Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headaches? - Page1

Mar 26, 2007 3:59:01 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004

A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headaches?

You know our cars are heavily reliant on software and electronics (No kidding: My PCM kept crashing and even my sunroof was involved!). The 911 has never been so extensively digitized as it is now.

Anyway, makes you wonder about keeping these cars for the long term.

Found this in Panorama January 2007. It's an essay on PASM and PSM (page 82). The last paragraph is referring to these systems but this insight likely applies to all the computerized systems in the car.

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Mar 26, 2007 4:24:31 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6920, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headaches?

I made a recent observation regarding my PASM system (after 43K). Although my alignment is correct the cars pulls slightly to the right (even taking into account the crown of the road). As soon as I set the shocks to 'Sport' the car no longer pulls to the right and tracks true. I don't think it's software related though. It may be the valves in the shocks 'wearing out' from the constant switching. Who knows? I would pay for a simple device that would just allow me to select a setting manually and not let the computer intervene.
Cheers,

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Mar 26, 2007 6:10:44 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headaches?

It's a valid question but I have found that reliability of such systems has improved vastly over the years. Otherwise they would be a nightmare.

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Mar 26, 2007 6:57:46 PM

Ludikrisspeed: Co-Pilot; Loc: Florida, USA; Posts: 246, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: Dan L

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headaches?

Worst case senario, you can still pull them out and install coil-overs.

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Mar 26, 2007 7:24:18 PM

Damian: Senior; Loc: Pa, USA; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 10, 2005; Reply to: Dan L

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headaches?

PSM system has been out since 1998/ 1999 as an option on the 996, standard equip in '01 I think..... and personally I have never heard of a single PSM system failure or out-of-warranty problems since its introduction.

PASM might go goofy on us at some point, and even then I wouldn't get too worked up-- necessity is the mother of invention....... several coil-over options already available, widespread pasm failures would drive even more aftermarket suppliers to produce a 'cheap' replacement solution of coil-overs/conventional strut/ PASM !diot-light defeat. Long ago I had a BMW E34 M5 with hydraulic self-leveling suspension-- notoriously error-prone, easily replaced with conventional set-up.

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Mar 27, 2007 1:13:18 AM

nemo2006: Newbie; Loc: northern virginia; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 30, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headaches?

I'm not so sure. My 997S cab has a strange gremlin that reports a PASM failure warning if the car is powered up and sitting for too long (like garage work). If you go and drive it the warning disappears. Keep in mind that mine was one of those unfortunates that was held up at the port while being delivered while that module was replaced (back in 2005). It was replaced again when the car went into sport mode on its own while driving on the beltway and refused to disengage; a bit worrisome. I still wonder about the long term issues that might develop with this complex system.

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Mar 27, 2007 5:55:30 AM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: nemo2006

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headaches?

Just another argument in favor of leasing Porsches rather than owning them for the long term. I'll never forget when my mechanic said that my 993 needed $10K of engine work. Within two weeks I handed it to the dealer on a trade for a 996 lease and never looked back to Porsche ownership again.

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Mar 27, 2007 9:26:34 AM

gradyex: Pilot; Loc: S.F. Bay Area, CA.; Posts: 334, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 21, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headach

Quote:
MMD said:
You know our cars are heavily reliant on software and electronics (No kidding: My PCM kept crashing and even my sunroof was involved!). The 911 has never been so extensively digitized as it is now.

Anyway, makes you wonder about keeping these cars for the long term.

Found this in Panorama January 2007. It's an essay on PASM and PSM (page 82). The last paragraph is referring to these systems but this insight likely applies to all the computerized systems in the car.

Funny you bring this up MMD. In the past month my car has needed a new front module (return to workshop issue), a new Nav screen (it just failed all of a sudden) and a stubborn electrical issue where my interior reading center lamp light does not go off like it should when the key is removed (it does go off after 2 full minutes). I am bringing the car in this wed to fix that. These cars rely on a lot of software and communicating modules (3 total) as opposed to one one in the 996 so their have been a few electrical issues not only with the 2005 models but 2006 and possibly 2007. The failures occur suddenly and can come any time without warning. I would not own these vehicles out of warranty. Prior to last month there was only 1 issue with a "return to workshop" light after waxing the front of the car when it was new in my 2 years of ownership,

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Mar 27, 2007 12:01:43 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: gradyex

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headach

Out of warranty ownership could definitely get very costly. 4 years is plenty of time to own one

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Mar 27, 2007 2:33:26 PM

Jim48: Senior; Loc: Virginia, USA; Posts: 639, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headach

Given the problems cited by various owners/leasors, this definitely merits watching by folks like me who had hoped to keep the car a long time.

Jim

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Mar 27, 2007 3:57:10 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Jim48

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headach

Quote:
Jim48 said:
Given the problems cited by various owners/leasors, this definitely merits watching by folks like me who had hoped to keep the car a long time.

Jim

I know. It really sucks. Like everything has changed and we're just realizing it. Half the fun of ownership is taking care of the car and holding onto it. It's a different thing to feel you should plan to get rid of it after four years. Dammit.

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Mar 27, 2007 4:48:21 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headach

Occasionally my car locks me in when I put the key in the ignition (I don't have it configured to auto-lock at 5mph).
The light on the 'lock doors' button lights, but the alarm isn't set, so it isn't just me accidentally pressing the keyfob button.

Also occasionally, it'll try to over-inflate the driver lumbar pad (I have electric seats) on unlocking the car. This stops when you turn the ignition on or touch the lumbar control on the seat. I couldn't work out what the hell the whirring noise was for a while!

On opening the front trunk from the key, the car auto re-locks and chastises me with a beep from the horn after about 10 seconds. I'm sure it shouldn't do that!

And I'm sure I have PASM and now PSM gremlins creeping in.
PASM keeps turning hard, even on light driving.
PSM traction control doesn't seem to be stepping in, and I'm not sure the stablity control is either, though difficult to test on public roads.
My stingy UK 2-year warrantee runs out in a month.
I think my love affair with Porsche is coming to an end with it.

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Mar 27, 2007 5:37:12 PM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headach

Quote:
MMD said:
It's a different thing to feel you should plan to get rid of it after four years. Dammit.

MMD, I feel exactly the same - my Porsche is my "baby" providing so many good vibes in the much too short quality time of my life. With a short time ownership perspective or leasing attitude (no offense - nothing wrong with leasing if it makes sense from a financial point of view) it would feel like my corporate car

@ wtsnet: I feel so sorry for you, bud

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Mar 27, 2007 5:58:33 PM

Texas911: Senior; Loc: Houston, Texas - USA; Posts: 766, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2003; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headach

Welcome to the 21st Century.

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Mar 27, 2007 6:45:09 PM

Damian: Senior; Loc: Pa, USA; Posts: 646, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 10, 2005; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: A Glimpse of Future Longterm Ownership Headach

Quote:
wtsnet said:
Occasionally my car locks me in when I put the key in the ignition (I don't have it configured to auto-lock at 5mph).
The light on the 'lock doors' button lights, but the alarm isn't set, so it isn't just me accidentally pressing the keyfob button.

Also occasionally, it'll try to over-inflate the driver lumbar pad (I have electric seats) on unlocking the car. This stops when you turn the ignition on or touch the lumbar control on the seat. I couldn't work out what the hell the whirring noise was for a while!

On opening the front trunk from the key, the car auto re-locks and chastises me with a beep from the horn after about 10 seconds. I'm sure it shouldn't do that!

And I'm sure I have PASM and now PSM gremlins creeping in.
PASM keeps turning hard, even on light driving.
PSM traction control doesn't seem to be stepping in, and I'm not sure the stablity control is either, though difficult to test on public roads.
My stingy UK 2-year warrantee runs out in a month.
I think my love affair with Porsche is coming to an end with it.

What a shame, that sounds like major gremlins in the works. I would dump or trade the car in the next month.

At UK Porsche prices they ought to at least increase the warranty to 4 years... probably wouldn't be 4 year warranty in the U.S. if not for Lee Iaccoca offering then-radical 10 year/100K miles warranty when he was rescuing Chrysler in the 80's, forced all the other mfr's to begrudgingly raise the bar to 4/50K or 5/60K.

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