Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil. - Page1

Feb 13, 2007 9:17:25 AM

Samy: Junior; Loc: Bucharest; Posts: 67, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2006

Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Hy guys,i just did my first 2250 km and my oil reader showed only one full cube from the 3. I checked it last night with the engine oil an 90 degreese celsius and i showed only one box full. I checked it again this morning with the engine cold also one box full. So i added 600 ml of oil. Checked the metter and it showed all 3 cubes full. After that i turned on the engine let the oil warm up at 90 celsius and after that the oil showed all 3 full but ALSO the upper line full. What should i do? Is it to much now? Please help.

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Feb 13, 2007 10:04:54 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Samy

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Samy, the owner's manual says not to fill up more than 500ml at one time. One cube is 400ml anyway. So why fill 600ml???

Couldn't you fill up by 200ml and see if it's okay? Then, if you need more, you can always add another 200ml.

It's like adding salt to food. You can always add a bit more.

But if you added too much, it can be inconvenient to correct it.

You asked about engine break-in earlier saying is it okay if I redlined it during break in?

Of course, ask whatever questions you wish and people here will gladly help but please do remember, it really does help to read the manual carefully and to follow its advice.

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Feb 13, 2007 10:14:03 AM

Samy: Junior; Loc: Bucharest; Posts: 67, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Thank a lot. I read the owners manual and filled 200ml at a time. I added 200 and nothing hapend,still 2 boxes empty after that added again 200 ml and still ONE box empty and then another 200ml and all 3 boxes got full so i didn;t add more. The proiblem ocured after i started the engine let it warm up the oil and checked again. I read the owners manual just before adding oil. Please read carefully my first question. If there are 2 boxes empty that means 800ml,and i added just 600ml but with 200ml at a time.

I asked about a full throtle during brak in wondering if it is very bad for the engine. I don't mean to be stupid with my questions,i check the manual first but the experience from others is much better. Thanks a lot anyway.

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Feb 13, 2007 10:26:57 AM

function_analysi: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Athens , Greece; Posts: 352, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Easy_Rider911, I've been thoroughly perusing TFM both the pdf and hardcopy version, but this is the first time I understand that it is recommended not to fill up more than 500 ml at one time. Just out of curiosity, may I ask you which page exactly reads this thing?

On another note, while TFM reads on page 96 that engine oil pressure at about 5000 rpm should be 3.5 bar (engine warmed-up, definitely) my dial indicates more or less 5.0 bars all of the times.

Is this the same for your engine?

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Feb 13, 2007 10:35:03 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Samy

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

IMO there's a simple mistake which you have made my friend. You had only 1 square left out of 3 squares. The manual says each square is 400ml so you calculated that this means 800ml needed. This MAY be right but is NOT NECESSARILY right.

If 2 squares are finished, you know 100% FOR SURE that at least 400ml is finished AND that PART of the next 400ml is finished too.

So, to be safe, I interpret 2 squares to mean 400ml<x<800ml. Hope that makes sense...

So, you added 200ml and nothing happened. Exactly. Since, with 2 squares gone, AT LEAST 400ml was needed. You added another 200ml and one more square appeared, making 400ml added so far (i.e. 1 square filled) leaving 1 square left. Now this final square was not a full 400ml square, just a partial square of 0ml<y<200ml. You filled 200ml more so, when cold, all 3 squares appeared as full. When hot, the oil expanded beyond full, so it would have been safer if you added, 200ml+200ml+100ml. You have overfilled by maybe around 100ml.

I think this excess oil (only about 100ml) will be used up within the next 400-600km.

Sorry, I don't know if having the excess 100ml of oil is harmful to your engine. All I can do is explain how to interpret the electronic oil measurement a bit better so that you don't overfill next time.

I wish the manual explained this better

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Feb 13, 2007 10:41:03 AM

Samy: Junior; Loc: Bucharest; Posts: 67, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Sadly the manual is not that good. Youre advice is better,easyer to understand. I went donw and checked the oil again and it was good. I don't know,i think you are right it should be about 100ml more. I didn't know this because this is the first time i add oil. So when is the right time to chek the oil cold or hot? The manual says cold but look what happend to me checking cold. Thanks a lot,easy rider.

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Feb 13, 2007 11:20:00 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: function_analysi

Re: max engine oil to be added at one time

Quote:
function_analysis said:
Easy_Rider911, I've been thoroughly perusing TFM both the pdf and hardcopy version, but this is the first time I understand that it is recommended not to fill up more than 500 ml at one time. Just out of curiosity, may I ask you which page exactly reads this thing?

On another note, while TFM reads on page 96 that engine oil pressure at about 5000 rpm should be 3.5 bar (engine warmed-up, definitely) my dial indicates more or less 5.0 bars all of the times.

Is this the same for your engine?

Thanks for your post!

Q1) Please read pg 202 of the 2006 US Carrera Owner's Manual. On the right hand column of text, item 4:

"4. Add at most 0,5 quarts (0,5 liter) of engine oil at a time."

Hope that helps!

Q2) Excellent question! I was puzzled too when I first read this paragraph in the owner's manual!!

My experience is that if the engine is warmed up nicely [i.e. coolant temperature is 'normal' (i.e. about 80C/175F) and the engine oil is warmed enough (i.e. at least 90C/200F)], then, (1) when the engine is idling, the engine oil pressure is about 3.5 and (2) when the engine is revving at about 4000rpm, the engine oil pressure is 5.

Unfortunately, I don't have any idea at all why this is the case.

In my father's Mercedes, his oil pressure goes up to the maximum (3) whenever the accelerator pedal is pressed so my Porsche is doing basically the same thing i.e. going up to maximum when the accelerator is pressed.

I thought about it and decided it is normal so I decided not to worry about it.

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Feb 13, 2007 11:27:05 AM

Samy: Junior; Loc: Bucharest; Posts: 67, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: max engine oil to be added at one time

So finnaly what shoul i do? Drain some oil ore leave it so? Also how i asked earlyer,when shoul the oil be checked from expirience? Cold or hot? Hot the oil is at max but cold it's normal!

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Feb 13, 2007 11:39:08 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Samy

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

You're welcome Samy. Glad I could help.

When to check the oil level? It's up to you.

If you check it cold, it is much more convenient. You usually only need to wait 6 seconds to get an engine oil reading. If the engine is warm (e.g. while you are at the petrol station etc), it can even take 5-10 minutes! Not convenient at all to just sit there.

Also, if the engine has been used, some oil is still in the system. It needs time to trickle down to the place where the oil level is measured. So the car estimates this figure instead.

However, if the engine is totally cold, it knows it doesn't need to estimate this figure. The actual reading is fine.

So, for the reasons of convenience and accuracy, I prefer to take a reading in the morning when the engine is completely cold.

NB: v important point: just make sure the ground is 100% flat so the reading is accurate. I checked the ground in my car park at home using a "builder's spirit level". I would suggest you do the same.

NB: also, remember, don't worry too much about the engine oil figure being full all the time. It just isn't necessary. Remember that the 3 squares are the top 1.2L out of the total engine oil which, according to pg 291 of the US Carrera Owner's Manual, is approximately 8-8.5 litres.

So, we are only talking about the top part of the engine oil. Nothing to worry about. It doesn't matter if you have only 1 square left. Just top it up a little bit (e.g. about 200ml or 400ml) so that you have 2 squares left. Don't worry about the final square if you are worried you may overfill it. Do make sure however that you don't have no squares left.

All I am saying is that the bigger picture is that this is only the top 1.2L out of 8-8.5L.

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Feb 13, 2007 12:01:54 PM

function_analysi: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Athens , Greece; Posts: 352, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: max engine oil to be added at one time

Great thx! I'm almost doing the same thing as regards the pressure gauge: being indifferent to the reading of the needle, unless I notice sth quite unusual.

Hopefully nothing has been noticed so far

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Feb 13, 2007 12:14:38 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Samy

Re: excess engine oil

Quote:
Samy said:
So finnaly what shoul i do? Drain some oil ore leave it so?

Like I said before :

"I think this excess oil (only about 100ml) will be used up within the next 400-600km.

Sorry, I don't know if having the excess 100ml of oil is harmful to your engine. "

Sorry - I don't know if you should drain some off or if it's safe to leave it like that until some of it gets used up. You should ask your dealer what to do.

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Feb 13, 2007 12:40:52 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14191, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: excess engine oil

I did that once, but had more like 200 ml too much and I drained the oil.
In your case it seems very little too much but I can't also say if it is harmfull or not. The problem is that with too much oil there is too much pression and that could damage the joints.
If you drain it, don't forget to let the oil cool down or you will have aburned hand of course

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Feb 13, 2007 1:34:12 PM

Samy: Junior; Loc: Bucharest; Posts: 67, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 20, 2006; Reply to: Gnil

Re: excess engine oil

I don't know what to say because as you said when the engine is hot the computer estimates the oil so it says i have to much. When the engine is cold the computer shows the actual amount of oil witch in my case only the 3 cubes full witch is ok. I wil leave it so because it seems ok if when cold the level is ok. Maybe the computer estimates a little to much thats why it appears as to much only when the engine is hot. I checked the oil can an and i have about 430ml left witch shows me that i didn't even put 600ml. I will drive it for a while and check it again. Thanks guys.

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Feb 13, 2007 4:16:51 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Samy

solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Only kidding. But you do need to pay extreme atention.

Get a short sleeve shirt and gloves on

Put a pan under drain plug

With a wrench loosen drain plug

With your fingers start loosening drain plug

NOW READ THIS: you are paying strict attention, you are feeling, looking, yearning, longing, for the tiny little "click" that means the end of the plug thread has hit the end of the drain hole thread. INORDER TO FEEL THIS: you must keep upward pressure on the plug as you loosen the plug.

***Listen OR feel for click by keeping upward pressure on plug***

Keep UPWARD PRESSURE ON THE PLUG

When you get to the "click" just tilt back the plug away from the hole about the width of a human hair.

Oil will dribble out; let an estimated amount leak out. If you do this wrong oil will explode out and you'll get a bath.

REPEAT: keep pressue on the plug, do not let it unseat from the drain hole.

NOTE: sounds drastic but ONLY if you loose control of the plug. The only way to lose control of the plug is to stop paying attention. ANYBODY can do this if they pay attention.

Rescrew and tighten plug.

Add/Check oil to proper level.

Check plug after a few days and a every few weeks for a while, because you necessarily reused the copper crush washer and the plug will have a greater though small chance of loosening.

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Feb 13, 2007 4:21:33 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

According to the "2005 Technik Introduction" the "dipstick" does two things. It estimates the amount of oil when engine is hot. It actually measures the amount of oil when cold. That's why there's a discrepancy.

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Feb 13, 2007 4:50:29 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Like I said: "It's like adding salt to food. You can always add a bit more. But if you added too much, it can be inconvenient to correct it".

Why risk overfilling? It's a PITA to deal with...gentle increments when filling are best

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Feb 13, 2007 5:08:14 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Like I said: "It's like adding salt to food. You can always add a bit more. But if you added too much, it can be inconvenient to correct it".

Why risk overfilling? It's a PITA to deal with...gentle increments when filling are best

Exactly!

I wait for _two_ boxes to appear empty and then add 600-800 ml. Works for me (incline of driveway).

Easy to drain it a little (see above). You feel suuuuch a sense of accomplishment when you avoid the dreaded oil bath. (no kidding).

I would NOT drive the car if there's too much oil in it. The consensus is it CAN cause damage; I wish I could remember what that damage is exactly.

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Feb 13, 2007 5:36:52 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

You've got me worried now.

I had my first service done at 16,000 miles. When the Dealer returned it the oil level was right at the top of the scale (over the top). They assured me that they had added the correct amount when the oil and filter was changed.

I've now done over 4,000 miles since the service and the level has never changed - i.e. right at the top, over the full mark. The only time it shows below is if I check it on an uphill slope.

I haven't noticed any problems - no excessive smoke on start-up etc. and the car is running better than ever - so what does everyone think?

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Feb 13, 2007 6:22:18 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: John H

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Quote:
John H said:
You've got me worried now.

- so what does everyone think?

I'd get some oil out of there.

If you don't feel comfortable doing it:

Make the friggin'dealer do it. MoFos should read the friggin' manual!

here's what the manual sez:

says it again on page 201 (MY 2006 manual)

What pisses me off is the dealer probably has no idea of how much excess oil is in there. Is it a little or a lot? They're probably guessing it's a little. Nevertheless they **violated** the warning in the manual, not very "Excellent.". Eediots.

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Feb 13, 2007 6:31:30 PM

Popolou: Co-Pilot; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 161, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

IIRC, too much oil causes the oil level to rise and travel up through the breather pipes. Very very bad scenario....

Regards

Popolou

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Feb 13, 2007 6:49:44 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: Popolou

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

I watch oil levels over several days. Once it gets CONSISTENTLY way down at the bottom I add a half quart/litre. Otherwise, don't be tempted.

Dan

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Feb 13, 2007 7:01:36 PM

jerrygee: Junior; Loc: Julian, CA; Posts: 95, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 2, 2006; Reply to: Samy

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

I seriously doubt that you have over-filled your crankcase oil level by much if any. The system holds a total of 9 liters (9,000 milliliters) and you have possibly over-filled it by 200 milliliters, or about 2% of total volume.

The main issues of overfilling is if the oil level is too high the crankshaft will spin into the oil and cause it to foam and if the oil level is too high it may block oil draining back to the crankcase from the top end. The amount you have possibly overfilled, I wouldn't worry about it.

I personally don't think the answer is to loosen the drain plug to drain a few hundred milliliters (2.2% of total volume) of oil being as that drain plug is sealed by an aluminum crush washer that is a one time use item. That crush washer is to be replaced each time the drain plug is torqued to its service torque of 50 Nm.

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Feb 13, 2007 7:12:05 PM

uzj100: Co-Pilot; Loc: California, USA; Posts: 169, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2005; Reply to: jerrygee

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

This has been covered in a lot of threads. Another point to keep in mind-the oil level bars have a +/- range. IOW the TRUE amount of oil in the crank case can be + or - half the reading. It's not uncommon to read the level at the proper level for several times, have it show a bar low another time, then back to the full level again.

I prefer adding oil in 2-4 oz increments and re-reading the guage. As mine isn't driven daily, I check after I add, then again a couple of days later. So far no over fills. MMD's fix will help you, also you can undo the filter cannister and drain what's in there.

And as jerrygee says, the drain plug washer should be replaced each time the plug is loosened or removed. Those are good items to have extras of for just that reason. The drain plugs are pretty cheap as well and it never hurts to have an extra one of those as well (Ask me how I know!)

HTH

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Feb 13, 2007 8:42:05 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: uzj100

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Quote:
uzj100 said:

And as jerrygee says, the drain plug washer should be replaced each time the plug is loosened or removed.

You guys are right but I think it's okay to mess with them once.

With copper you _can_ reuse them if you heat them 'til red hot and let them cool normally. They do this, reputably, in the marine trade when rebuilding or servicing diesel engines. Not sure about aluminum.

I'm not sure of the metalurgy involved but it's probably not changing the molecular structure or physical properties very much by crushing the washer (aluminum or copper), then loosening and then crushing again.

Don't really know, would definitely change washers for new (but would not be afraid to re-use once in this case). Just make sure you recheck your torque in a few days and a few weeks. If it stays the same you're ok.

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Feb 13, 2007 10:06:13 PM

Haku: Pilot; Loc: TN , United States; Posts: 481, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 6, 2005; Reply to: Samy

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Samy, I did the same thing a couple of months back... I was one bar over and after driving for about 10 miles it all went back to normal.

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...true#Post301183

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Feb 13, 2007 10:12:03 PM

uzj100: Co-Pilot; Loc: California, USA; Posts: 169, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2005; Reply to: Haku

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

As the washers are flat, rather than "crimped" I'm not sure why they call them a crush washer. I think of a crush washer in terms of those on spark plugs.

Anyway, they're aluminum I believe, and they're so cheap that it's really simple to replace them any time the drain plug is loosened.

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Feb 15, 2007 5:55:06 PM

percymon: Senior; Loc: Chester; Posts: 765, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 23, 2005; Reply to: John H

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Quote:
John H said:
You've got me worried now.

I had my first service done at 16,000 miles. When the Dealer returned it the oil level was right at the top of the scale (over the top). They assured me that they had added the correct amount when the oil and filter was changed.

I've now done over 4,000 miles since the service and the level has never changed - i.e. right at the top, over the full mark. The only time it shows below is if I check it on an uphill slope.

I haven't noticed any problems - no excessive smoke on start-up etc. and the car is running better than ever - so what does everyone think?

I suspect the OPC has just added a set amount of oil, based on the capacity including the filter - not all the old oil drained out, so you are overfilled as a result.

Advice for trackdays is not to be more than 3/4 of dipstick, lateral forces are obviously higher on track, but worthy of note is you enjoy the car on road too.

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Feb 15, 2007 6:14:39 PM

SonOfStig: Pilot; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 387, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: function_analysi

Re: max engine oil to be added at one time

I just overfilled too. Added 500ml to the engine which was on last bar (1 out of 4 empty). Now says all 4 full. I don't think this is an issue for all the reasons laid out, so I'm not too bothered - engine runs fine - oil pressure looks good, no smoke (although I don't tend to look in the mirror when I'm hoofing it, so I may have missed that).

Like Easy's explanation - good one, mate.

Should I be worried do you think?

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Feb 15, 2007 6:38:48 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: SonOfStig

Re: max engine oil to be added at one time

Quote:
SonOfStig said:

Should I be worried do you think?

Yes, read the owner's manual. The word "never" is unambiguous.

It's like the human mind changes the meaning of the word "never" when it's own car is overfilled and it's too inconvenient to drain the necessary amount so the engine has the correct amount of oil?!!

Gesus!

Good luck with the chances you are taking.

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Feb 15, 2007 6:58:14 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: John H

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Quote:
John H said:
You've got me worried now.

I had my first service done at 16,000 miles. When the Dealer returned it the oil level was right at the top of the scale (over the top). They assured me that they had added the correct amount when the oil and filter was changed.

I've now done over 4,000 miles since the service and the level has never changed - i.e. right at the top, over the full mark. The only time it shows below is if I check it on an uphill slope.

I haven't noticed any problems - no excessive smoke on start-up etc. and the car is running better than ever - so what does everyone think?

They did exactly the same thing to me at 15k
On debating the issue, I was assured it was OK.
Apparently it's quite hard to get it spot on.

Yeah, right. But anyway, I left it, the level went down after a while, no ill effects at 28k... (Famous last words!)
I think you'll probably be OK to leave it.

Incidentally, I've only ever topped up about 6-700cc in the first few k miles, and then I only topped up to be one bar below. (I figured it was easier to keep it 2/3 full than completely full) Haven't needed any more since.

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Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

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solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

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Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Re: Urgent!!! Overfilled with oil.

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

Re: max engine oil to be added at one time

Re: max engine oil to be added at one time

Re: solve this problem if you have nerves of steel

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