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DavidSF said:
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nberry said:
David, if the sole criteria for depreciation is supply how do you explain the pathetic depreciation of the best Porsche ever built the CGT? Only 650 were brought into the US and presently they are selling for at least 1/3 off MSRP.
Or what about the GT2 which is second to the CGT in performance and less than 750 were brought into the US. They have abysmal resale value less than 2/3 their original selling price.
Look Porsche makes a terrific car but the have diluted the brand and image. As a result, resale values of their cars compared to other premium brands are far from where they should be.
Finally, regarding the 430 being ugly, two weeks ago I took my 430 Spider to the Porsche dealer because I had to meet with the service rep.
A customer with his wife in the showroom walked over to me and said "is that your Yellow Ferrari? May my wife and I go a look at it? How am I suppose to buy a Porsche when I see something like that sitting out there?" I told him because Porsche makes a terrific car.
My car was parked in the service driveway. The mechanic's and service rep's. were all going outside to look and admire the car. As one mechanic said "there are cars and there are Ferrari's." You are definitely in the minority.
I didn't mean to imply supply was the only factor in depreciation. Of course demand and mileage are also factors. However in the case of very expensive cars, i.e. $150k+, I do think supply is a bigger factor than demand in resale value. Supply becomes a bigger factor the higher the price. That's why I think the CGT doesn't have very good resale value. There's too many of them. If Porsche made as many CGTs as Ferrari made Enzos, they would be selling for more than MSRP. However Porsche isn't like Ferrari, thank god. Porsche cares about their customers and enthusiasts so they made enough of them so their customers can purchase them without paying "through the nose" and without waiting years. Frankly Nick, I doubt CGT buyers care about resale value. They just want to buy the car without having to wait years. Thus Porsche did the right thing for their customers. Yes, some Porsche owners of cheaper models do complain about resale value but they probably stretched their finances and probably shouldn't have bought it in the first place. Fact is, I, and I think most other enthusiasts, would rather have Porsche models available without a years long wait and at or below MSRP, than excellent resale values. Yes, I would make that trade any day. As for Porsche diluting the brand and image, I don't think that view and importance is as prevalent as you might think. I for one don't care about the Cayenne as long as Porsche continues to produce outstanding sports cars like the 997, Cayman, and Boxster. Something for everyone. It's only the gold diamond encrusted Rolex crowd that care about such things. As for your stories about your Ferrari and the attention it gets, again, there will always be people who will "ooh and awhh" at a gold diamond encrusted Watch. Ferrari is a great marque. But they have gone downhill in terms in styling/design since the F355. Let's hope their new design chief can get away frome the recent weird looking cars (actually the 599 looks good) and restore the classic, distinctive, and classy Ferrari look.
David
David - What sports cars do you own/have you owned? Doesn't matter if you haven't owned any, you still have as good a right to post here as any. The reason I ask is I just want to have an idea about where you're getting some of your opinion's from because honestly I'm beginning to think you're kind of a knucklehead. (meant in a playful way) No offense it's just that some of your positions are...well they just seem like personal assumptions than based on reality. Here's what I mean:
"However Porsche isn't like Ferrari, thank god. Porsche cares about their customers and enthusiasts so they made enough of them so their customers can purchase them without paying "through the nose" "
First off the majority of owners of both P-car's & F-car's will tell you if Porsche cares about anything it's PROFIT, then the customer. Secondly, it's the CGT owner that is the one "paying through the nose" NOT the Enzo owner.... You're right Porsche isn't like Ferrari when it's regarding where the money goes Porsche pockets the cash with both fists while Ferrari has managed to allow their customers to enjoy their cars trading in whenever they want without taking a bath. If Porsche cared so much about their customers why would they be the most profitable car company on earth making more, sometimes dozens times more per car than Ferrari or any other manufacturer? If they cared so much about getting more CGT's into the hands of customers and not about making money off their customers why would they have CUT at the last minute the amount of CGT's to be produced from 1500 to 1250? Why not just make those 1500 cars and let more people afford them?
"Frankly Nick, I doubt CGT buyers care about resale value"
????? Unless you're a Saudi prince I'm betting you care about what happens to your half a million dollar purchase, whether it be a car, real estate or anything else that costs half a million dollars, the people that can afford a car at that price didn't get wealthy by not caring about what happens to their money.
"It's only the gold diamond encrusted Rolex crowd that care about such things"
First off whatever your prejudice is, it's a shame you're continuing it here on a sports car forum. As P-car/ F-Car owners we already have enough clueless people making judgements about why we love these cars. Second off I don't own a gold diamond encrusted Rolex and if someone does good for you. But where do you get this analogy from anyway? I can honestly say that in the last few years of attending dozens of Ferrari events and rally's I've yet to see a single F-car owner wearing a "gold diamond encrusted Rolex". Do you often attend Ferrari rallye's where everyone is wearing diamond encrusted Rolex's or is it just something you decided that you've seen in your mind, kinda like the "vulgar" comment ? It's weird but according to you the Gallardo Spyder is a fantastic looking car but the 430 Spider is like a "gold diamond encrusted Rolex". The cars are very, very similair, it's not like you're comparing a 430 vs a Ford Taurus. Come on, honestly what's your REAL beef w/ Ferrari? Did you get treated badly by a dealer or something?
RE: Your next post : "I'm blasting Ferrari for "spitting in their customers' faces."
Yeah, Ferrari customers are really being spit on by Ferrari, the best Ferrari customers those Enzo owners really got the shaft and sucks owning a F430, I feel like I just got ripped off.... The whole Ferrari experience from driving the heck out of my CS and then trading it in 2 years later, making money in the process, to visiting the factory with my wife for a free tour and then picking up my bee spoke, customized 430, the Ferrari dealer/sales experience was just horrible, including the personalized service, wish I was treated more like when I pick up my P-cars. Even my Ferrari dealer's charity rally events that they organize twice a year, where the Police close down traffic on Long Island highways for us to drive on, it's a terrible thing, the balls of them to ask me to participate. Spit! And the icing on the cake - there's the horrible performance of the 430, I mean it's just a terrible car to drive, no fun at all, how can Ferrari even offer this car to it's customers they should be ashamed... Yeah, I feel like Ferrari is spitting at the owners, it's been just terrible. lol! ridiculous.