Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - BMW M3 Concept In Geneva - Page4

Mar 7, 2007 6:33:41 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

What bothers me is the front of the car looks like a cartoon. Remember when the Jaguar was a beautiful car because and it shared a _few_ traits with that sleek exotic cat?

Now BMW has fallen into the pit (Viper, Corvette, Dodge) where cars have to literally look like aggressive reptiles so ZERO imagination required. The car looks "aggressive" as if inspired by a cartoonish mentality. Anybody else bothered by this? Zero sophistication, just "It's a reptile, don't you get it?" Such overstatement is suuuuuch a turn off. I'd feel stupid driving a car which should be in a Disney World parade.

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Mar 7, 2007 6:37:38 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

...and the rear end is mangled and embellished beyond any hope of keeping your lunch down.

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Mar 7, 2007 6:43:16 PM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
MMD said:
Zero sophistication, just "It's a reptile, don't you get it?" Such overstatement is suuuuuch a turn off. I'd feel stupid driving a car which should be in a Disney World parade.

Completely agree

The funny thing is that the only sportscar with a reptile's name (aka Boxster Coupé

) doesn't look like a reptile at all

It seems to be a major trend now and there are only very few new models which combine elegance and sportiness at the same time

But maybe I'm just getting old and these toys are targeted at another audience

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Mar 7, 2007 7:14:05 PM

997GT3RS: Senior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 637, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
MMD said:
...and the rear end is mangled and embellished beyond any hope of keeping your lunch down.

This thing looks like an aftermarket Japanese areo parts - useless and busy design.

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Mar 7, 2007 7:54:11 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
But maybe I'm just getting old and these toys are targeted at another audience

Yep you nailed it.

I just realized that while doing something else after writing that last ranting posts of mine.

It's like a whole new literal mindset in younger people. Nothing wrong with that. Afterall our grandparents and parents swooned over big fins and torpedoes on their cars.

There's enough frustration and road rage on the highways; WTF would I want MY car to be aggressive looking add to the aggression is beyond me. I'd rather sail by it all and not be noticed except by alert people with brains.

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Mar 7, 2007 8:00:58 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: 997GT3RS

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
997GT3RS said:
Quote:
MMD said:
...and the rear end is mangled and embellished beyond any hope of keeping your lunch down.

This thing looks like an aftermarket Japanese areo parts - useless and busy design.

LOL.

I like to compare it to the plumbing fixture or "decorative" hardware aisle at Home Depot.

They just can't leave shine-y sculptured faucets and door knobs alone; they have to add all these flutes, and flares, and textures and BS to them to appeal to..., whom? A bored, brain dead, overworked, barely surviving, single mother of three? (I'm sorry, may God Bless her).

Anyway my point is why just keep adding BS to something like the rear end of the new M3? Take a look at the freeking mirrors! Gesus!

Awwwwwgh!

Mirror:

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Mar 7, 2007 8:12:05 PM

997GT3RS: Senior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 637, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
MMD said:
Quote:
997GT3RS said:
Quote:
MMD said:
...and the rear end is mangled and embellished beyond any hope of keeping your lunch down.

This thing looks like an aftermarket Japanese areo parts - useless and busy design.

LOL.

I like to compare it to the plumbing fixture or "decorative" hardware aisle at Home Depot.

They just can't leave shine-y sculptured faucets and door knobs alone; they have to add all these flutes, and flares, and textures and BS to them to appeal to..., whom? A bored, brain dead, overworked, barely surviving, single mother of three? (I'm sorry, may God Bless her).

Anyway my point is why just keep adding BS to something like the rear end of the new M3? Take a look at the freeking mirrors! Gesus!

Awwwwwgh!

Mirror:

Just like hanging a pair of ear ring on a fat pig.

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Mar 7, 2007 8:34:51 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
MMD said:
What bothers me is the front of the car looks like a cartoon. Remember when the Jaguar was a beautiful car because and it shared a _few_ traits with that sleek exotic cat?

Now BMW has fallen into the pit (Viper, Corvette, Dodge) where cars have to literally look like aggressive reptiles so ZERO imagination required. The car looks "aggressive" as if inspired by a cartoonish mentality. Anybody else bothered by this? Zero sophistication, just "It's a reptile, don't you get it?" Such overstatement is suuuuuch a turn off. I'd feel stupid driving a car which should be in a Disney World parade.

This kind if front bumper seems to be highly in vogue nowadays...

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Mar 7, 2007 8:43:20 PM

VGA18: Veteran; Loc: Istanbul and Tampa; Posts: 1029, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2006; Reply to: Rossi

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

I like it except the front bonnet.

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Mar 7, 2007 8:44:07 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: MMD

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
MMD said:
...and the rear end is mangled and embellished beyond any hope of keeping your lunch down.

Agreed.

The first generation M3 was something special, very aggressive since BMW used whole new body panels for the car that distinguished it from its less powerful brothers. The later versions of the M3 were much more discreet with only subtle changes compared to the standard 3series.
With the new M3 it seems that BMW wants to give the car the aggressiveness of the first version back, but changing only parts like front/rear bumpers and side skirts gives the car a rather cheap look.

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Mar 7, 2007 8:50:02 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
devo, the -20mm sports suspension is not some rare, exclusive suspension option for the diehard track day fan. Any 997 buyer in any country outside the USA and Canada can get it if they want.

I know Porsche overcharges for every little option BUT this one is FREEEE!! P17 -20mm sports suspension is a no-cost option on a 997S and costs the same as the PASM upgrade on a standard 997.

It also includes a rear LSD.

You lucky bastxxx!

I wish we could get the suspension and LSD. My only point was that those two options helped the test car perform better. We always get boned in the states.

I've heard that Porsche was adding 15 ponies to the 2008MY 997S, unfortunately not near the 400 stated above. That is where it should be though.

To each his/her own. I like the looks of the M3. I don't like the Bangleized M5 or M6. And, I will agree 911s are timeless with beautiful lines.

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Mar 7, 2007 9:26:21 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: devo

Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

KresoF1, temm, guys, I totally respect your views.

No doubt the M3 will be a seriously quick car. It should be faster in a straight line than a 997S (provided that it can put all that power down onto the road surface - which is no small assumption ... e.g. M6).

Porsche relies on the whole package working together to produce fast times. We all moan and complain about wanting more bhp and torque - and I hope PAG listens to these prayers.

It remains to be seen whether the M3 will be quicker round a track than the 997S. Hopefully the facelifted 997S will mean this is an easier battle since the current 997S has been around since mid 2004. (Let's not forget that).

But guys, when all is said and done (about engine, performance etc etc) there are factors which would make it certain that I would never buy a M3 no matter how fast it is.

You see, here in the UK, the M3 attracts totally the wrong crowd. Hooligans buy this car. I could not possibly buy a car that would mean people would associate me with those types of hooligans.

I totally echo Porsche-Jeck's observation that the M3 is made for a crowd that thinks totally differently from me about what image and impression their car is supposed to give off to other people.

I don't want my car to look aggressive and mean. Why would I want people to 'hate' me when they don't even know me (as a typical BMW driver is often so hated in the UK)? I don't want people to think I'm an a**hole just because I drive an M3.

I sold my old 328i to an independent BMW specialist. I got talking with this guy who has been buying and selling BMWs for 2 decades. He said the M3s which come to him always have on average 2-3 owners in 2 or 3 years. They are often abused and make risky buys for him as a businessman. He doesn't buy M3s for onward sale anymore. He is tired of engine failures due to cars he has onsold having been abused before he bought them.

So, I respect your views very much but I humbly beg to differ in my view on the attractiveness of this car no matter how good it may be on paper

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Mar 7, 2007 9:34:40 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

BTW, about the times of Walter Rohrl, in my very humble opinion, these are not irrelevent. They show what the car CAN do. It may be hard to extract that performance from the car (through lack of talent) but the car itself CAN do that time.

Okay, for comparison purposes, you want to eliminate the variable factor of driver ability so you want all times from the same driver (Horst von Saurma). That approach seems logical enough....however, the other side of this coin is that Rohrl's times show what the car can do and we should not assume other cars are capable of anything more than what ANY driver can actually extract from the car. So why reduce the maximum performance of a car to what von Saurma can extract from it? Surely, all we should care about then is the maximum that can be extracted...not the lowest common denominator of what von Saurma can get out of each car....just putting an alternative theory forward

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Mar 7, 2007 9:38:48 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

Easy,

I like your 997S more then new M3! New M3 will be very fast, but design wise car looks... Well, not my cup of tea.
I like R8 much, much more then new M3 as well!

New M3 will have excellent engine(V8 will be a true beast IMHO), very good chassis and will be fast as hell... BUT, brakes look funny and general apperance is hooligan like if you know what I mean...

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Mar 7, 2007 9:42:01 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
... and general apperance is hooligan like if you know what I mean...

Well, at least it's a BMW 3series, you know what I mean, Kreso?

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Mar 7, 2007 9:46:01 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Rossi

Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
... and general apperance is hooligan like if you know what I mean...

Well, at least it's a BMW 3series, you know what I mean, Kreso?

You mean like this two M3 buddies?

One is reading new M3 brochure while other is impatient to be in his place!

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Mar 7, 2007 9:55:34 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
... and general apperance is hooligan like if you know what I mean...

Well, at least it's a BMW 3series, you know what I mean, Kreso?

You mean like this two M3 buddies?

One is reading new M3 brochure while other is impatient to be in his place!

Yeah, some (I emphasise: some ) 3series-drivers remind me of this:

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Mar 7, 2007 10:06:09 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
Completely agree The funny thing is that the only sportscar with a reptile's name (aka Boxster Coupé ) doesn't look like a reptile at all

Did you know you could order crocodile skin trim from Exclusive instead of leather in the Cayman?

About the M3: it's unfortunate its main market appears to be chavs, drug dealers, and the richer half of the "Fast 'n' Furious" crowd. I miss the elegant and racy E36 M3.
The performance is great for the price, though. I just hope the brakes will cope.

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Mar 7, 2007 10:18:14 PM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: The Groom

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Kreso, I've been reading many forums on the new M3 since tuesday and there have been some information written by an apparent BMW "insider" that stated that the concept shown in Geneva is a hybrid of the upcoming standard M3 and it's CSL variant. That is, some of the features shown the concept will be different from the production standard M3. The information didn't mention anything specifically, but I'm guessing we could see the power-dome minimized, the rear bumper simplified and no carbon fiber in the roof.

Do you have any further insights on this?

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Mar 7, 2007 10:18:33 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: The Groom

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
The Groom said:
Quote:
Porsche-Jeck said:
Completely agree The funny thing is that the only sportscar with a reptile's name (aka Boxster Coupé ) doesn't look like a reptile at all

Did you know you could order crocodile skin trim from Exclusive instead of leather in the Cayman?

About the M3: it's unfortunate its main market appears to be chavs, drug dealers, and the richer half of the "Fast 'n' Furious" crowd. I miss the elegant and racy E36 M3.
The performance is great for the price, though. I just hope the brakes will cope.

One look at the immaturity on any BMW/M3 forum confirms this.

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Mar 7, 2007 10:23:06 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: The Groom

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

It really is upsetting this new M3! Since they bungled the entire product line earlier I was hoping BMW would catch themselves and do something classy and "race car-ish" with the M3 as the last car to be "updated."

Insted they made it "more aggressive" and did something as base and as trendy as General Motors made the Dodge Magnum or Pontiac made the Firebird (both totally forgettable cars).

I REALLY like BMWs. Have owned them my entire driving career. I WANT to like BMWs.

I WANT to like the new M3 (want to eventually replace my current 04M3).

But DAMMIT! I feel completely abandoned by BMW these days. Now that the word "understated" has been murdered, it's not surprising that the adjectives "elegant" and "sophisticated" no longer apply to these cars.

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Mar 7, 2007 10:35:14 PM

Moogle: Rennteam Master; Loc: Bay Area , United States; Posts: 5019, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 9, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
MMD said:
It really is upsetting this new M3! Since they bungled the entire product line earlier I was hoping BMW would catch themselves and do something classy and "race car-ish" with the M3 as the last car to be "updated."

Insted they made it "more aggressive" and did something as base and as trendy as General Motors made the Dodge Magnum or Pontiac made the Firebird (both totally forgettable cars).

I REALLY like BMWs. Have owned them my entire driving career. I WANT to like BMWs.

I WANT to like the new M3 (want to eventually replace my current 04M3).

But DAMMIT! I feel completely abandoned by BMW these days. Now that the word "understated" has been murdered, it's not surprising that the adjectives "elegant" and "sophisticated" no longer apply to these cars.

I suppose thats how many car-people feel these days... 'abandoned' by the companies. Even in the Porsche camp. I mean what is up with the new GT3... sigh.

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Mar 7, 2007 10:59:23 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Moogle

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
Moogle said:

I suppose thats how many car-people feel these days... 'abandoned' by the companies. Even in the Porsche camp. I mean what is up with the new GT3... sigh.

Yeah, Thanks for your perspective, good point, wow. The 996 version looked good to me and at least only had the wing to live with. The 996 GT3 was great in that it did't insist on standing out. Now, the 997 GT3 with the _fabulous_ wing and slats and vents it's competing with (and, IMO, winning over) the Turbo for garish-osity. Too bad the 997 GT3 is, on all other aspects, a significantly better car.

Geez!

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Mar 7, 2007 11:25:39 PM

Hurst: Veteran; Loc: Potomac, MD; Posts: 1255, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2005; Reply to: The Groom

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
The Groom said:
About the M3: it's unfortunate its main market appears to be chavs, drug dealers, and the richer half of the "Fast 'n' Furious" crowd. I miss the elegant and racy E36 M3.
The performance is great for the price, though. I just hope the brakes will cope.

Bingo

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Mar 8, 2007 4:37:14 AM

POR911: Pilot; Loc: VA; Posts: 324, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2005; Reply to: Hurst

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

i actually like it alot!
But if i could change something, it would be the rear bumper!

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Mar 8, 2007 10:03:02 AM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
MMD said:
I REALLY like BMWs. Have owned them my entire driving career. I WANT to like BMWs.

But DAMMIT! I feel completely abandoned by BMW these days.

Same over here

I always liked BMWs (still have a pre-Bangle E46 in my garage and as a teenager I have been dreaming about a 2002 tii

) and I'm certainly not into BMW bashing. Also the "agressive look" fashion is not a BMW monopoly. I'm wondering what made the agressive look so popular these days

Maybe it has to do with what we Germans call "Überholprestige" (overtaking prestige) which helps a lot on the Autobahn, if you want to go fast. In the old days it has been rather simple: if a Porsche or a Ferrari showed up in the rear view mirror, everybody made room for the fast car. Since the high powered derivates of normal sedans (M BMW, AMG Merc, S Audis) have been introduced it became more complicated (from a distance of a couple of 100m nobody could tell whether a humble A4 1.4 TDI or a powerful RS 4 would approach from behind).
It all started with the VW Golf GTI in 1976. At that time it has been relatively easy to differentiate the GTI from the normal Golf: as the Design of the Golf has been very clean (almost simplicistic) it needed only very few changes to differentiate the GTI (slightly different grill + the red stripe surrounding the grill did the trick). Also - if I recall correctly - the first GTI versions came in red and white paint only.
Today even the entry level cars try to look agressive, so the high powered versions need an even more agressive look to be recognised as fast cars on the Autobahn.
To make matters worse, the posers can buy an entry level 3series or C-Class equipped with an "M-package" or "AMG-package" by the factory

IMO it's a kind of vicious circle

The good thing is that Porsche or Ferrari don't have to follow this crazy design trend (nobody would mistake them for an Audi or a FIAT

). The irony is that in former times sedans could look elegant, whereas sportscars looked more agressive - today sometimes it's just the other way round

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Mar 8, 2007 10:09:19 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: My car's an aggressive reptile, see?

Quote:
The irony is that in former times sedans could look elegant, whereas sportscars looked more agressive - today sometimes it's just the other way round

This is a good observation.

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Mar 8, 2007 4:45:00 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: zzboba

M3 for the socially deprived?

Although I am serial Porsche owner and not a drug-dealing hooligan, I like the new M3 and would be happy to drive it as a family/business car.

But fortunately I live in small town Germany near the Ring - not in wild Londonistan where some feel they must distinguish themselves with a Porker or be branded as socially and culturally deprived

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Mar 9, 2007 10:23:47 AM

Schemeloong: Co-Pilot; Loc: Hong Kong; Posts: 233, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 12, 2005; Reply to: AUM

Re: M3 for the socially deprived?

If it does have DSG, coupled to a delicious 4liter high revving V8, I'm all over it. Looks like an awesome street fighter, but for track days I would stick with P cars and Lotuses. The car isn't so porky by modern standards, but hope Bimmer can provide more raw road feedback to the driver.

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Mar 9, 2007 11:45:55 AM

Shakal: Expert; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 1375, Gallery; Registered on: May 30, 2006; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: BMW M3 Concept In Geneva

E92 looks better in flesh than on pictures, but this M3 already looks great on pictures. Im sure it will be very fast car, already 335 coupe is great car to drive.

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