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    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Both cars are to be respected.

    But in any case you shall never ever have the respect and regognition you have when driving the 911. As a matter of fact I have noticed when driving an M3 that drivers that I am trying to overtake do not step aside and they try to accelerate. The problem with M3 is also that there are a lot of 316 or 320 Base models that have the M3 look so from that point of view it looks sometimes like a wannabe car...

    Of course the E46 six cylinder in line engine is awesome but I always disliked the fact that this car a) Was a heavy understearer and b) that the brakes were not up to the cars performance like many M models including the new Z4 M coupe. I do not understand why on earth BMW has not took care of this braking problems yet. How do they expect a car with such a power to brake propely with a single caliper ....

    In any case I think that as Colin Chapman said weight is a cars enemy they must try and keep it low.

    I also believe the new M3 will not understeer so much because the V8 is more compact thus pulling the weight of the car more towards the center....

    I may not be objective but I love any 911. I am sure that the new M3 will drive as hell but let us see how it is going to handle.

    One thing is sure the m3 is a fantastic car for its value...

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    I doubt the V8 switch will make the car less of an understeering pig; bmw has over the years purposely put more understeer into their cars: E30 M3 was balanced. 95 M3's with better front suspension geometry and non staggered tires was balanced. 96-99 M3s things got a little undsteery. Then, the E46 M3. Whoa, what a pig.

    History dictates this one will be piggish too. Perhaps though b/c of all the electronics, they'll make the car more balanced and rely on electrons to bail out crappy drivers.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Uh, oh..., BMW bashing. Not THAT much fun because there are zero cars left which compare to the exhaulted Porsche marque.

    IOW, if you knock out BMW, what's left? Nothing.

    That's a sad state of affairs because All I'm left with is a Cayenne, a 997s, a 986S.

    I have no way to get around in a sedan! Guess I have to wait for the Panamera?

    Until then BMW is a great choice; I'm glad they make such good very well-thought-out cars (UNlike Porsche).

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    I wonder what the M enthustiasts are saying on the BMW forums? The 997 is a great car but it's not worth $30k more than the M-3. I think the M will easily take the P car in most speed runs and give it a hard run at the track. It will most likely be lacking in the brake department, but it surley makes up for it in the resale department. I'm sorry, but Porsche's resale is horrific. Drive a $90k car 5k per year for two years and lose $25-30k; yeah, that sounds like fun. Part of Porsche's problems are that they overcharge for EVERYTHING, then they give the dealer a $10k markup. Obviously they need to have a wide margin because they produce and sell so few cars comparitively but, give me a break. I'd rather Porsche sell at MSRP and nothing less, if I knew that my car would be worth something a resale time. One local example, an '05 Carrea S Cab (8k sticker), 2k miles. The poor sole can't even get 70k on a trade in against a 130k turbo with a $20k mark up. That's just not right. Sorry to ramble and sorry for those whom I've offended; it's just how I feel. Porsche, you need to step up.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    It's true about the resale value! Ouch ouch ouch

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Quote:
    boytronic said:
    I think the comparison will be similar to that of E46 M3 vs 996 Carrera... New M3 might be able to keep up or even pull harder in a straight line, but I'd rather have the 997C2S which is better overall than in just a few places...

    If BMW made the E90 M3 better than the E46 M3 "CSL" then they could have a sure winner on their hands, but based on the latest M5/M6 I'm not so sure...

    Did you see the Top Gear episode where the 997 went against the M6 on the same stretch of country roads? The 997 was quicker than the M6...



    Of course, it was quicker, it had better be. Change the venue to a Blvd. stoplight run and there would be a whole different ending. It shouldn't be a surprise that the 997 (3200 lbs.) out handled a 4000 lb sedan. It SHOULD be a surprise that the same SEDAN can outrun it in a straight line. Even if the car hadn't been Banglized, I still opt for the P car against the M, in part because the cars are similar in price and depreciation. However, enter E92 M3, for $25k less with a high revving V8 and a historically great resale; different outcome for me.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Quote:
    devo said:
    One local example, an '05 Carrea S Cab (8k sticker), 2k miles. The poor sole can't even get 70k on a trade in against a 130k turbo with a $20k mark up. That's just not right.



    Yes this is quite believeable. I'm trading my 997S in next year (or the one after that) for a TT I expect to just keep paying and paying and paying to drive these cars.

    I like BMW because it's an excellent product if it's made/assembled in Germany, Austria, Finland and the like...,(not USA). Good value compared to Porsche.

    my us$.02

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Quote:
    rhino said:
    It's true about the resale value! Ouch ouch ouch


    My two Porsches are still worth more than I paid. Get an air-cooled

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    rhino said:
    It's true about the resale value! Ouch ouch ouch


    My two Porsches are still worth more than I paid. Get an air-cooled



    Mine has'nt lost no money , in fact its gaining.. ..

    throt....

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    I'll take the one from the avatar please

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    I'll weigh in here with my experience. My M3 with all the Dinan S3 R modifications (supercharger, 3.91 diff, Brembo BBK, JRZ shocks, Dinan's muffler, springs, camber plates, wheels, sway bar, and shock tower struts) is a solid performer. Virtually no understeer, reasonablely compliant suspension, and fairly fast. The car has power (462), but little torque (328), so one has to keep it "stirred" up to make it go. While it is heavy at about 3425 lbs it seems nimble enough for "spirited driving". Sports car? I think not.

    I have driven a 997TT albiet only briefly and the differences are readily apparent. The 997TT's torque allows it to be driven like a big American V-8. The ride seems about the same as my M3, but the handling of the 997TT is far superior, because of the AWD. The Porsche feels and looks much more refined. When I get my turbo I'll be able to compare the two more carefully.

    As to the new M3, my guess it'll be heavier, have lots of understeer, a little more torque, a significant amount of power, and more luxury features available. The price might end up being fairly close to the C2. For my money the C2 will be the better choice. However, a 4 door M3 is rumored and if true that could be a hot seller for BMW.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    If the M3 looks anything like the new 3 series coupe (which it obviously will) then I don't care what the performance figures might be. I just don't buy cars which I find ugly.

    Would you marry a hideously ugly woman just because she can iron 8 shirts an hour when your gorgeous alternative can only iron 6 in the same time?

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    If the M3 looks anything like the new 3 series coupe (which it obviously will) then I don't care what the performance figures might be. I just don't buy cars which I find ugly.





    I kinda agree. When the Z cars came out I was sick. Now they look just "okay" not great by any means.

    As an aside I "hate" the look of the PRE-Bangle front end of my 04M3 but I live with it. Looks like a cross between a snowplow and big-mouthed bottom feeding fish.

    It's fkng amazing that BMW has made their cars resemble bloated aquatic mammals

    Would be nice to live to see the day when the BMW becomes an elegantly understated gorgeous car again.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    The new 3 series of BMW is the most ugliest BMW car imo. It reminds me the old version of Nissan Primera

    For a comparison with Carrera S , i would go for a Carrera S any day

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    If the two cars happen to be very comparable in performance then we need to either give the M Division a lot of praise for making a sporty sedan so comparable to a benchmark sportscar that costs $35k more, or we need to draw the conclusion that Porsche needs to get its act together. Say what you want about aesthetics and such, but in terms of performance if there's only a slight difference then I'll be disappointed in Porsche.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Quote:
    MMD said:
    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    If the M3 looks anything like the new 3 series coupe (which it obviously will) then I don't care what the performance figures might be. I just don't buy cars which I find ugly.





    I kinda agree. When the Z cars came out I was sick. Now they look just "okay" not great by any means.

    As an aside I "hate" the look of the PRE-Bangle front end of my 04M3 but I live with it. Looks like a cross between a snowplow and big-mouthed bottom feeding fish.

    It's fkng amazing that BMW has made their cars resemble bloated aquatic mammals

    Would be nice to live to see the day when the BMW becomes an elegantly understated gorgeous car again.



    LOL! Good picture, I had a good laugh

    Thanks MMD.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Quote:
    VGA18 said:
    The new 3 series of BMW is the most ugliest BMW car imo. It reminds me the old version of Nissan Primera

    For a comparison with Carrera S , i would go for a Carrera S any day



    Definately, the performance has to be REALLY good for me look past that point.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Quote:
    Mike S said:


    LOL! Good picture, I had a good laugh

    Thanks MMD.



    My pleasure.

    The guy who did the photo deserves an award.

    I hope someone sent it to the BMW Board of Directors.

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Hey Mike S., here's another one I kinda like:

    Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997

    Drive the M3 round a track hard. Three laps later it has melted. Driven the 997 round a track all day. Then drive it home.

     
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