Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment - Page1

Feb 27, 2007 11:01:07 PM

Testarossa86: Junior; Loc: SC; Posts: 58, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 8, 2006

Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Just read over on www.italiaspeed.com that Lamborghini will be launching the Gallardo Superleggera.

Why does Lamborghini continously launch these pointless versions of the Gallardo every time Ferrari launches a car? I mean really look at the facts.

Gallardo debuts with a V10 engine yet still the 430 manages to outperform it in various categories in nearly every test. They go run & make a gallardo SE with more HP & modifications.

Now that the 430LP is about to be launched some time this year & Lambo runs out & make this car. Its CLEARLY for marketing & gimmick purposes toward Ferrari's new car.

The same thing with the LP640. The 599 debuts with stunning performance & the Murci gets an upgrade a few months earlier.

Why doesn't Lamborghini just make a car & leave it alone? I mean its silly & a little embarrassing every time Ferrari gets ready to debut a car they jump & rehashed a version a car several times with gimmick options & names.

Someone told me this the only way they can sell their cars. Is this true? I'm starting to believe it.

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Feb 27, 2007 11:29:38 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: Testarossa86

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

I never noticed actually but I think you are right.

However, as Frank said "You drive a Ferrari when you want to be a somebody, you drive a Lamborghini when you are a somebody"

I am gonna order a 430 in March - I am still a nobody : )

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Feb 27, 2007 11:36:54 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

I think it helps keep F on its toes. The 430's HP was going to be a lot less at launch but due to pressure from the Gallardo they increased it. Sounds good to me

"You drive a Lameblo when you want to be a somebody(and have too many gold chains), you drive a Ferrari when you are a somebody"

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Feb 28, 2007 12:15:12 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13735, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Testarossa86

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't that always been the case with Lamborghini?

They always view their sole competitor the "other" Italian car company, Ferrari.

I suspect since Audi took over Lambo, Ferrari views Lambo a more serious competitor and they should.

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Feb 28, 2007 2:31:31 AM

krC2S: Junior; Loc: Boston,USA; Posts: 122, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 30, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

i think it's good to have more stradale like cars from all capable makers..more interesting cars and better for consumers

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Feb 28, 2007 4:40:36 AM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: krC2S

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

The Gallardo has always been an inbetweener. I can understand why the need to changes or update models, just haven't found their feet with that model yet.

I disagree with the LP640 though. The Murcielago was released 2001, it has been 6 years since and it is due for an upgrade anyway regardless of the introduction of the 599.

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Feb 28, 2007 6:40:59 AM

BjoernB: Rennteam Master; Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 4100, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 19, 2004; Reply to: Testarossa86

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

To me this is simple. There are enough enthusiasts that are craving for the latest models - specially in Asia (see mobile phones...) so within a lifecycle of a model you do it over a facelift or over upgrades eather for the track-focussed people or those who simply need the newest toys. Here there are enought guys that cannot life having a 500hp gallardo when there is a 520hp out - they simply trade-it-in which is exactly what the manufactures want....Same for Porsche. I know 2 guys already waiting for the 997S with +370hp...

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Feb 28, 2007 7:02:32 AM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Testarossa86

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

It's the everlasting battle between Ferrari and Lamborghini, that started when Ferrucio ordered a Ferrari and Enzo didn't want to give him one. Since then Lamborghini has ever tried to build a car, that is faster, more powerful and especially more exciting than its direct opponent from Ferrari. Sometimes Lamborghini succeeded, sometimes they failed. But in any case the competition is very good for us customers, since we are the one who benefit from it. Without the Gallardo the Modena successor would have had something around 460hp (well, perhaps the F430 only has that power figure in we all just don't know

). And if history repeats itself, we will always see a Lamborghini with slightly more power than its Ferrari rival, just as in case of Murciélago - 599 GTB Fiorano or Gallardo - F430.

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Feb 28, 2007 12:39:51 PM

Jeff (in SF): Pilot; Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States; Posts: 340, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: Testarossa86

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
Testarossa86 said:
Just read over on www.italiaspeed.com that Lamborghini will be launching the Gallardo Superleggera.

Why does Lamborghini continously launch these pointless versions of the Gallardo every time Ferrari launches a car? I mean really look at the facts.

Gallardo debuts with a V10 engine yet still the 430 manages to outperform it in various categories in nearly every test. They go run & make a gallardo SE with more HP & modifications.

Now that the 430LP is about to be launched some time this year & Lambo runs out & make this car. Its CLEARLY for marketing & gimmick purposes toward Ferrari's new car.

The same thing with the LP640. The 599 debuts with stunning performance & the Murci gets an upgrade a few months earlier.

Why doesn't Lamborghini just make a car & leave it alone? I mean its silly & a little embarrassing every time Ferrari gets ready to debut a car they jump & rehashed a version a car several times with gimmick options & names.

Someone told me this the only way they can sell their cars. Is this true? I'm starting to believe it.

Merely coincidence if you consider that you can't just whip up a car in a few months and launch it on the public. The engineering, testing, and government approvals guarantee this is a multiyear process so any similarities to Lambo's offerings and Fcars is simply that = a similarity. Besides, rumor has it a certain Maranello manufacturer is going to launch a V10 version of their popular entry model. Wonder where they got that idea from?

Montezemolo must lose sleep at night wondering if the guys from Audi (Lambo) set their sites on F1. Not sure what they call the LeMans series nowadays, but Audi pretty much drove all the serious competition from the sport given their consistent domination and then rubbed their noses in the dirt by winning this past year in a DIESEL. Imagine the look of horror on the faces of the Ferraristi if a diesel entered and beat a red car!

Never say it'll never happen. Given the escalating concerns over the planet and Honda's new paint scheme and charity program to benefit "Greenies" it's just a matter of time before we see hydrogen fueled cars or diesel/electrics or maybe even just a bunch of videogame booths where the drivers don't drive a real car at all. Hope I'm not alive to see that.

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Feb 28, 2007 2:00:27 PM

rosso nuvola: Pilot; Loc: Switzerland; Posts: 338, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Testarossa86

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
Testarossa86 said:
Just read over on www.italiaspeed.com that Lamborghini will be launching the Gallardo Superleggera.

Why does Lamborghini continously launch these pointless versions of the Gallardo every time Ferrari launches a car? I mean really look at the facts.

Gallardo debuts with a V10 engine yet still the 430 manages to outperform it in various categories in nearly every test. They go run & make a gallardo SE with more HP & modifications.

Now that the 430LP is about to be launched some time this year & Lambo runs out & make this car. Its CLEARLY for marketing & gimmick purposes toward Ferrari's new car.

The same thing with the LP640. The 599 debuts with stunning performance & the Murci gets an upgrade a few months earlier.

Why doesn't Lamborghini just make a car & leave it alone? I mean its silly & a little embarrassing every time Ferrari gets ready to debut a car they jump & rehashed a version a car several times with gimmick options & names.

Someone told me this the only way they can sell their cars. Is this true? I'm starting to believe it.

I agree

it has everithing to do with the marketing , VAG is just about marketing, they even ofer the Gallardo to the italian police .
If Ferrari is the reference you can only gain by pretendig to to right there with the best... and you dont even have to wait years for the Lambo....

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Feb 28, 2007 2:05:48 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: rosso nuvola

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
rosso nuvola said:
Quote:
Testarossa86 said:
Just read over on www.italiaspeed.com that Lamborghini will be launching the Gallardo Superleggera.

Why does Lamborghini continously launch these pointless versions of the Gallardo every time Ferrari launches a car? I mean really look at the facts.

Gallardo debuts with a V10 engine yet still the 430 manages to outperform it in various categories in nearly every test. They go run & make a gallardo SE with more HP & modifications.

Now that the 430LP is about to be launched some time this year & Lambo runs out & make this car. Its CLEARLY for marketing & gimmick purposes toward Ferrari's new car.

The same thing with the LP640. The 599 debuts with stunning performance & the Murci gets an upgrade a few months earlier.

Why doesn't Lamborghini just make a car & leave it alone? I mean its silly & a little embarrassing every time Ferrari gets ready to debut a car they jump & rehashed a version a car several times with gimmick options & names.

Someone told me this the only way they can sell their cars. Is this true? I'm starting to believe it.

I agree it has everithing to do with the marketing , VAG is just about marketing, they even ofer the Gallardo to the italian police .
If Ferrari is the reference you can only gain by pretendig to to right there with the best... and you dont even have to wait years for the Lambo....

You also don't have to wait for a Ferrari for several years - unless you live in the US, home of the free and the gullible.

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Feb 28, 2007 2:20:26 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

AFAIK, Lamborghini has never raced competitively in any of the FIA recognised formulas. Ferrari must have a serious case of paranoia/insecurity if they worry so much about a rival that never races.

Ferrari should remind itself of the fact that its clientele knows full well of its racing heritage and how, under the late Enzo Ferrari, the manufacturer existed to make cars so that the team could race.

Lamborghini makes amazing bedroom poster cars that don't endure the gruelling pressure of competitive racing.

BTW, AFAIK the nature of the Audi ownership of Lamborghini is quite distant. They of course financial support it and set high standards of reliability for Lamborghini to meet but the actual day to day activity at Lamborghini is semi-autonomous.

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Feb 28, 2007 2:59:40 PM

mp: Pilot; Loc: New York, USA; Posts: 361, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 4, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
AFAIK, Lamborghini has never raced competitively in any of the FIA recognised formulas. Ferrari must have a serious case of paranoia/insecurity if they worry so much about a rival that never races.

Ferrari should remind itself of the fact that its clientele knows full well of its racing heritage and how, under the late Enzo Ferrari, the manufacturer existed to make cars so that the team could race.

Lamborghini makes amazing bedroom poster cars that don't endure the gruelling pressure of competitive racing.

BTW, AFAIK the nature of the Audi ownership of Lamborghini is quite distant. They of course financial support it and set high standards of reliability for Lamborghini to meet but the actual day to day activity at Lamborghini is semi-autonomous.

First of all, IMO every company should be paranoid about their competition. In todays age of constant change, companies have to stay ahead to stay alive.

Secondly, Lambo has turned the corner, thanks to Audi. Both the LP640 and Gallardo are great cars and Ferrari should be worried! Aren't they both constantly improving their cars? Ferrari Maranello 550, 575 etc. Isn't Porsche constantly improving their products as well?

While this is frustrating for those who have missed-out on the newest model, we really should be happy to have ever improving cars from which to choose.

I've been waiting for my 997tt for about a year and by the time it arrives Porsche will probably announce a powerkit etc. So be it.

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Feb 28, 2007 3:46:23 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: mp

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

"I've been waiting for my 997tt for about a year and by the time it arrives Porsche will probably announce a powerkit etc. So be it."

There's a lot of these sitting at various dealers. Times a wasting

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Feb 28, 2007 6:40:17 PM

VGA18: Veteran; Loc: Istanbul and Tampa; Posts: 1029, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2006; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Ferrari F430 is my05 and 599 is my06.

Murcie is 5 years old and Gallardo is 3 years old. And i think Italian cars do not often have facelift like German cars. They produce some special version of the cars. Which are limited produced. If you sum all of SE and Nera and this SLeggera it wont be a total of 600-700 cars. Jhere are 4300 standart Gallardo remaining.

Why this bothered you so much?

Wasnt Ferrari produced Ferrari SuperAmerica which is based on 575M. Or 550 M improved as 575 M.

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Feb 28, 2007 10:54:09 PM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: VGA18

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

But after the SE came out all standard Gallardos were upgraded to SE specs, am I correct?

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Mar 1, 2007 6:23:08 AM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: palenimbus

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
Danny G said:
But after the SE came out all standard Gallardos were upgraded to SE specs, am I correct?

Pretty much, only difference now is the aesthetics of the SE.

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Mar 1, 2007 8:35:18 AM

VGA18: Veteran; Loc: Istanbul and Tampa; Posts: 1029, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2006; Reply to: Mike S

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

SE also has sport suspension different from regular 06. If i remember correct...

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Mar 2, 2007 1:49:41 AM

racerx: Rennteam VIP; Loc: 1985 porsche dealership , Bouvet Island; Posts: 8751, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
AFAIK, Lamborghini has never raced competitively in any of the FIA recognised formulas. Ferrari must have a serious case of paranoia/insecurity if they worry so much about a rival that never races.

Not a correction just for knowledge, Lamborghini did make an attempt at F1 back in the early 90's or so. IIRC it was the larrousse/lamborghini team and did not do much. I don't remember whether the engines were bad or the car or both.

As to all the models, I think it is a little silly and necessary to make the sale to certain clientele.

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Mar 2, 2007 10:14:13 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: racerx

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Thanks for the info. So at least we know that they made an abortive attempt at F1 involvement.

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Mar 2, 2007 2:04:04 PM

bondmid003: Pilot; Loc: La Jolla, CA , United States; Posts: 378, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 10, 2006; Reply to: VGA18

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
VGA18 said:
Ferrari F430 is my05 and 599 is my06.

Murcie is 5 years old and Gallardo is 3 years old. And i think Italian cars do not often have facelift like German cars. They produce some special version of the cars. Which are limited produced. If you sum all of SE and Nera and this SLeggera it wont be a total of 600-700 cars. Jhere are 4300 standart Gallardo remaining.

Why this bothered you so much? Wasnt Ferrari produced Ferrari SuperAmerica which is based on 575M. Or 550 M improved as 575 M.

I saw a statistic that Lamborghini has sold more Gallardos in the past few years than the entire run of Diablos

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Mar 2, 2007 2:06:51 PM

Mike S: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan; Posts: 7720, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: bondmid003

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
bondmid003 said:
Quote:
VGA18 said:
Ferrari F430 is my05 and 599 is my06.

Murcie is 5 years old and Gallardo is 3 years old. And i think Italian cars do not often have facelift like German cars. They produce some special version of the cars. Which are limited produced. If you sum all of SE and Nera and this SLeggera it wont be a total of 600-700 cars. Jhere are 4300 standart Gallardo remaining.

Why this bothered you so much? Wasnt Ferrari produced Ferrari SuperAmerica which is based on 575M. Or 550 M improved as 575 M.

I saw a statistic that Lamborghini has sold more Gallardos in the past few years than the entire run of Diablos

I think they've sold more Gallardo's than they have in total of Lamborghini's

They have sold their 2000th Murcie last MY end

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Mar 2, 2007 3:22:20 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Mike S

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

FWIW, Lamborghini became frustrated with Ferrari over bad quality and bad factory service. This was in the era when Feraris had overdrive units that shared lubrication with the rear differential, and both required a different spec lubricant, but shared a common sump, so one or the other was always going to die very quickly. That is just one example of Ferrari Hell from the early 60's.

So being a tractor and refrigerator company, Lamborghini thought he could beat Ferrari at their own game.

Here is a good interview with Lamborghinis CEO and some sales numbers. CEO LINK

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Mar 2, 2007 9:21:18 PM

VGA18: Veteran; Loc: Istanbul and Tampa; Posts: 1029, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2006; Reply to: bondmid003

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
bondmid003 said:
Quote:
VGA18 said:
Ferrari F430 is my05 and 599 is my06.

Murcie is 5 years old and Gallardo is 3 years old. And i think Italian cars do not often have facelift like German cars. They produce some special version of the cars. Which are limited produced. If you sum all of SE and Nera and this SLeggera it wont be a total of 600-700 cars. Jhere are 4300 standart Gallardo remaining.

Why this bothered you so much? Wasnt Ferrari produced Ferrari SuperAmerica which is based on 575M. Or 550 M improved as 575 M.

I saw a statistic that Lamborghini has sold more Gallardos in the past few years than the entire run of Diablos

That is true. 5000th(I remember from an article) Gallardo produced last months. But how many F430 produced since 2005?? Gallardo is a year older than F430 and still rare than F430.

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Mar 3, 2007 12:09:41 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: VGA18

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

gallardo was introduced in 2003 , with 100 horse power than its competitor the 360 modena... two years later the 430 was introduced, and the gallardo still had 10 more HP. in 2006 they increased the power by 20 hp and few other minor technical mods, nothing from the outside. just like the 550 and 575. the 599 is no competitor of the murcielago , and the murci was introduced in 2002... 599 is a front engined gt , the murci is a rear engine exotic car .
and by the way testarossa... these pointless versions like you call them , one of them is called the nera that comes in two tone black scheme...like a recently introduced ferrari scaglietti 60th anniversary...

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Mar 3, 2007 7:13:35 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

There may be no official factory team but Reiter engineering race Lambo's in the FIA GT series. See link here for Reiter Engineering

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Mar 4, 2007 12:54:08 AM

Testarossa86: Junior; Loc: SC; Posts: 58, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 8, 2006; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
dhayek said:
gallardo was introduced in 2003 , with 100 horse power than its competitor the 360 modena... two years later the 430 was introduced, and the gallardo still had 10 more HP. in 2006 they increased the power by 20 hp and few other minor technical mods, nothing from the outside. just like the 550 and 575. the 599 is no competitor of the murcielago , and the murci was introduced in 2002... 599 is a front engined gt , the murci is a rear engine exotic car .
and by the way testarossa... these pointless versions like you call them , one of them is called the nera that comes in two tone black scheme...like a recently introduced ferrari scaglietti 60th anniversary...

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms, but I swear it appears to me that Lambo has a planned marketing strategy centered around what Ferrari does.

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Mar 4, 2007 9:25:37 PM

koko: Rennteam Pro; Loc: UAE , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 2753, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2004; Reply to: dhayek

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
dhayek said:
g
and by the way testarossa... these pointless versions like you call them , one of them is called the nera that comes in two tone black scheme...like a recently introduced ferrari scaglietti 60th anniversary...

I saw the Nera in the flesh,and i was blown away!!!! What an amazing car! LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Mar 6, 2007 1:07:55 PM

boytronic: Veteran; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 961, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2005; Reply to: koko

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Quote:
koko said:
Quote:
dhayek said:
g
and by the way testarossa... these pointless versions like you call them , one of them is called the nera that comes in two tone black scheme...like a recently introduced ferrari scaglietti 60th anniversary...

I saw the Nera in the flesh,and i was blown away!!!! What an amazing car! LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lambo is making fantastic cars and each version is an improvement over its predecessor - marketing is just that and every car company has to do it in order to make money.

Don't worry too much about it Testarossa - chill out and enjoy these cars cos they are all great, Ferrari, Lambo, and Porsche!

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Mar 6, 2007 2:17:19 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: boytronic

Re: Serious question about Lambo for a moment

Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche: the holy trinity in the car world?

I think what they share in common by far outweighs what differentiates them even though their respective owners love squabbling endlessly about their individual virtues/weaknesses!

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