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    Mar 22, 2007 7:33:47 AM

    temm
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    BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Winding Road is supposed to release some official information later today so we will (hopefully) see if this is a leak or just speculation:

    Quote:
    After months of speculation surrounding BMW's next M3, we can finally confirm some of the details from our previous post, namely, the new M3 will be powered by a 420hp V8 engine with peak torque of 400Nm. This latest information was first posted on Dutch website AutoTelegraff, including this first look at the new high-revving V8 powerplant.

    Derived from the potent 5.0L V10 engine used in the larger M5 and M6, the new V8 unit will displace 4.0L and produce its peak 420hp output at a lofty 8,300rpm, while maximum torque is 400Nm. Though this latter figure might not seem impressive, 85% of twist will come from just 2,000rpm. Yes that's right. Thanks to the Double Vanos valve technology, the new V8 engine delivers up to 340Nm of torque from only 2,000rpm.




    http://www.motorauthority.com/cars/bmw/bmw%e2%80%99s-new-v8-engine-for-the-m3/

    Mar 22, 2007 8:11:43 AM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Power is ok I guess...
    BUT, 400Nm(at 3900rpm) of torque is little bit on low side...
    Both RS4 and specially R8 will be faster(specially in gear) then new M3. Only if BMW did serious diet on M3 it could beat RS4...

    Look at 997S X51 engine 381hp/415Nm, new specs for 4.0L V8 are nothing special IMHO...

    And M3 will weight around 1630kg, so think twice about world beating performance...

    Mar 22, 2007 9:03:49 AM

    dg911
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Agree,this is not impressive
    Seems that the torque curve will be more E36 3.2 type than E46 type, which isn't bad for daily driving... For something more exciting let's wait a CSL version

    Mar 22, 2007 10:43:53 AM

    andrea
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    Reply to: dg911

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=83983807yg9.jpg

    http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=23836595zf7.jpg

    http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13583817hj0.jpg

    Mar 22, 2007 11:50:25 AM

    temm
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    Reply to: andrea

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Thanks Andrea, all the pics can be found here:
    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52519

    Here it is in all its details:

    Mar 22, 2007 12:21:57 PM

    bostonmini
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    I thought all M cars had indivual throttle bodies?

    Mar 22, 2007 12:32:02 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: bostonmini

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    You need to look more carefully...

    Mar 22, 2007 12:38:57 PM

    bostonmini
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    thanks kreso! they should leave that engine cover off, its much nicer without it!

    Mar 22, 2007 12:56:37 PM

    temm
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Power is ok I guess...
    BUT, 400Nm(at 3900rpm) of torque is little bit on low side...
    Both RS4 and specially R8 will be faster(specially in gear) then new M3. Only if BMW did serious diet on M3 it could beat RS4...

    And M3 will weight around 1630kg, so think twice about world beating performance...



    Here's the power curve:

    Mar 22, 2007 12:57:21 PM

    temm
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    And all the official specs:

    Mar 22, 2007 1:16:30 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Tim,
    This is awsome engine, but it is not any better then RS4/R8 engine IMHO.
    Torque curve is pretty flat, but power curve is not so...

    In gear acceleration of M3 will not be any better then 335i...

    Mar 22, 2007 1:44:04 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    8300RPM? that is fantastic. Thats going to be one sporty engine

    I'll take a high-reving atmospheric engine over a torquey low reving one any day. I.e. 997GT3 vs 996TT for example.

    Lets hope BMW can keep reliability under control at such high engine speed usage, and keep the weight of the total package decent so as not to ruin it. Performance should be similar to Audi's depending on the weight I guess.

    Mar 22, 2007 2:07:10 PM

    dg911
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Quote:
    temm said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Power is ok I guess...
    BUT, 400Nm(at 3900rpm) of torque is little bit on low side...
    Both RS4 and specially R8 will be faster(specially in gear) then new M3. Only if BMW did serious diet on M3 it could beat RS4...

    And M3 will weight around 1630kg, so think twice about world beating performance...



    Here's the power curve:



    Previous M3 for compararison

    Mar 22, 2007 2:40:41 PM

    dg911
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    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Press release comments regarding the torque ...

    The fact remains that more power alone - that is higher torque - is not
    sufficient to be a winner. And so the BMW M3 outperforms competitors focusing on the torque concept alone, wherever those models require a massively reinforced and, accordingly, heavy drivetrain to convey their extremely high level of torque, since this extra weight and mass must first be accelerated and propelled to a higher speed. The high engine speed
    concept, on the other hand, enables the engineer to opt for a much lighter drivetrain and choose a far shorter transmission ratio.

    Mar 22, 2007 3:20:58 PM

    997GT3RS
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    Reply to: dg911

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    8300 rmp?

    Great! If it is reliable.

    I brought some new BMWs in the past and there were so many problems!

    Mar 22, 2007 4:29:16 PM

    boytronic
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    Reply to: 997GT3RS

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Double Vanos? I hope it doesn't fail like in the E36...

    Given all the known info, the overall performance of this car will be interesting to see...

    Mar 22, 2007 5:47:12 PM

    SteveD
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Power is ok I guess...
    BUT, 400Nm(at 3900rpm) of torque is little bit on low side...
    Both RS4 and specially R8 will be faster(specially in gear) then new M3. Only if BMW did serious diet on M3 it could beat RS4...

    Look at 997S X51 engine 381hp/415Nm, new specs for 4.0L V8 are nothing special IMHO...

    And M3 will weight around 1630kg, so think twice about world beating performance...



    There is nothing to say that the new M3 will be anywhere near 1630kg. BMW have been bragging for over a year now about how light the next M3 will be, so let's give them a chance to prove if that's true. If you read the press release they've certainly gone to town on the exhaust system and if the CF roof is an indication of their attention to detail then anything less than it being 'lighter' than the E46 M3 will be regarded as a failure.

    Let's face it, if BMW had produced a run-out version of the E46 M3 with 420PS we would have been raving about it.

    Also let's bear in mind that this is a powerplant with quoted figures very similar to the 997GT3 (309kw & 400Nm for the M3 against 305Kw and 405Nm for the GT3) and there aren't too many people bemoaning the lack of performance in the GT3.

    Let's see how heavy the total car weighs before drawing any conclusions.

    Mar 22, 2007 6:26:37 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: SteveD

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Steve,
    I know that you are true M3 fan, but do you really belive that new M3 will weight less then 335i(I am tlking about coupe versions)?
    335i coupe already weights around 1600kg(in Sport Auto Supertest) so, claim about M3 weight less is little bit too optimistic IMHO... And do not forget that V8 is 16kg heavier then biturbo R6...

    My BMW dealer claim that new M3 will be little bit heavier then e46 version.

    More interesting pics incl. front of saloon version here:

    http://www.autozeitung.de/online/render.php?render=49041&size=

    Mar 22, 2007 6:55:48 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    If the E46 series is any indication, the E46-M3 was 70kg heavier than the E46-330Ci, so 1630Kg for the new M3 is completely reasonable IMO.

    Mar 22, 2007 6:55:55 PM

    SteveD
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    The E46 M3 weighed around 60kg heavier than a 330i coupe (from memory), so I see no reason whatsoever why the E92 M3 should not weigh less or the same as a 335i.

    Bear in mind that the new V8 engine weighs 15kg 'less' than the S54 six in the E46 M3. Then the E92 M3 comes with a CF roof weighing 6kg or so less than an aluminium roof, plus it has a thin walled exhaust which saved around 20kg when they used this on the CSL and we are already up to a potential saving of 40kg over the 1570kg E46. So unless they have negated all these savings by adding every conceivable option as standard then BMW will have performed a pretty poor task if it ends up weighing anywhere near 1630kg.

    The 335i weighs 55kg 'more' than today's 330i, so on that basis the 335i could end up being the heaviest of the petrol engined 3-series models.

    Mar 22, 2007 7:28:08 PM

    svtrader1
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Power is ok I guess...
    BUT, 400Nm(at 3900rpm) of torque is little bit on low side...
    Both RS4 and specially R8 will be faster(specially in gear) then new M3. Only if BMW did serious diet on M3 it could beat RS4...

    Look at 997S X51 engine 381hp/415Nm, new specs for 4.0L V8 are nothing special IMHO...

    And M3 will weight around 1630kg, so think twice about world beating performance...



    You're comparing apples to oranges here. Compare apples to apples. The last M3 had 340hp and 270ft.lb. From 340hp to 420hp is very significant! Torque goes from 270 to 300 isn't much, but, it's much flatter and peaks much sooner than its predecessor.

    There will be a very noticable difference in performance compared to the last M3. The difference will be like going from a F360 to F430. The F430 is slightly heavier than the 360, but, it was more than off set by its power gain.

    The M3 will be a bit faster than the RS4.

    Mar 23, 2007 12:30:11 PM

    andrea
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    Reply to: SteveD

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    0-100 4,6-4,7??
    0-200 14,9-15,5?
    0-1 km 22,9-23,5??

    Mar 23, 2007 5:49:32 PM

    964C2
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Quote:
    temm said:
    Thanks Andrea, all the pics can be found here:
    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52519

    Here it is in all its details:



    Is this a new BMW option....assemble the engine yourself

    Mar 23, 2007 7:20:10 PM

    temm
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    Reply to: 964C2

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Quote:
    964C2 said:
    Quote:
    temm said:
    Thanks Andrea, all the pics can be found here:
    http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52519

    Here it is in all its details:



    Is this a new BMW option....assemble the engine yourself



    No, it's spyshot from the floor at Audi's Quattro gmbh where they have taken apart the M3 engine to learn how a proper engine is built

    Mar 23, 2007 7:21:27 PM

    temm
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    Reply to: svtrader1

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Quote:
    svtrader1 said:
    The M3 will be a bit faster than the RS4.



    Bring on the Sport Auto Supertest, and let's find out!

    Mar 24, 2007 12:24:43 PM

    andrea
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Pdf of the engine.

    http://shrani.si/files/thenewv8enwcux.pdf

    Confronto andamento coppia

    BMW M3 vs RS4
    1500rpm 285Nm - 340Nm (+55)
    2000rpm 330Nm - 370Nm (+30)
    2500rpm 360Nm - 400Nm (+40)
    3000rpm 380Nm - 400Nm (+20)
    3500rpm 400Nm - 400Nm
    4000rpm 400Nm - 400Nm
    4500rpm 395Nm - 410Nm (+15)
    5000rpm 395Nm - 420Nm (+25)
    5500rpm 400Nm - 430Nm (+30)
    6000rpm 400Nm - 415Nm (+15)
    6500rpm 395Nm - 400Nm (+5)
    7000rpm 390Nm - 390Nm (+5)
    7500rpm 380Nm - 380Nm
    8000rpm 370Nm - 370Nm

    "As you will see the M3 has a very even torque curve which will make it very linear but as you will also see never does the RS4 produce less torque than it and most of the time it produces more, in some cases a lot more"


    video

    http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/03/bmw-unleashes-new-m3s-420hp-40-liter-v8.html

    Mar 24, 2007 1:17:00 PM

    SteveD
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    Reply to: andrea

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    And then of course you need to factor in gearing to determine 'torque at the wheels' which is what you actually feel causing the car to accelerate.

    One of the points you might conclude from the above comparison is that it's less important to Audi to even out the torque distribution since they have 4WD to distribute it onto the road. BMW on the other hand need to achieve better driveability working with only 2WD.

    The final reckoning once gearing is taken into account is what each car weigh.

    Mar 24, 2007 1:54:05 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: SteveD

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    Steve, I fully agree with you on this.

    AFAIK new M3 will be introduced with 6speed manual gearbox, later with ZSG(or whatever..)...

    I am really interested to see the gearing and final ration.

    Mar 24, 2007 2:39:27 PM

    devo
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW's new V8 engine for the M3

    I realize that this IS a Porsche forum, but c'mon give BMW some major kudos here. This engine is going to be very inspiring and will likely run with the 911S; I know not on the track, but trackies are the minority.
    To say that the M3 will not be any faster than the 335 is crazy. And as far as the posts about engine reliabilty; look at how many 911 engines implode and/or have RMS issues.
    Lastly, as far as the RS4 is concerned, I'm quite confident the M will out run it. (Less overall weight and less parasitic HP loss; not to mention a host of other go fast goodies that the M engineers utilize.)

    Mar 24, 2007 11:53:20 PM

    911fan
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    Reply to: temm

    Re: BMW’s new V8 engine for the M3

    BMW really seems to take pride in putting immense work into the design of their engines, very impressive.

    That exploded view of the engine is making me foam at the mouth.
     
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