Crown

Joost:

And did you order one? 

Yes  - some time ago. Should be here in October I hope and 720S is coming in similar timeframe.

crayphile:

MKSGR:

How did you like it in comparison to the 720s 

Tough one. The McLaren is clearly faster and has better steering and great driving position. The Lamborghini feels more stable (its 4WD) , but that engine   - its response and sound speak to me like no turbo charged torque monster ever will. Performante wins on looks too. If I could only have one it would be the Performante I think .

Interesting to read your impressions  The Performance also lacks this nimbleness of the low-weight and super stiff 720s chassis - don't you agree? Gear box is also better with the 720s, right?

In summary, the only real advantage of the Performante is probably the n/a engine (if one likes n/a engines). Would you agree with this summary (and leaving design - as a highly subjective aspect - out of the equation)  

crayphile:

Joost:

And did you order one? 

Yes  - some time ago. Should be here in October I hope and 720S is coming in similar timeframe.

Oh wow, nice!
If you don't mind me asking; how do you decide what you drive in the morning? I can imagine you're not keeping all cars at home but have some in storage/garage elswhere as well. And do you find yourself skipping all the fancy cars and driving into town with a simple VW golf or so because it is less of a hassle? Haha sorry, just can't really imagine how it must be like to have such a nice stable :-)

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

crayphile:

I had the pleasure of driving the Huracan Performante for the first time today. In short  - the greatest Lamborghini of all time without any doubt . Finally a true driver's car from Lamborghini. I had a Huracan before but this is essentially an altogether new car - its better in every conceivable fashion, barring the brakes which were already great on the Huracan.

Brake system has stayed the same and yes, it is great but not as great as it could be, especially compared to Porsche.

True driver's car? Indeed. I finally had the chance to drive the Huracan Performante as well but the whole thing is a bit tricky for various reasons, so I cannot really post my experience or photos because a couple of things went "wrong" (in a positive sense, as weird as this may sound). Thing is: I badly want this car, cannot afford it though but I was able to secure myself a car (if I want one) for next year (summer). Still hoping for a R8 GT though for various reasons, mostly cost and stealth appearance though.

The steering feel is definitely  improved , the exhaust sound has a much deeper more "baritone" sound to it but still sounds utterly epic. The gear shifts are noticeably faster and the whole driving experience feels much more precise. The car is incredibly stable through bends and responds instantaneously when putting the power down coming out of the bend. I was surprised that in the Corsa setting that things did not get much more aggressive than in the Sport setting which is where I normally have road cars. With the 4WD - this might be the first car that I drive regularly on the road in a "track" setting. Its going to be a great autumn/winter..

Lamborghini definitely did a great job but like you said, this is a driver's car, not a car you want to brag with how fast it is.  I haven't had a chance to drive the 720S yet, maybe this autumn if I find the time but judging from the experience of a friend (exhaust sound "crap"...his words and noticeable turbo lag, he drives a Carrera GT), I doubt I will like it. He liked the traction control though, car felt basically like AWD...until it started raining. 

I wish Lamborghini would have gone the whole nine yards, offering a substantial power upgrade but I guess the current 5.2 l V10 engine is done at 650 hp, the gearbox is (as rumors indicate) good for 600 Nm only and Audi probably doesn't want to put more money in V10 n/a engine development since it probably doesn't make much sense for them anymore.

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Joost:

If you don't mind me asking; how do you decide what you drive in the morning? I can imagine you're not keeping all cars at home but have some in storage/garage elswhere as well. And do you find yourself skipping all the fancy cars and driving into town with a simple VW golf or so because it is less of a hassle? Haha sorry, just can't really imagine how it must be like to have such a nice stable :-)

All depends what is going on. First decision is how many passengers. Hassle is never a part of the equation, but I do drive the Yaris from time to time! You are correct  - the cars are rotated as there is not enough room at home. Time of year is also a factor  - more of the convertibles at home during summer e.g Speciale Aperta here now and will swap it for the Speciale soon. Boxster Spyder will go in to hibernation soon as well. Its also fun just to plan ahead - first world problems for sure . The next three months or so are going to see some spectacular new arrivals as well - watch this space....

So good to see that this car segment is getting so competitive and several players bringing good options. That engine on the performance is a big plus over the competition though, straight line performance aside which has limited use nowadays, and from a truly drivers car perspective, that engine separates the men from the boys compared to the others, like a RWD car among a group of FWD cars. Let's hope the pencil pushers behind the legislative policies that don't have anything better to do don't kill it to soon.

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

So good to see that this car segment is getting so competitive and several players bringing good options. That engine on the performance is a big plus over the competition though, straight line performance aside which has limited use nowadays, and from a truly drivers car perspective, that engine separates the men from the boys compared to the others, like a RWD car among a group of FWD cars. Let's hope the pencil pushers behind the legislative policies that don't have anything better to do don't kill it to soon.

Things look bad. Very bad. Particulate filters for direct injection engines are next and while most car manufacturers have these filters sitting in the (development) drawers, these filters have a big impact on throttle response, power and exhaust sound, no matter if manufacturers say otherwise. 

Also, I asked how it is possible that certain manufacturers get such a good 200-300 kph performance out of their cars and one engineer told me that some manufacturers (he actually named one specifically) are pushing it hard at the upper speeds because there is nobody to "control" the performance and emissions(!) of the engines at these speeds. Thermodynamics play a role as well of course but a car with similar power and weight doing 0-300 kph with a 8-10 seconds difference? Impossible. Unless the manufacturer ignores certain emissions standards (which btw. isn't necessarily illegal but... ). It will be only a matter of time before environmental groups and politicians will take notice of this and act accordingly. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Carlos from Spain:

So good to see that this car segment is getting so competitive and several players bringing good options. That engine on the performance is a big plus over the competition though, straight line performance aside which has limited use nowadays, and from a truly drivers car perspective, that engine separates the men from the boys compared to the others, like a RWD car among a group of FWD cars. Let's hope the pencil pushers behind the legislative policies that don't have anything better to do don't kill it to soon.

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

For me the Performance is unattractive mostly because it lacks power... Also, I seriously doubt that it will be particularly quick on the track (despite the Lampe marketing story) 

P.S.: While design is subjective - compared to the 720s the Performante looks a bit like an old ricer carafe you see it life... But of course, highly subjective 

Markus, you like elegance and power, nothing wrong with that. 

I still suggest you take a R8 V10 Plus test-drive, just to understand the "concept". 

The Huracan Performante is "just" a notch sportier...

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

MKSGR:

Carlos from Spain:

So good to see that this car segment is getting so competitive and several players bringing good options. That engine on the performance is a big plus over the competition though, straight line performance aside which has limited use nowadays, and from a truly drivers car perspective, that engine separates the men from the boys compared to the others, like a RWD car among a group of FWD cars. Let's hope the pencil pushers behind the legislative policies that don't have anything better to do don't kill it to soon.

--

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

For me the Performance is unattractive mostly because it lacks power... Also, I seriously doubt that it will be particularly quick on the track (despite the Lampe marketing story) 

P.S.: While design is subjective - compared to the 720s the Performante looks a bit like an old ricer carafe you see it life... But of course, highly subjective 

I agree that probably the track is not going to be the strong point of the performante, I don't buy the hype. But I see it more like a 991R o manual 991.2GT3 vs GT2RS, more intended for enjoyment on the street as a drivers car with dije compromises like on power but with a glory of an engine.

Regarding design, indeed it's very subjective, just as an example, for me both the 720S and the performante are too over the top in design, I wouldn't be comfortable at the wheel with such an attention grabbing design I prefer much more discretion, though I understand that these cars need such a design. If it were a track only car then I wouldn't mind at all though.

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Thanks crayphile for your driving experience, I appreciate such valuable first-hand information very much.

Now, you've already gave some impression about how the Perfomante compares to a 720S, so I guess comparing it to a 488 would have a similar outcome. But you've mentioned the Speciale/Speciale Aperta in one of your last posts again, what would you say, how does the Perfomante compare to what is arguably one of the greatest, if not the greatest NA-V8 from Ferrari?

We're at the point where you can be the fastest or just sound like you're the fastest.



The secret of life is to admire without desiring.

Rossi:

Thanks crayphile for your driving experience, I appreciate such valuable first-hand information very much.

Now, you've already gave some impression about how the Perfomante compares to a 720S, so I guess comparing it to a 488 would have a similar outcome. But you've mentioned the Speciale/Speciale Aperta in one of your last posts again, what would you say, how does the Perfomante compare to what is arguably one of the greatest, if not the greatest NA-V8 from Ferrari?

Personally, I warmed a little bit up to the 488 GTB and I really didn't like this car in the beginning. Had two test-drives in it and I have to say that if I had to take a turbo charged car, I would very likely go for the 488. Very good setup, very little lag (I don't know how much turbo lag the 720S has but those who have driven it claim that it isn't much different to the 650S, maybe a tiny bit better depending on the driving mode and this is still lightyears ahead from the almost lag-free 488). Not a fan of the traction issues though, once I turn the steering wheel a little bit, the 488 starts to move the rear. I can do some crazy stuff in the R8 before my rear even starts to get nervous (and I don't mean my rear ).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Funny how I am going the other direction compared with you guys. 

I skipped the 720S and go for slower cars with the Aston 😂

Whoopsy:

Funny how I am going the other direction compared with you guys. 

You do? Don't you own a Huracan Spyder? 

I skipped the 720S and go for slower cars with the Aston 😂

Well, some people skip the 720S and go with the Huracan Performante instead. 

You know better than anyone else here that driving fun isn't really always connected to maximum straight line performance and power only.  

Also, you own a 918, so the 720S doesn't make much sense for you. I think. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

You forgot the Spyder is slower than the performante? 

crayphile:

Joost:

If you don't mind me asking; how do you decide what you drive in the morning? I can imagine you're not keeping all cars at home but have some in storage/garage elswhere as well. And do you find yourself skipping all the fancy cars and driving into town with a simple VW golf or so because it is less of a hassle? Haha sorry, just can't really imagine how it must be like to have such a nice stable :-)

All depends what is going on. First decision is how many passengers. Hassle is never a part of the equation, but I do drive the Yaris from time to time! You are correct  - the cars are rotated as there is not enough room at home. Time of year is also a factor  - more of the convertibles at home during summer e.g Speciale Aperta here now and will swap it for the Speciale soon. Boxster Spyder will go in to hibernation soon as well. Its also fun just to plan ahead - first world problems for sure . The next three months or so are going to see some spectacular new arrivals as well - watch this space....

Thanks Cray, really appreciate taking the time to answer my nosy questions! 

Porsche, separates Le Mans from Le Boys

Whoopsy:

You forgot the Spyder is slower than the performante? 

Sure, in BC roads full of cops, it makes sense 

Rossi:

. But you've mentioned the Speciale/Speciale Aperta in one of your last posts again, what would you say, how does the Perfomante compare to what is arguably one of the greatest, if not the greatest NA-V8 from Ferrari?

No doubt in my mind Speciale is the greatest NA V8 from Maranello. Not entirely fair to compare to the Performante which is 4WD and V10  - which sounds wayyy better than the V8. As a total driving package the 458 is just that bit more involving and fun to drive. Its got that Go Kart feel to it, the back end is so predictable and it flatters a mediocre driver like me no end . It just makes you feel a much better driver than you actually are but remains safe and predictable on the road (not in the wet of course). Now that you have mentioned it, here are some gratuitous photos of it to go nicely off topic  .

WOW

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

your speciale looks (and is) fantastic!!!!!!! envy::::))))))

today i testdrove the performante (2 hours, city, highway and country roads) and reneged on the preorder. the engine is fantastic, the gearbox as well, steering feel is rather lousy and all in all i did not get the same sensations as i get in my gt3rs. the performante feels AWD (or is it the lousy steering which seems to want to help the driver too much?), engine sound: great, but why those programmed funny knuckle sounds on downshifts????? the comfort seats are less comfy than the gt3rs buckets and the interior is a wanna-be-star-wars plastic landscape. outside visibility is bad (that was clear beforehand), luggage storage room is close to zero (one small trolley plus two hermes handbags:::))). the suspension is rather good (very compliant in strada), sport seems like the gt3rs in normal mode and race (or whatever it is called) is like PDK Sport + hard suspension setting in the gt3rs. don't misunderstand me please, i do not want to diss the car, it is surely a looker and has great aero tech (plus a fantastic engine/gearbox) but i see no reason to swap it for the GT3RS. at this point i do (finally?) appreciate that porsche did a marvelous job with the RS: it just conveys more feeling (to me) although it is surely the slower car, compared to the performante. 

so my strategy will be to keep the RS and wait for the 488GTO, inspite of the turbo-charging.

Beautiful. Congrats! Whatever it is you do, you obviously do it well 

Keep feeding us the pics of the fruits.. 

2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

I absolutely adore the speciale in the meantime ☝🏻

BjoernB:

I absolutely adore the speciale in the meantime ☝🏻

Thanks . There are photos of it elsewhere on Rennteam - I think post sever change

nberry:

WOW

Piece of (car) art. Just amazing. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

just fantastic to see a Speciale in dark blue 

crayphile:

Joost:

If you don't mind me asking; how do you decide what you drive in the morning? I can imagine you're not keeping all cars at home but have some in storage/garage elswhere as well. And do you find yourself skipping all the fancy cars and driving into town with a simple VW golf or so because it is less of a hassle? Haha sorry, just can't really imagine how it must be like to have such a nice stable :-)

All depends what is going on. First decision is how many passengers. Hassle is never a part of the equation, but I do drive the Yaris from time to time! You are correct  - the cars are rotated as there is not enough room at home. Time of year is also a factor  - more of the convertibles at home during summer e.g Speciale Aperta here now and will swap it for the Speciale soon. Boxster Spyder will go in to hibernation soon as well. Its also fun just to plan ahead - first world problems for sure . The next three months or so are going to see some spectacular new arrivals as well - watch this space....

J.Seven

It's only 2 seconds quicker around a 3,6-km-long track than the Corvette Z06 Z07-Pack. LOL 

First test in AutoZeitung!
-Weight: 1557 kg
-0-100 kph: 2,78 s
-0-200 kph: 8,83 s
-100-0 kph: 31,1 m
-200-0 kph: 116,5 m
-Contidrom 3,63 km: 1:29,55 min (their own record)

And so the bullshit starts to fade :)

2.3s quicker with new compound Trofeos than a 570s on skinny old Corsas. Yeah, this car isn't doing 6:whatever on the NR in customer spec.

noone1:

And so the bullshit starts to fade :)

2.3s quicker with new compound Trofeos than a 570s on skinny old Corsas. Yeah, this car isn't doing 6:whatever on the NR in customer spec.

But yet, the vette absolutely murders the 570s everywhere else

If my math checks out right, then this thing is naturally .56 secs quicker per km than the Vette. Which means that it should be atleast 11.5secs quicker around the nurburgring than the vette--not the manual that sport auto tested.

https://youtu.be/h4xjXy9SjGs