Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: modified GT2 - Page1

Apr 24, 2004 7:03:11 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: modified GT2

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Just read the sport auto test.

The 0-200 figure is 11.8 not 11.2. That changes the perspective somehow.

Hockenheim is 1.11.6.

You're right, 11.8 is a different story than 11.2. I know this sounds ridiculous but in this performance category, each 0.1 second counts. Maybe CF should relax now.

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Apr 24, 2004 7:09:04 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: modified GT2

The solution is simple.
Produce results that are in line with what they have promised.

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Apr 24, 2004 7:09:26 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: modified GT2

In Antwort auf:
RC said:
In Antwort auf:
MKSGR said:
Just read the sport auto test.

The 0-200 figure is 11.8 not 11.2. That changes the perspective somehow.

Hockenheim is 1.11.6.

You're right, 11.8 is a different story than 11.2. I know this sounds ridiculous but in this performance category, each 0.1 second counts. Maybe CF should relax now.

CF should wait until he gets his CGT and then we talk again!
(I'm sure he will have a different point of view then!)

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Apr 24, 2004 7:15:29 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: modified GT2

Naturally I won't be dissapointed, but it would be great if Porsche upheld their heritage as a manufacturer with conservative performance claims.

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Apr 24, 2004 7:27:55 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: modified GT2

In Antwort auf:
CF said:
Naturally I won't be dissapointed, but it would be great if Porsche upheld their heritage as a manufacturer with conservative performance claims.

You're absolutely right in that point. I don't know, what went "wrong" (if you can call it that way) with the official numbers for the CGT. Is it because it's so difficult to get the best out of it as said in some car magazines?

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Apr 24, 2004 7:35:08 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: modified GT2

Apparently not, since the numbers for 0-100 are better than those stated.
The problem starts from 100-.....

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Apr 24, 2004 7:41:16 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: modified GT2

In Antwort auf:
CF said:
Apparently not, since the numbers for 0-100 are better than those stated.
The problem starts from 100-.....

Hmm, of course, you're right. So tell me, what's your hypothesis for the time loss at speeds above 100 km/h ?

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Apr 24, 2004 7:48:16 PM

Bilal: Expert; Loc: Manchester, UK; Posts: 1533, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 20, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: modified GT2

Perhaps incorrect gearing (long ratio) making improper use of engine's torque curve?

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Apr 24, 2004 7:52:26 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Bilal

Re: modified GT2

In Antwort auf:
///AMG Mercedes said:
Perhaps incorrect gearing (long ratio) making improper use of engine's torque curve?

Well, could be. But then the top speed of the CGT should be higher than the official - what is it? - 330 km/h? Or am I wrong with that?

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Apr 24, 2004 8:08:06 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Rossi

Re: modified GT2

Given that the cars used in the tests where preproduction cars might give an explanation.
With the start of the actual production the whole process has been optimised and hopefully reached a point where the cars perform accordingly.

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Apr 25, 2004 1:16:09 AM

cjv: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 221, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 30, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: modified GT2

You can't really do justice comparing the turbo/GT2 to the CGT. Just look at the gearing.

CGT
1st-3.20-1
2nd-1.87-1
3rd-1.36-1
4th-1.07-1
5th-0.90-1
6th-0.75-1

turbo/GT2
1st-3.82-1
2nd-2.05-1
3rd-1.41-1
4th-1.12-1
5th-0.92-1
6th-0.75-1

On the CGT 1st and 2nd are very tall, 3rd, 4th and 5th are also taller. Only 6th is equal.

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Apr 25, 2004 6:36:41 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: modified GT2

No info about Nordschleife ? However very impressive result, so now the Supercar of Real World (except C GT, Enzo, Zonda, Koenigsegg, Slr) is 996 GT2 MY 20004 over Gallardo, Murcielago, 360 CS,M3 Csl !!!!!!!!!!

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Apr 25, 2004 4:17:55 PM

Les Quam: Newbie; Loc: Las Vegas; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2003; Reply to: andrea

Re: modified GT2

I hate to rain on the 04 GT 2 parade. But I took delivery of mine Thursday and returned it Friday. The car was a slug. My 02 GT 2 was much faster, this car was an absloute dog. Even the porsche master tech said it was the slowest GT 2 he has ever driven.
The dealer is trying to find something wrong but as of now has found nothing. They have a call into Germany to try to reprogram the computer.
The dealer took the car back and said if they can't find any problems they will give me my money back and sell it to someone else.
It's getting full boost it's simply a huge disappointment after waiting since last June and selling my 02 GT2 for this dog.

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Apr 25, 2004 10:00:23 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Les Quam

Re: modified GT2

Quote:
Les Quam said:
I hate to rain on the 04 GT 2 parade. But I took delivery of mine Thursday and returned it Friday. The car was a slug.

So you did at least 3000 mls in one day? Wow.

Let me explain a little bit: the motronic on the GT2 learns. It not only learns, it also tries to protect the engine. For the first couple of thousand of mls, the GT2 engine, drivetrain, gearbox, etc. need to run in to be able to create maximum performance figures. Of course the GT2 has impressive performance numbers from the beginning but not from 20 mls. You need minimum 500 mls to get a decent performance and even more to reach the performance max. Another thing: if you drive the GT2 hard from the start, it can happen that some parts of the engine or drivetrain don't work as they should. The GT2 engine is not a mass production engine and it needs proper brake-in. I know some people in the US believe that myth that a hard brake-in is the best but this isn't true. The first Porsche which actually doesn't need a real brake-in is the Cayenne. In Germany, we have no real brake-in rules (max. rpm, certain mileage). But ONLY for the Cayenne. Surprisingly, the Cayenne for the US seems still to have tight brake-in rules. And of course it can't be excluded that you just got a bad car.

But selling the car after one day is a bit...extreme, if you ask me.

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Apr 26, 2004 1:45:18 AM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: CF

Re: modified GT2

"I find it extremely disconcerting that the Carrera GT not once has performed according to the stated performance, with one exception of course: 0-100: 3.8 sec (factory claim 3.9 sec) "

Autoweek:

0-60 mph: 3.5 sec
0-100 mph: 7.06
1/4 mile: 11:35 @ 129.5 mph
0-100-0: 11.6 sec, 882 ft
60-0: 104 ft
lateral acceleration (50 m skidpad): 0.95 g

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Apr 27, 2004 5:06:17 AM

Les Quam: Newbie; Loc: Las Vegas; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2003; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: modified GT2

RC,
I am comparing the car to the way my two previous GT 2s performed when I bought them. I keep the car within safe breakin limits. Both GT2s were noticeably more powerful when I left the dealership.
And as I indicated the Porsche master tech is the one who first noticed the huge difference from every other GT 2 he has driven. He thinks the computer is possibly not operating correctly. His other theory is that Porsche has programmed in a different power curve on the 04 GT 2 to reduce the sudden manner in which the power comes on. The car actually feels like it has turbo lag. This car in it's current condition will never "learn" to generate anywhere near it's claimed HP.

If you drove the car you would turn it back in also, it is terribly disappointing. I didn't wait 11 months to just dump the car. The tech and I prepped the car ourselves and I detailed it myself at the dealer to get it right before I bought it. The point being I really want the car. But the performance is horrible. And I have enough experience with GT2s both on the street and track to know what the limits of acceptable variation should be with the car and other turbo's. My thoughts are that the remapped ECU for 04 was changed to allow for a more linear power band.
We are waiting to hear back from germany. In the mean time the car is sitting in my garage so nothing happens to it while we wait for some help.

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Apr 27, 2004 9:23:55 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: Les Quam

Re: modified GT2

Quote:
Les Quam said:
We are waiting to hear back from germany. In the mean time the car is sitting in my garage so nothing happens to it while we wait for some help.

My dealer has a GT2 for his personal enjoyment and he loves his car. He actually wanted to go for the CGT but decided else because he didn't want to race a 500000 Euro car on the track.

He seems pretty happy with his new toy, no turbo lag and very powerful. I'll post some pictures later on.
Maybe there really is something wrong with your car, it can't be excluded. I suppose you're an addict like myself and guys like us usually feel a difference in power or performance immediately. I keep my fingers crossed for you!

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