Crown

Board: Porsche - 911 - 997 Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Jan 15, 2007 4:30:38 PM

    Le Chef
    Veteran
    Le Chef
    Loc: Chicago , United States
    Posts: 1059, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 3, 2003

    998: Evolution or Revolution?

    We're probably a way off seeing this car and this post is not about due dates, but about something a little more conceptual.

    If 998 will face a market with more competition on performance/$ then how should Porsche compete? If you were advising Weideking and Mauer on the 998, what should be "Evolved" and what should be "Revolutionized" about the car? Which cars should it compete with? What price should it sell at?

    Any suggestions/ideas as to what you would advise?

    Jan 15, 2007 5:59:37 PM

    MMD
    Rennteam VIP
    MMD
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 9652, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
    Reply to: Le Chef

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    I'd say come up with a new set of "kick a**" slogans. I say KA sarcastically.

    "Excellence" and "There is no Substitute" are getting harder and harder to believe. They reflect the ethos of the original Porsche company. Form following function, exactly what you need for elite sports car driving, nothing more nothing less ("do you have any Grey Poupon?"), time-honored design principles of least complexity, maximum efficiency, high performance; high ideals all.

    IOW, To "survive" (meaning: maximize profits) Porsche will get more competitive in trying to mass market the car meaning it will try more and more to draw in the casual buyer.

    The casual buyer wants "aggressive" looks, switches, monitors, guages, wings, bling bling wheels, "look at me" styling.

    "Aggressive looks" is the one that makes me chuckle most. Like drivers in the USA are looking for ways to express their rage. Verrry contemporary concept, huh? Good reason for changing over from a distinguished, sophisticated, no-peer ad strategy to a more "kick a**" sloganry.

    All this stuff that would make Dr. Porsche roll over in his grave.

    Jan 15, 2007 6:30:39 PM

    Jim48
    Senior
    Jim48
    Loc: Virginia, USA
    Posts: 639, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 24, 2005
    Reply to: Le Chef

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    If they want to stick to Dr. Porsche's formula, they need to boost horsepower and offer a true sequential manual gearbox that won't break down. My guess is that they don't want to pay licensing fees to Magnetti Marelli so they are building their own version, which seems to be taking a bit of time. Last year at Le Mans they were running cars with one version but the gearbox broke down and needed some repairs during the race.

    Personally, I think they should delay any 998 until they get the new gearbox. Being able to offer the ceramic composite breaks at $4,000 instead of nearly $8,200 would also be a big change.

    Jim

    Jan 15, 2007 6:38:21 PM

    jplanaux Offline
    Junior
    jplanaux
    Loc: Louisiana
    Posts: 112, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 10, 2006
    Reply to: Jim48

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    I would suggest that they add an IPOD and satellite radio. You know, keep up with technology that has been available for many years through most all other auto makers.

    Jan 15, 2007 6:45:42 PM

    MMD
    Rennteam VIP
    MMD
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 9652, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
    Reply to: Jim48

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    Sorry for my rant above.

    It's just depressing to think the more Porsche thinks they have to compete the less and less attractive their cars will become to ME.

    Know what I mean?

    I liked Porsches most when they had no peers. Resulted in true driver's cars without bling factor (no 19s, no quads, no wart, etc.).

    Why do they feel they have competition these days? Probably because the board of directors wants to maximize profits.

    Sad since, in the years ahead, there'll be no really distinguished cars out there to buy anymore.

    Jan 15, 2007 7:03:26 PM

    Silver Bullet
    Veteran
    Silver Bullet
    Loc: Canada
    Posts: 1126, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 24, 2004
    Reply to: MMD

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    I think the 998 should just be more of all that's great on the 997: beautiful styling that immediately evokes the original design, throaty rear engine flat 6 with more power (direct injection etc), terrific brakes (PCCB for less would be a great idea), and more weight saving.

    They should definitely make the 998TT more exciting and a bigger performer than the current one. The 997 TT should outperform Ferrari's offering for sure.

    I also think they should build a little brother for the Carrera GT - something mid engined that costs less than the Carrera GT did, has PSM, and is aimed more at the Gallardo/F430 price and exotica crowd. It should have the BEST performance in that class, and yet still cost less than the showcars.

    Jan 15, 2007 8:04:12 PM

    MMD
    Rennteam VIP
    MMD
    Loc: usa
    Posts: 9652, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:

    I also think they should build a little brother for the Carrera GT -




    Here ya go.


    It's a Boxster with a confused owner.

    Jan 15, 2007 8:18:03 PM

    Grant
    Rennteam VIP
    Grant
    Loc: Denver, CO , United States
    Posts: 12586, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 21, 2002
    Reply to: MMD

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    I think they should have a lightweight aluminum chassis, revert to 993 dimensions (since the Panamera and Panamera-based Coupe ala 928 will cover the GT crowd), increase power, retain manual gearbox option, offer LSD and sunroof-delete as options and sell it for 997 prices with Xenon and full-leather standard.

    Jan 15, 2007 8:21:21 PM

    Silver Bullet
    Veteran
    Silver Bullet
    Loc: Canada
    Posts: 1126, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 24, 2004
    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    Quote:
    Silver Bullet said:
    I think the 998 should just be more of all that's great on the 997: beautiful styling that immediately evokes the original design, throaty rear engine flat 6 with more power (direct injection etc), terrific brakes (PCCB for less would be a great idea), and more weight saving.

    They should definitely make the 998TT more exciting and a bigger performer than the current one. The 997 TT should outperform Ferrari's offering for sure.

    I also think they should build a little brother for the Carrera GT - something mid engined that costs less than the Carrera GT did, has PSM, and is aimed more at the Gallardo/F430 price and exotica crowd. It should have the BEST performance in that class, and yet still cost less than the showcars.



    They should also offer a REAL RS in North America, and bring back sunroof delete, at least on the GT3 and GT2. The RS should cost considerably more than its nonRS counterpart because of serious weight savings: magnesium wheels, ceramic clutch, and extensive use of aluminum and carbon fibre. This would make it profit prohibitive for the now mass producer, but it would create another timeless masterpiece, could be done in limited numbers to minimize the hit, and would do wonders to help restore at least part of the image of Porsche of old - the one that was small, exotic, and feared at international endurance racing events.

    Jan 15, 2007 8:22:30 PM

    Silver Bullet
    Veteran
    Silver Bullet
    Loc: Canada
    Posts: 1126, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 24, 2004
    Reply to: Silver Bullet

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    Yikes - I think that's the blacksheep of the Carrera GT family!

    Jan 15, 2007 10:35:57 PM

    moto Offline
    Senior
    moto
    Loc: London, UK
    Posts: 608, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 8, 2005
    Reply to: MMD

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    Quote:
    MMD said:

    Here ya go.


    It's a Boxster with a confused owner.



    Hmm.. I'm sure I've seen this somewhere before... I thought it's originally a Toyota MR2!! Hilarious!

    Jan 15, 2007 11:12:10 PM

    electrao
    Junior
    electrao
    Loc: Lisbon , Portugal
    Posts: 120, Gallery
    Registered on: Aug 10, 2005
    Reply to: moto

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    I believe grant points the way to follow.
    A lighter and more compact car, lighter chassis and engine and better packaging. Aluminum and fiber should be used a lot more, led lights (better and lighter than conventional ones!!) and DI and both a manual and pdk boxes.

    Jan 16, 2007 10:10:15 PM

    69bossnine
    Rennteam Pro
    69bossnine
    Loc: FL, USA , United States
    Posts: 2028, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 27, 2005
    Reply to: electrao

    Re: 998: Evolution or Revolution?

    Lighter, yes

    More power, yes

    Clean styling, yes

    More compact? Ummm.... no I don't want a toy-sized-car, I am guilty of not wanting to be "cute". I love the size of the 997, it's about right.

    Cleaner cabin, less buttons, more intuitive controls.

    Oh, did I say more power??
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/17/24 7:16 AM
    GnilM     		777681 1798
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		441877 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		262860 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		261075 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		85341 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		5622 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 880740 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		816191 3868
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		391025 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 4/21/24 11:50 AM
    mcdelaug     		390160 1454
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		372328 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		368992 797
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie     		289243 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 261367 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		240241 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		230552 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		221234 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		169347 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		141125 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		117595 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		108673 685
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		84211 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		75111 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		53690 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM     		25100 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		21173 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		19502 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16591 120
    AMG [2022] Mercedes-AMG SL 4/23/24 1:24 PM
    RCA     		13742 225
    Motor Sp. 24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018 5/25/23 10:42 PM
    Grant     		11252 55
    126 items found, displaying 1 to 30.