as a business, is a bit counterproductive... As-such, they put those efforts into higher-dollar GT2 and GT3 models, where they can pad the price to help cover the expenses of development costs spread across low-production..

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Apr 5, 2007 8:51:42 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12588, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: 911c2s

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
911c2s said:
How many would consider getting a Lotus Elise/Exige? Given that weight is a high priority amongst many of us, fun factor, and living on the hairy edge... or is it too raw? They sound like a return to the excitement instilled by the original M3 and much older porsches?

I would, but I can't fit in it (my torso is too long, even though I'm only 5'11").

That and the fact that even the new supercharged Exige S weighs 150 lbs more and has less power, less torque and lesser brakes than my 911

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Apr 5, 2007 9:38:43 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: devo

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
devo said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
devo said:
The M3 may well weigh in under 3500 lbs.

Maybe without the engine

LOL. You may be correct, but BMW have gone on record stating that light weight is the mission for this car. Some rumors (albiet rumors suggest it could weigh in between 3470-3525; with the engine, of course. Time will tell.

Devo, it will weigh 1580 kg, according to BMW, but that usually means to add at least another 50 kilos or so with BMW. Between 3600 and 3700 lbs is my guess. In any case, I'd rather hjave the new RS6 when that comes out. Close to 600 bhp (more than enough for anybody but Turbo Al

), AWD and a much more luxurious ride. M3s here are driven by boy racers and most perceive them as being wannabe Porsches. Then again, it is going to be a good car, but trying to compare it with the 911 is about as fruitful as a burned-out tree trunk.

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Apr 5, 2007 10:49:22 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
devo said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
devo said:
The M3 may well weigh in under 3500 lbs.

Maybe without the engine

LOL. You may be correct, but BMW have gone on record stating that light weight is the mission for this car. Some rumors (albiet rumors suggest it could weigh in between 3470-3525; with the engine, of course. Time will tell.

Devo, it will weigh 1580 kg, according to BMW, but that usually means to add at least another 50 kilos or so with BMW. Between 3600 and 3700 lbs is my guess. In any case, I'd rather hjave the new RS6 when that comes out. Close to 600 bhp (more than enough for anybody but Turbo Al ), AWD and a much more luxurious ride. M3s here are driven by boy racers and most perceive them as being wannabe Porsches. Then again, it is going to be a good car, but trying to compare it with the 911 is about as fruitful as a burned-out tree trunk.

My statement regarding the weight was, at the time, speculative, however proved to be accurate. Nonetheless, I believe BMW has done quite well with the power to weight. The M3 in space grey with 19" wheels is stunning; imo. In the states, M3's are not considered boy racers or wannabe Porsches. I am not comparing the car to the 997, but Porsche needs to step up to the plate. For those who state that it's too much power to handle are not giving BMW credit where it is due. The looks of the M3 are subjective, but c'mon, it will perform as well or better than the CSL. For the record, I plan on owning the M3 and another 997S (facelifted). A little variety never hurt anyone, right.
I was not aware that BMW's weight claims were erroneously low. Is that a common practice with BMW?

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Apr 5, 2007 11:15:13 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: devo

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
devo said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
devo said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
devo said:
The M3 may well weigh in under 3500 lbs.

Maybe without the engine

LOL. You may be correct, but BMW have gone on record stating that light weight is the mission for this car. Some rumors (albiet rumors suggest it could weigh in between 3470-3525; with the engine, of course. Time will tell.

Devo, it will weigh 1580 kg, according to BMW, but that usually means to add at least another 50 kilos or so with BMW. Between 3600 and 3700 lbs is my guess. In any case, I'd rather hjave the new RS6 when that comes out. Close to 600 bhp (more than enough for anybody but Turbo Al ), AWD and a much more luxurious ride. M3s here are driven by boy racers and most perceive them as being wannabe Porsches. Then again, it is going to be a good car, but trying to compare it with the 911 is about as fruitful as a burned-out tree trunk.

My statement regarding the weight was, at the time, speculative, however proved to be accurate. Nonetheless, I believe BMW has done quite well with the power to weight. The M3 in space grey with 19" wheels is stunning; imo. In the states, M3's are not considered boy racers or wannabe Porsches. I am not comparing the car to the 997, but Porsche needs to step up to the plate. For those who state that it's too much power to handle are not giving BMW credit where it is due. The looks of the M3 are subjective, but c'mon, it will perform as well or better than the CSL. For the record, I plan on owning the M3 and another 997S (facelifted). A little variety never hurt anyone, right.
I was not aware that BMW's weight claims were erroneously low. Is that a common practice with BMW?

It is a common practice with many manufacturers, including BMW. I agree with you abot Porsche needing to at least match the M3's straight-line performance. After all, nobody wants to be left standing by a car that costs half as much as his Porsche

. The stated figure, as it is, lies at just over 3500 lbs, but looking at other Bimmers (and their weight discrepancies), I'd wager it will be close to 1650. Then again, the car will be no slouch, regardless of whether it weighs 3500 or 3700 lbs, just not as light as we'd want.

Regarding image, I agree that it's very different in the States and Canada, but BMW 3 series (and 6 series) are notorious here for boy racers. Whether it be old E30s and E36s (and now E46s), bought by kids who spend all their money on maintenance and gas or the new 3 series and the M6s, driven by over-potent offspring of wealthy business owners; what they have in common is that they are all perceived to be driven by dicks. Other Germans are much more respected here (and I realize that it's just the people driving the cars, but I definitely wouldn't want to be associated with such people).

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Apr 5, 2007 11:40:33 PM

chuckd: Newbie; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 42, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: devo

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

The new M3 has taken significantly longer than a Carrera S to lap the Nurburgring, based on preliminary results on the web and articles (Still around 8min 12 sec). That is no where close to the CSL. While its still an improvement over the old model, they have a long way to go due to its weight.

M3's not boy racers here in the states? Have you seen whose driving these cars in California? If you don't believe, just take a look at the M3 internet forum topics: "Smoked an F430 today" "Killed an AMG SL65!" "Destroyed a 997TT".

And for the record, I like m3's (well e36's more so than all the others).

Article w/ ring time: http://www.autoblog.nl/archive/2007/03/06/bmw-m3-concept-jawohl

Official M3 press release: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/index_highend.html

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Apr 5, 2007 11:53:24 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: chuckd

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
chuckd said:
The new M3 has taken significantly longer than a Carrera S to lap the Nurburgring, based on preliminary results on the web and articles (Still around 8min 12 sec). That is no where close to the CSL. While its still an improvement over the old model, they have a long way to go due to its weight.

M3's not boy racers here in the states? Have you seen whose driving these cars in California? If you don't believe, just take a look at the M3 internet forum topics: "Smoked an F430 today" "Killed an AMG SL65!" "Destroyed a 997TT".

And for the record, I like m3's (well e36's more so than all the others).

Article w/ ring time: http://www.autoblog.nl/archive/2007/03/06/bmw-m3-concept-jawohl

Official M3 press release: http://www.bmw.com/com/en/index_highend.html

After further thought, I would have to say that I have seen a lot of this type behavior on the forums. I just do not see it first hand here in the northeast.
I just hope that the 3483 stated weight is accurate.

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Apr 6, 2007 5:10:27 PM

catdog: Junior; Loc: United States; Posts: 137, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2005; Reply to: devo

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

I really enjoyed my e46M3 even more than my e60M5 and yes it is not a "real" sports car but the engine was highly tuned and was a screamer; it actually felt faster than my 997S because of the more peaky engine even though everyone knows that's not the case. I think there is something to be said for the new e92M3 it seems that they have the weight below 3500lbs but you have to sacrifice the moonroof to save 10kg for the ugly CF roof gimmick. Anyhow, i think it they can approach the spirit of the e46M3CSL then they will have something really worthwhile. Yes it seems like the M3's are driven by immature teenage-types but the car is a pleasure to drive and master and at least it comes with a real LSD in the US, can Porsche claim that on their 997 and 997S? Food for thought huh?

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Apr 7, 2007 2:45:35 AM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: avi8tir

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

Quote:
avi8tir said:

No kidding! How long until BMW finally equips its M-cars with real brakes?

I have an E46 M3 w/ the Competition Package... the brakes are awesome. they don't even flinch on the track.

No way are the uprated size floating caliper brakes even close to those on a 997. I've had my share of BMWs, and beyond heat capacity, the brakes have *never* had the feel of a Porsche brake.

This is why bmw owners migrate to stoptech/brembo/big reds.

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Apr 8, 2007 11:01:38 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: frayed

Re: 420hp & 8400rpm redline.

The M3 sucks on tracks but shines on the autobahn (where the weight and brakes are adequate) and it eats high-speed bumps with ease.

If you hit a big bump at 270 km/h on an autobahn sweeper would you feel safer in a 997 C2S or an E46 M3?

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