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    Mar 6, 2007 9:27:31 PM

    ChristianH
    Newbie
    ChristianH
    Loc: Goteborg, Sweden
    Posts: 2, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 5, 2007

    Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    Hi,

    As far as I understand, there have been some issues regarding the early PCCB rakes. When really used, i.e. hard driving on circuits - there have been cracks and in some cases, splinters has falled of the rotor. I've heard that some owners replace the PCCB rotors with steel rotors just to save the future replacement cost...

    If this is still the case with the never cars - which steel rotors fits the PCCB equipped 997 GT3, are there OEM parts available or any other manufacturer?

    Thanks in advance.
    ChristianH

    Mar 7, 2007 3:17:53 AM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: ChristianH

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    Christian - this was only a problem on the 996 cars (all except 996 Turbo S). The 997 (including GT3 and Turbo), Cayman, and Carrera GT all have improved PCCB - reports are excellent on these.

    Mar 7, 2007 3:21:29 AM

    SVNSVN
    Rennteam Pro
    SVNSVN
    Loc: CA, USA
    Posts: 2994, Gallery
    Registered on: May 22, 2005
    Reply to: ChristianH

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    Welcome, Christian!

    I believe the problems of the earlier generation PCCB have been resolved. I love mine!

    Mar 7, 2007 3:22:41 AM

    SVNSVN
    Rennteam Pro
    SVNSVN
    Loc: CA, USA
    Posts: 2994, Gallery
    Registered on: May 22, 2005
    Reply to: SVNSVN

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    Thanks , Grant!

    Mar 7, 2007 7:42:45 PM

    Leawood911
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    Leawood911
    Loc: Kansas, USA , United States
    Posts: 6920, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 29, 2006
    Reply to: SVNSVN

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    43K miles on my Ceramics. My 'regular' mechanic thought they were brand new when he saw them for the first time a few weeks ago, in fact he thought they had just been replaced. I have no doubt that on the street these rotors would last 200K if not abused. I have never had any noises from these brakes and there is never any brake dust to speak of (which is another great benefit). I finally got to drive a NON PCCB car and could tell that the additional un-sprung weight made a very noticable difference in the 'quickness' of the suspension.

    Mar 7, 2007 7:48:52 PM

    Jim48
    Senior
    Jim48
    Loc: Virginia, USA
    Posts: 639, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 24, 2005
    Reply to: Leawood911

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    Makes me wish I had gotten the PCCB's as an option. It sounds like they are worth the price.

    Jim

    Mar 8, 2007 7:58:15 AM

    andrea
    Rennteam Master
    andrea
    Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy
    Posts: 3569, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 24, 2003
    Reply to: Jim48

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    The french magasine sport auto in the #520 issue (may 2005) ad tested both the PCCB and regular brakes on the porsche 997 carrera s.
    The test were performed on the Mortefontaine's auto facility (France) with speedway and roadtrack.

    PCCB front : 350*34 mm, 6 piston calipers, yellow
    PCCB rear: 350*28mm , 4 piston calipers, yellow
    car's weight 1446kg
    tires: michelin pilot sport 235/35 zr19 front & 295/30 zr 19 rear

    Regular carrera s brakes front : 330*34 mm, 4 piston calipers , red
    Regular carrera s brakes rear : 330*28 mm, 4 piston calipers , red
    car's weight 1467kg
    tires :michelin pilot sport 235/35 zr19 front & 295/30 zr 19 rear


    tests were the following:

    20 braking from 200km/h to 0, one lap of the Mortefontaine's oval speedway beetween each braking (3 km)
    3 braking from 250km/h to 0, one lap of the Mortefontaine's oval speedway beetween each braking (3 km)
    time attack on the Mortefontaine's inner roadtrack (ala Indiannapolis)


    First test: 20 braking from 200km/h to 0

    Carrera S regular brakes : 200km/h - 0 = 5 sec, 138 meters, 11.1 m/s of deceleration
    20th braking : same numbers, efficacity loss : 0%

    Carrera S PCCB : 200km/h - 0= 5.sec , 140 meters, 11 m/s of deceleration
    20th braking : same numbers, efficacity loss : 0%

    Winner : Big reds



    Second test: 3 braking from 250km/h to 0

    Carrera S regular brakes : 250km/h - 0 = 224 meters, 10.7 m/s of deceleration
    3th braking : same numbers , efficacity loss : 0%

    Carrera S PCCB : 250km/h - 0= , 226 meters, 10.6 m/s of deceleration
    3th braking : same numbers, efficacity loss : 0%

    Winner : Big reds

    Third test : Time attack on track

    Carrera s regular brakes : 1st signs of problem after 5 laps
    Carrera S PCCB : no problems after 5 laps

    Winner : PCCB

    All the tests were performed in the order 1 - 2 - 3, without changing any part of the brakes.

    Mar 8, 2007 10:16:54 AM

    easy_rider911
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    easy_rider911
    Loc: London , United Kingdom
    Posts: 22190, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
    Reply to: andrea

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    What I understand from that test then is this:

    Both brakes perform equally well BUT get PCCB if (1) you want to track the car or (2) you don't want brake dust or (3) you want improved handling from lower unsprung weight PROVIDED you are prepared to risk damage from gravel traps AND instead of paying for brake pads/discs regularly, you prefer to pay a larger amount for such items after a very, very long interval.

    I'm still neutral and just very glad the choice exists

    Mar 8, 2007 10:22:22 AM

    loe
    Co-Pilot
    loe
    Loc: Belgium
    Posts: 181, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2007
    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    goh, reading this makes me doubt again...

    especially the unsprung weight is really important
    anybody had cracks/damage from gravel traps already?

    Mar 8, 2007 1:13:11 PM

    frayed
    Senior
    frayed
    Loc: Austin, TX , United States
    Posts: 510, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2004
    Reply to: loe

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    What the test does not tell is how the brakes feel, how easy they are to modulate. With pccbs on my 997S, they were so pinpoint accurate you felt like you could dance the car on the head of a pin.

    The point of PCCBs is NOT and NEVER was decreased braking distance over a single stop. These figures, brake distance, deceleration force, etc, are a function of *tire* choice and brake bias. Any brake system that can get the tires into lockup (ABS) has sufficient power to make the shortest stop possible on a given car. Accordingly, single length stopping distances are a silly measure and the data above show pccb and steel are equivalent (as expected, unless PAG messed around with brake bias on the cars).

    The point of PCCBs: better feel (which translates into better, faster laps), reduced fade from repeated laps (more heat resistance, better thermal capacity), lower unsprung weight (makes the car feel lighter, more lively and more wanting to change direction).

    I still have yet to hear of a single damaged rotor from gravel traps.

    But they are expensive and for a car that is absolutely thrashed on track, perhaps not the ideal choice. For cars that only see track use, and see a lot of it, I'd go steel. For the average buyer, who tracks, at most, a few days a month, the PCCBs are a great choice.

    Mar 8, 2007 2:35:33 PM

    Jim48
    Senior
    Jim48
    Loc: Virginia, USA
    Posts: 639, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 24, 2005
    Reply to: frayed

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    Interesting results and comments. Given that I haven't tracked my 911S yet (and probably won't track it a lot), I should have gone with the PCCB's to eliminate the brake dust and for greater longevity.

    Jim

    Mar 8, 2007 3:24:05 PM

    frayed
    Senior
    frayed
    Loc: Austin, TX , United States
    Posts: 510, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2004
    Reply to: Jim48

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    Jim, while the PCCBs are great, it's hard to argue that they are worth the money. They have great pedal feel, have 20% the dust, look great, but they are pricy. Definitely not a great bang for the buck option since the steel brakes are soooo good.

    Nine grand will buy you wheels, track rubber and a whole bunch of track days, or a whole bunch of lap dances, or great set of bolt ons for the wife.

    I did spec them on my GT3 though.

    Mar 9, 2007 1:39:48 AM

    Deanski
    Junior
    Deanski
    Loc: Norwalk, CT USA
    Posts: 69, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 7, 2006
    Reply to: frayed

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    I too have PCCB's on my C2S and love these things! Not only do they weigh less, they look good, have little to no dust, and pedal feel is perfect.

    These are Generation II. The Gen-I had cracking problems, but these newer ones are perfect.

    Have yet to track it and will be soon. If I was tracking it more often, maybe steels, but still like having less weight on the wheels. Money no object, PCCB's.

    The red C2S brakes are nothing to sneeze at! These are the best around. Brembo makes the calipers anyway.

    You can put the cash in more items that you really want, say X51, more unique options etc.

    Just hate the though of the cost of rotor replacement whenever it may come.

    Regards,
    Deanski

    Mar 9, 2007 6:15:52 PM

    Dan L
    Expert
    Dan L
    Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States
    Posts: 1957, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 2, 2006
    Reply to: Deanski

    Re: Issues regarding the PCCB brakes

    I'm a happy PCCB owner. My logic for ordering them was the longer time between maintenance, lower unstrung weight, dust, and performance. Over my many years with Porsche I've only once run out of brakes with any sort of 911 and it was quickly fixed by bleeding the fronts before I returned to the track. In time I think more people will catch on to the PCCBs and unit prices will start to come down. One other issue comes to mind more these days. Rusty rotors. I have never seen so much rust on rotors as the steel 997 ones.

    Dan
     
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