Crown

noone1:

MKSGR:

Whoopsy:

Here is something telling about electric cars.

During the unveiling of the new Phantom VIII, Rolls Royce's chief Torsten Muller-Otvos said his brand will go electric in the next decade, as the current technology simply is inadequate. The charging needs to be an effortless situation as the wealthy clientele isn't in the mood to spend more than couple of minutes topping up batteries. 

Makes sense. It's the time cost that matters. For the average people making perhaps $20-$30 per hour, a 40 mins charing session is only costing them less than $30. For the better off, that 40 mins wait translates to hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Electric car charing needed to match gasoline cars' average stopover time in a gas station, which is 5 mins or less from empty to full, and that's the time acceptable to everyone. 

The Tesla's 400V system is doomed, 800V is the future, at that higher voltage is where quick charging can occurs. 

 

During my last longer trip I watched two Teslas charging their battery while I was fueling up. One Tesla was empty, the other driver sat in his car and it looked like he was waiting forever... I just cannot imagine how this should be attractive to buyers  Not talking of the car itself which I never drove but from the passenger seat (taxi) it felt very average. More like a 3-series than like a 100k Euro car to say the least...

What's the problem? They're probably on vacation/road trip. In reality, you waste more time at gas stations than they do being that their car is charge every time they wake up in the morning?

They probably wonder why you like having to get gas when it's -20C outside or leave the house early so you have time to get gas because you were super tired last night and didn't feel like stopping.

There are more upsides to electric than there are downsides, and there are plenty of downside to using petrol.

^ that's so true. if you car use is to drive every day to the train station to take the commuter train or drive to work and back or to the mall/super market electric will save you time as every morning the car will be fully charged for the day...of course the i3 can do that nicely no need for a tesla.

Mithras:

Jeez, has no one heard of MB-TEX? Unless you are getting nappa leather in your mercedes chances are it's fake leather. It shows you how good it is that most people would testify under oath that it's leather...

MB-Tex is the biggest rubbish ever, too. I call it Taxi-Seats! Actually, today they call it "Leather Artico". I think it is fraught calling it leather at all. It is the same like calling Tofu a "Steak of the Tofu-Animal". 

Same problem with the Mercedes - you are sweating like hell on this artificial rubber. Everytime I take a taxi from a meeting to the airport I kind of hate it, as even after a 5 minutes ride you need a fresh shirt (yes - I hate to sweat!). 

I never liked the plastic leatherette, I think it is fraud too. In the US it comes as standard instead of clothe seats so sad. 

Lars997:

Mithras:

Jeez, has no one heard of MB-TEX? Unless you are getting nappa leather in your mercedes chances are it's fake leather. It shows you how good it is that most people would testify under oath that it's leather...

MB-Tex is the biggest rubbish ever, too. I call it Taxi-Seats! Actually, today they call it "Leather Artico". I think it is fraught calling it leather at all. It is the same like calling Tofu a "Steak of the Tofu-Animal". 

Same problem with the Mercedes - you are sweating like hell on this artificial rubber. Everytime I take a taxi from a meeting to the airport I kind of hate it, as even after a 5 minutes ride you need a fresh shirt (yes - I hate to sweat!). 

Our ML has it (I think it's nearly $7k for the nappa leather as an upgrade and you don't see many with it). Honestly I don't know how you get sweaty on it unless you're in Mumbai with no AC (and there leather would be no different). I would take it over crappy corrected grain leather in a North American car any day and the fact of the matter is that most leather in cars either have a man-made backing and/or have a PU coating which makes it vinyl coated leather anyways...

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

Lars997:

Mithras:

Jeez, has no one heard of MB-TEX? Unless you are getting nappa leather in your mercedes chances are it's fake leather. It shows you how good it is that most people would testify under oath that it's leather...

MB-Tex is the biggest rubbish ever, too. I call it Taxi-Seats! Actually, today they call it "Leather Artico". I think it is fraught calling it leather at all. It is the same like calling Tofu a "Steak of the Tofu-Animal". 

Same problem with the Mercedes - you are sweating like hell on this artificial rubber. Everytime I take a taxi from a meeting to the airport I kind of hate it, as even after a 5 minutes ride you need a fresh shirt (yes - I hate to sweat!). 

Fuylly agree. I also hate those taxi-seats made of vinyl and the old Tesla seats were not any good either (often seen in pre-facelift Model S). But the topic in this thread was not about taxi-seats, old Tesla seats or MB-TEX. The material used in the new Teslas (Ultrafabric) is something completely different. Actually less tendency to sweat on those seats than in any full leather Porsche and both looks and feels as good as full leather if not even better....

Aren't all luxury cars ordered with ventilated seats now?

lukestern:

Lars997:

Mithras:

Jeez, has no one heard of MB-TEX? Unless you are getting nappa leather in your mercedes chances are it's fake leather. It shows you how good it is that most people would testify under oath that it's leather...

MB-Tex is the biggest rubbish ever, too. I call it Taxi-Seats! Actually, today they call it "Leather Artico". I think it is fraught calling it leather at all. It is the same like calling Tofu a "Steak of the Tofu-Animal". 

Same problem with the Mercedes - you are sweating like hell on this artificial rubber. Everytime I take a taxi from a meeting to the airport I kind of hate it, as even after a 5 minutes ride you need a fresh shirt (yes - I hate to sweat!). 

Fuylly agree. I also hate those taxi-seats made of vinyl and the old Tesla seats were not any good either (often seen in pre-facelift Model S). But the topic in this thread was not about taxi-seats, old Tesla seats or MB-TEX. The material used in the new Teslas (Ultrafabric) is something completely different. Actually less tendency to sweat on those seats than in any full leather Porsche and both looks and feels as good as full leather if not even better....

That actually might be 100% correct.

In both Audis I was driving I said I wouldnt buy that car with those seats. The R8 and the RS7 been equipped with the Nappa. Both cars I always left with a wet shirt (I know... better than wet pants ). And on top of it, that R8 has a engine ventilation right next to the driver seat. That seat is like always heated. They dont even offer seat ventilation - what a joke in 200k sports car.

Apparently I'm not the only one saying that:  http://www.r8talk.com/forums/5-general-discussion/7848-spyder-leather-seats-temperature.html

https://www.motor1.com/news/175358/audi-cutting-costs-ev-offensive/

http://insideevs.com/do-tesla-batteries-last-forever/

Interesting article on the battery life of EV's

It is really expensive to be short Tesla stock today... 

I agree, the R8 Spyder needs ventilated seats but believe it or not, the Coupe doesn't. When it is hot outside, I drive with both windows open and the air circulates so strongly through the car that I sometimes get chills (at over 30 deg C). Even when driving on the Autobahn with the windows closed, the A/C works well. Never had issues with the heat generated from the engine, I do not feel a bit of engine heat inside the car. 

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

I agree, the R8 Spyder needs ventilated seats but believe it or not, the Coupe doesn't. When it is hot outside, I drive with both windows open and the air circulates so strongly through the car that I sometimes get chills (at over 30 deg C). Even when driving on the Autobahn with the windows closed, the A/C works well. Never had issues with the heat generated from the engine, I do not feel a bit of engine heat inside the car. 

After been driving those two Audi's I think that they apply a certain coating which lets you sweat like crazy. The seat is so warm, like no other I ever was driving before. The big joke - you can't even order ventilated seats - except you are changing from RS to "Standard" Seats. I don't understand Audi's politic here. In my eyes, one of the most important features in a car.

Nevertheless - the R8 Coupe is for sure much better than the Spyder. In the Spyder you are sitting right in front of that engine. And the engine bay ventilation is right next to you. So you basically have a permanent heater running. I was checking everywhere to switch that ventilation off, but no chance. It is a feature and belongs into this car 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-tesla-diess-idUSKBN1AK261

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-100d-range-record/

Over 1000km's on a single charge...

rhino:

Over 1000km's on a single charge...

Yeah...it took 29 hours. 

I did Munich to Bucharest twice, took me 16 hours and 17 hours (I admit not always respecting the speed limit in Hungary and Romania but it was during a time where police was easy to bribe ). Over 1600 km...incl. fueling up and some minor resting.

Sorry, not impressed.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

rhino:

Over 1000km's on a single charge...

Yeah...it took 29 hours. 

I did Munich to Bucharest twice, took me 16 hours and 17 hours (I admit not always respecting the speed limit in Hungary and Romania but it was during a time where police was easy to bribe ). Over 1600 km...incl. fueling up and some minor resting.

Sorry, not impressed.

What a stupid test. 1000km one filling in 29 hours. This is so far from real life!

Hey - did you ever been overtaken from a Tesla? I mean seriously - did you ever see a Tesla driving fast? I drive weekly 1000km on the German highway but never ever a Tesla was passing by on high speed. They always are on the right lane with 100 or max 120km/h.  Doesn't that tell the entire story of the 770HP monster? 

As if this test was supposed to show top speed for 1000km. you guys are ridiculous.

Lars and RC name any of your cars that can beat the Tesla in a drag race??? Lol

Sure 0-100 is meaningless blah blah blah...

Why does every car magazine test that I have ever read include it then? Must be for the American readers

rhino:

As if this test was supposed to show top speed for 1000km. you guys are ridiculous.

Lars and RC name any of your cars that can beat the Tesla in a drag race??? Lol

Sure 0-100 is meaningless blah blah blah...

 

Why does every car magazine test that I have ever read include it then? Must be for the American readers

I've been testing the Tesla and I admit - I would have bought one. A silly thing like not being able to fold the second seat row was stopping me from buying it. The car is impressive. The acceleration is great - well, as you say, on a single drag. The second time most of our cars will be faster and after a third time even my 1957 Porsche Speedster might catch up  

Nevertheless - great car, but in the end not usable for a frequent long distance driving. Certainly it goes but if you do it every single week 4 times it is the wrong car (I explained my Hybrid re-fill experience many times on RT). If you commute daily to work, if you go lets say every months once on long distance - hell yeah, get the car and enjoy your long distance trips with 120km/h on the right lane of the Autobahn. Not to forget - eat a lot of Mc-Donalds food as you will be now more often a guest while your car is filling up outside at the power charger! But as you said - that must be for the American readers 

Let's talk about really unimpressive; my friend just bought a Cayenne S Hybrid. He told me it can go 17 miles on "pure Electric" 

That crap of a product is completely unacceptable from a manufacturer like VW. I would fire the genius behind that product.

rhino:

 

Let's talk about really unimpressive; my friend just bought a Cayenne S Hybrid. He told me it can go 17 miles on "pure Electric" 

 

That crap of a product is completely unacceptable from a manufacturer like VW. I would fire the genius behind that product.

I agree, too! Same with the C-Class Hybrid. Had it as a loaner - max. 18km I got .

My Volvo gives me 48km on the paper, realistically 42km. It is just enough for daily commutes and going inside and outside the city. Nevertheless - on the highway you dont feel it. The car is smooth and sound and gives you the electric push when accelerating but when it rolls it goes on a low range 8th gear and comforts your towards your destination. 

It simply shows - technology is not there yet.Too early to buy a purely electric car.  

I agree. I think it's still too early, especially in Europe. Owning a Tesla in the states makes more and more sense each day. 

rhino:

I agree. I think it's still too early, especially in Europe. Owning a Tesla in the states makes more and more sense each day. 

In the US, the Tesla makes much more sense than in Europe and even much much more than in Germany.

I wonder however why it needs to look that ugly (Tesla X) or boring (Tesla S)?  I like the design of the Tesla S but it just lacks a certain dynamic and freshness. Timeless? Maybe. Boring? Definitely. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

rhino:

As if this test was supposed to show top speed for 1000km. you guys are ridiculous.

What was it supposed to show? How friggin long someone needs for 1000 km? 

Lars and RC name any of your cars that can beat the Tesla in a drag race??? Lol

Yeah, do it twice or three times and you're done in a Tesla.  I can do this all day long and don't even take a sweat (R8). Also, at over 100 kph, bye bye Tesla... Lars is right, I have never seen or met a Tesla doing more than 150 kph on the Autobahn, weird.

Sure 0-100 is meaningless blah blah blah...

Not meaningless...if you can do it repeatedly. 

 

Why does every car magazine test that I have ever read include it then? Must be for the American readers

This is probably the only thing Americans get to do...drag races from red lights.   

Just kidding but I get it why Tesla is so popular in the US.

--

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

There's a lot of truth in each of your responses but Tesla will continue improving in each of those categories. Meanwhile,  the rest of the industry tries to chase their own tales.

rhino:

There's a lot of truth in each of your responses but Tesla will continue improving in each of those categories. Meanwhile,  the rest of the industry tries to chase their own tales.

I think Tesla will have a very bad awakening at some point in the future...when major car manufacturers get serious about ELVs. So far, you haven't seen much but it will change and it already changed with that emissions scandal (which in my opinion will be seen as Tesla's downfall later on because it basically forced manufacturers like VW Group to switch to ELVs). Without the emissions scandal, Tesla would flourish over the next couple of years without being bothered but this has changed now, just wait and see (and yes, I know how this sounds).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

rhino:

As if this test was supposed to show top speed for 1000km. you guys are ridiculous.

Lars and RC name any of your cars that can beat the Tesla in a drag race??? Lol

Sure 0-100 is meaningless blah blah blah...

 

Why does every car magazine test that I have ever read include it then? Must be for the American readers

I can, my 918  From 0 to any speed you pick. Actually my incoming Turbo S Exclusive will also tops a Tesla from  0 to any speed. 

The 918 will eat 3 litres of fuel per lap at my track, which is 3 miles long and takes me 2 mins and 17 seconds and hit a top speed of 260km/hr. Can a Tesla do that?

We have members that have Tesla but they wouldn't dare to bring the golf cart to the track and run, so I took the 918 out and set a electric car lap record, at 2 min 44 seconds. It has enough charge for one out lap, one hot lap and 1/3 of a in lap. 

Just for kicks, I took my Cayenne Turbo S hot lapping too and got a SUV lap record of 2 min 39 seconds without trying much, I think I can knock about 3 seconds off if I REALLY tried.

Thanks Nick - great answer! 

Hey - no one talked about the most emotional part of doing accelerations with a "real" car? - Its the sound - Mama mia, the sound makes us men going and not the fuel economic! 

Lars997:

rhino:

As if this test was supposed to show top speed for 1000km. you guys are ridiculous.

Lars and RC name any of your cars that can beat the Tesla in a drag race??? Lol

Sure 0-100 is meaningless blah blah blah...

 

Why does every car magazine test that I have ever read include it then? Must be for the American readers

I've been testing the Tesla and I admit - I would have bought one. A silly thing like not being able to fold the second seat row was stopping me from buying it. The car is impressive. The acceleration is great - well, as you say, on a single drag. The second time most of our cars will be faster and after a third time even my 1957 Porsche Speedster might catch up  

That has been changed on the new Model Xs. The seats fold flat now.

Interesting read

http://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/13058/the-model-3-is-further-proof-of-teslas-asymmetric-war-against-the-auto-industry