Crown

lukestern:

In 10 years fast charger along motorways will be able to charge quickly enough even for this category of drivers and at that point that driver can look into the EV options in 2027...

 

One example just two weeks ago.... I and my girlfriend joined a friend of mine who own a Tesla S85D (small battery). We travelled to a summer cottage to visit some friends that was about 250km out in the sticks. We drove that stretch without stopping for a charge. When we arrived in the late afternoon the car was plugged in to a normal socket in the summer cottage, we enjoyed a dinner and slept over. Next morning we jumped in to a fully charged car and drove the same way back without charging. My friend then plugged his car in that evening and the car was fully charged the next day..... This is just one example where we drove 500km without the need for fast charging.

I have a question: how does Sweden (or are your in Norway?) generate most of its electricity? Do you still use nuclear power stations? That is part of the problem of using electricity. What benefit does it bring to the environment if nuclear energy is needed to generate electricity? What benefit does it bring if we still need traditional (fossile) power stations to generate the electricity? The answer is: none, in both cases...

However, I like how enthusiastic you are about EV cars. I still think (if you listen to car manufacturers and their experience with hybrid/ELV and market reception(!)  of these cars) that chances are much, much higher than 50% (maybe even close to 100%) that in 10 years people will be surprised to read that in 2017 people really thought that the ELV might gain a substantial market share. No kidding. Tesla is likely to be dead then already. When the next bubble bursts Tesla will also burst... But I know you have a very different opinion. Just placing this inofficial bet here 

MKSGR:

lukestern:

In 10 years fast charger along motorways will be able to charge quickly enough even for this category of drivers and at that point that driver can look into the EV options in 2027...

 

One example just two weeks ago.... I and my girlfriend joined a friend of mine who own a Tesla S85D (small battery). We travelled to a summer cottage to visit some friends that was about 250km out in the sticks. We drove that stretch without stopping for a charge. When we arrived in the late afternoon the car was plugged in to a normal socket in the summer cottage, we enjoyed a dinner and slept over. Next morning we jumped in to a fully charged car and drove the same way back without charging. My friend then plugged his car in that evening and the car was fully charged the next day..... This is just one example where we drove 500km without the need for fast charging.

I have a question: how does Sweden (or are your in Norway?) generate most of its electricity? Do you still use nuclear power stations? That is part of the problem of using electricity. What benefit does it bring to the environment if nuclear energy is needed to generate electricity? What benefit does it bring if we still need traditional (fossile) power stations to generate the electricity? The answer is: none, in both cases...

However, I like how enthusiastic you are about EV cars. I still think (if you listen to car manufacturers and their experience with hybrid/ELV and market reception(!)  of these cars) that chances are much, much higher than 50% (maybe even close to 100%) that in 10 years people will be surprised to read that in 2017 people really thought that the ELV might gain a substantial market share. No kidding. Tesla is likely to be dead then already. When the next bubble bursts Tesla will also burst... But I know you have a very different opinion. Just placing this inofficial bet here 

Yeah, a bit enthustiastic regarding EVs when it comes to daily driver. Still love petrol sports cars for those sporty drives and track-days for obvious reasons . My enthusiasm much come from that I have got the opportunity to drive several Teslas for months, have friends who own Teslas, etc. I was rather sceptic before I actually gave it a chance, but doing so  was a real eye opener for me. Not mainly the green aspect of things, more the character of the drivetrain that is so smooth, got that instant torque, tech fest with the OTA-updates and Autopilot, convenience with charging at home over night, etc. And then I happen to think the Model S with 21" grey wheels and all the added premium options is a nice package that also look very good.

Regarding your question about generating electricity. In Sweden where I used to live (before I moved to UK) the latest figure is that 56% of the power comes from Water, 33% from Nuclear, 9% from wind and 2% from fossil fuels. In Norway 97% comes from Water and 3% from fossil fuels. Regarding Nuclear you have a good point and in Sweden that is something on the agenda to completely move away from in the future. But that will take many years to get rid of for obvious reasons. Take a look at this site to see how the energy mix is in different countries in Europe:  https://www.electricitymap.org/ (Germany = 56% from fossil fuels, Poland = 94% from fossil fuels).

When it comes to Tesla and the future of EVs neither of us have the answer to that question and time will tell. I look at it from the bright side instead of bashing EVs and Tesla. I'm not connected to Tesla and really do look forward to see alternatives from Porsche, Audi, BMW etc to be launched and take them for a spin in 3-4 years or so. If it turns out that Tesla disappears from the market in 10 years (which I don't think), then that's fine also because then that is a result of that either the market didn't want their products, they couldn't deliver or other companies came up with products that appeal more to the consumers throughout the world. What Tesla have done so far is however in my view remarkable and I can't see the reason for not giving Musk & Co credit for that. If they manage to get the VW boss (and others) to express what they recently have done in media I can't see a better confirmation on that Tesla done things right.

Have you btw tested any of the latest MY2017 Teslas? Model X or S P100DL with the new seats etc?

No, I did not test the cars myself (yet). Only as a passenger (Taxi in Amsterdam ). Might be interesting to try one, however, for my personal use profile they do not make perfect sense though as (when I drive) I usually drive longer distances (yesterday I did about 1100km...) 

MKSGR:

No, I did not test the cars myself (yet). Only as a passenger (Taxi in Amsterdam ). Might be interesting to try one, however, for my personal use profile they do not make perfect sense though as (when I drive) I usually drive longer distances (yesterday I did about 1100km...) 

Electric cars are great for long distances so long as they are adequately charged. Very smooth and quiet. One of the quietest modes of transportation.

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

nberry:

MKSGR:

No, I did not test the cars myself (yet). Only as a passenger (Taxi in Amsterdam ). Might be interesting to try one, however, for my personal use profile they do not make perfect sense though as (when I drive) I usually drive longer distances (yesterday I did about 1100km...) 

Electric cars are great for long distances so long as they are adequately charged. Very smooth and quiet. One of the quietest modes of transportation.

To be honest, I enjoyed the turbo Cabrio in beautiful weather very much yesterday  Also passed a Tesla (that drove quite quick on the Autobahn, up to 200kph I would say) but could not wait for him 

Also, how much time would I have spent charging my car on a 1100km trip... Fueling took me about 8-10 minutes (in total) 

1,100km? That's why they have planes and high speed trains. Except for Germany, you will have a hard time to average more than 120km/h and that doesn't even count for various breaks. And that's most likely highway mostly which is really boring at speed limits, and no word on how much traffic there was (it is summer).

I can have my car shipped 1,000 miles for $800 in the USA. In Europe, between toll and fuel you are at 250e and that doesn't count the wear and tear on the car.

That said it will a while before an EV will be suitable for that trip. Today you might get away with 800km, two stints of 400km with lunch in the middle to recharge.

SciFrog:

1,100km? That's why they have planes and high speed trains. Except for Germany, you will have a hard time to average more than 120km/h and that doesn't even count for various breaks. And that's most likely highway mostly which is really boring at speed limits, and no word on how much traffic there was (it is summer).

I can have my car shipped 1,000 miles for $800 in the USA. In Europe, between toll and fuel you are at 250e and that doesn't count the wear and tear on the car.

That said it will a while before an EV will be suitable for that trip. Today you might get away with 800km, two stints of 400km with lunch in the middle to recharge.

You are right, ideally I would take the train or plane for such long distances. However, the 1100km where a   round trip with two stops in locations that are very time consuming to reach by train or plane. Thus, in these cases there is no substitute for using the car 

Interesting article on Tesla's future.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-will-survive-but-still-not-rule-the-electric-car-future-2017-7

"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."

https://electrek.co/2017/07/22/tesla-seat-options-now-vegan/

All "vegan"interiors now and can't even get leather interior option? 

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

https://electrek.co/2017/07/22/tesla-seat-options-now-vegan/

All "vegan"interiors now and can't even get leather interior option? 

Great huckster move renaming petroleum based vinyl seats "vegan".   

I actually have friends who became vegan lately and they don't wear anything with leather anymore . They got rid of all their leather jackets, belts , shoes etc.... I couldn't believe it  

--

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

I actually have friends who became vegan lately and they don't wear anything with leather anymore . They got rid of all their leather jackets, belts , shoes etc.... I couldn't believe it  

 

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 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

 

This craziness is like a virus... 

I understand vegetarians, they don't like meat or don't want to eat animals. No problem with that.

Vegans? Just crazy. OK, it is a choice but I don't have to like it. It just doesn't make sense.

One of my friends is a well known professor for internal medicine in Bavaria. We recently talked about the "phenomenon" Gluten. Suddenly, everyone seems to be sensitive to Gluten.  It has become viral.

Most people he examines don't have coeliac disease and actually, they are not sensitive to Gluten but apparently they think they are and the psychological impact is huge. Suddenly everyone wants to avoid Gluten because it is so toxic.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Gnil:

I actually have friends who became vegan lately and they don't wear anything with leather anymore . They got rid of all their leather jackets, belts , shoes etc.... I couldn't believe it  

 

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 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

 

So, no more meetings at the ring with blue wearing full leathers   ....

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

Leather is a crappy interior material anyway.

noone1:

Leather is a crappy interior material anyway.

 You are too predictable noone1  

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

It's only good for wiping up spills and fake leather will work just fine. Nothing like getting into 130F black leather seats in the Summer, right?

RC:

Gnil:

I actually have friends who became vegan lately and they don't wear anything with leather anymore . They got rid of all their leather jackets, belts , shoes etc.... I couldn't believe it  

 

--

 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

 

This craziness is like a virus... 

I understand vegetarians, they don't like meat or don't want to eat animals. No problem with that.

Vegans? Just crazy. OK, it is a choice but I don't have to like it. It just doesn't make sense.

One of my friends is a well known professor for internal medicine in Bavaria. We recently talked about the "phenomenon" Gluten. Suddenly, everyone seems to be sensitive to Gluten.  It has become viral.

Most people he examines don't have coeliac disease and actually, they are not sensitive to Gluten but apparently they think they are and the psychological impact is huge. Suddenly everyone wants to avoid Gluten because it is so toxic.  

The worst part is when these "obsessive ignorants" for lack of a better description force their misconceptions and crazy ideas into their children, that is what really gets me, unnecessary gluten diets for children who are growing up, or unbalanced vegan diets, etc... Just like with anti-vaccines or home remedies...

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

noone1:

It's only good for wiping up spills and fake leather will work just fine. Nothing like getting into 130F black leather seats in the Summer, right?

Fake leather looks and smells horrible. Quality is also often bad, it cracks fast and not in a nice way (patina look of "old" leather).

Black leather seats in summer? No problem. All the cars I drove in the US have seat ventilation. I do not wear short pants, so no problem for me (only my wife and kids complain but it takes only a minute or two and the heat is "gone").

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

noone1:

It's only good for wiping up spills and fake leather will work just fine. Nothing like getting into 130F black leather seats in the Summer, right?

Sure, while we are at it why paint the car at all? The paint only shows scratches more, in fact body panels should all be plastic, it's lighter and cheaper to fix, same with the interior, no sense in using anything other than plastic bits...

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Less grip making you slide in a turn, super hot in the summer sun, ice cold in the winter... what's not to like about it? Leather is a crappy material for car interiors. There is some sort of fake leather in the Toyota and it feels/looks fine.

Smells better, feels better, looks better... You can keep the cheapo fake stuff all to your self buddy  ... Toyota fake leather lol

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Carlos from Spain:

Smells better, feels better, looks better... You can keep the cheapo fake stuff all to your self buddy  ... Toyota fake leather lol

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

You guys have a interior leather rubbing fetish or something? Ride around naked? My skin barely even comes in contact with the interior leather surfaces.

noone1:

You guys have a interior leather rubbing fetish or something? Ride around naked? My skin barely even comes in contact with the interior leather surfaces.

I rather think you run around like this  because when I drive my car, my skin touches the leather when I get inside/out the car, when I move, when I move my body and so on, especially when I wear short sleeves in spring/summer. I can also see and smell the leather. 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

,,, ffs.

How long did that pic take you to find, holy moly......

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.

Just (PLEASE) ignore that link in the photo...not a website you want to go to.  

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

Just dont get black seats or interior. I own 6 cars, none is black or grey. Alcantara is nice but nothing comes close to a real nice leather, unless Toyota has reinvented the whole thing 

SciFrog:

Just dont get black seats or interior. I own 6 cars, none is black or grey. Alcantara is nice but nothing comes close to a real nice leather, unless Toyota has reinvented the whole thing 

I love Alcantara and would always take it over any leather interior (sports cars only) but this isn't fake leather and usually, manufacturers combine Alcantara with leather (not fake one).

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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Just (PLEASE) ignore that link in the photo...not a website you want to go to.  

Okay, bit of self advertising there , mucker... 

throt

"I Have Done It!".

991 GT3 pick up in October 2014.

Rennteam Hairy Chest Advisor.