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    Dec 19, 2006 7:46:25 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Update on Ferrari plans

    It appears there will be a 430 CS to be introduced next summer. The exact details concerning the car remain unknown but 520hp with a lighter chassis and the other enhancement given to the 360CS. This comes as a suprise to me given their problems with the airbag issue.

    Also, the two year exemption for the 430 will stick and should Ferrari decide to wait until 2010 for its replacement then it would only make sense that the Dino be available for sale between 2008-2010.

    I am also told that the new Maserati coupe is so good that people will be lining up to buy one. Rumor is almost 500hp with substantially more than a GT chassis and suspension.

    Next two years will be interesting.

    Dec 19, 2006 7:57:31 PM

    Mike S
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Nice! Thanks for the info Nick.

    The F430 CS will be a beast

    Dec 19, 2006 8:13:16 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: Mike S

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Nice! Thanks for the info Nick.

    The F430 CS will be a beast



    So you are on the list Mike?

    Dec 19, 2006 8:47:36 PM

    Mike S
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Nice! Thanks for the info Nick.

    The F430 CS will be a beast



    So you are on the list Mike?



    I still have a deposit down and the F430 spider hasn't gone into production yet.... hmmmmmm

    Dec 19, 2006 9:45:28 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Does I told you so sound too snooty? But that's only re; the CS.

    The 2 yr exempt is new to me. What's the deal Nick? Are you saying there will not be a car between the end of the 430 (end of 08) and the next car in 2010? Find it hard to swallow/believe.

    Dec 19, 2006 9:58:44 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: Mike S

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Nice! Thanks for the info Nick.

    The F430 CS will be a beast



    So you are on the list Mike?



    I still have a deposit down and the F430 spider hasn't gone into production yet.... hmmmmmm



    Ahhh, I knew something is going on...

    Dec 19, 2006 10:04:29 PM

    Mike S
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    Mike S said:
    Nice! Thanks for the info Nick.

    The F430 CS will be a beast



    So you are on the list Mike?



    I still have a deposit down and the F430 spider hasn't gone into production yet.... hmmmmmm



    Ahhh, I knew something is going on...



    Ha ha ha - don't get your hopes up I'll see what I can find out from my dealer.

    Dec 19, 2006 10:05:15 PM

    nberry Offline
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Does I told you so sound too snooty? But that's only re; the CS.

    The 2 yr exempt is new to me. What's the deal Nick? Are you saying there will not be a car between the end of the 430 (end of 08) and the next car in 2010? Find it hard to swallow/believe.



    As I do. Yet it is possible that Ferrari will provide dealers with a higher volume Dino to make up for the 430 replacement. I still beleive Ferrari will introduce the replacement later part of 2008 and my source does not disagree. However, the Dino could be their out should Ferrari choose to wait until 2010.

    Dec 20, 2006 3:52:48 AM

    shin
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    Reply to: nberry

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Well, from Ferrari's release about the F430's airbag issue :

    "In its petition, Ferrari details its plans to continue the F430 line until late 2008, when it will "be replaced by a newly designed eight-cylinder model." "

    Note that Ferrari did not mention the new V8 model as the F430's replacement/successor. I believe that that "newly designed eight-cylinder model" is to be the new front-engined GT (commonly referred as Dino).

    Imho, this opens the possibility that the F430's spiritual successor (mid-engined) could have an engine that is not necessarily a V8. Could be a V10 or even a small displacement, very high-revving V12 derived from the 599/Enzo (as once rumored a while ago).

    With the new front-engined V8 as the new entry level Ferrari (making it in a way IS the F430's successor), and that the new mid-engined car will move up a class in price, I don't see why Ferrari would still be offering a V8 (making it sound like entry-level).

    As for the V8's association with F1, well, since engine development is practically frozen for 4 years ahead, I don't see the need to spend money to keep developing the V8. Personally, for displacements of 5-litre and above, I would rather see a 'small' V10/V12 than a 'large' V8 not unlike AMG's 6.2L V8.

    The MY 2008 Gallardo will have a 550 bhp, 5.2L V10 with direct injection (FSI), and its successor will have even more power, so Imho Ferrari should really investigate the possibility of offering at least a V10 for their next generation mid-engined model, which by the time it comes out will see the Gallardo's successor already only a year or two away from launch.

    Please note that this is just an opinion...one might agree or disagree.

    Dec 20, 2006 9:43:11 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: shin

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    shin said:
    Well, from Ferrari's release about the F430's airbag issue :

    "In its petition, Ferrari details its plans to continue the F430 line until late 2008, when it will "be replaced by a newly designed eight-cylinder model." "

    Note that Ferrari did not mention the new V8 model as the F430's replacement/successor. I believe that that "newly designed eight-cylinder model" is to be the new front-engined GT (commonly referred as Dino).

    Imho, this opens the possibility that the F430's spiritual successor (mid-engined) could have an engine that is not necessarily a V8. Could be a V10 or even a small displacement, very high-revving V12 derived from the 599/Enzo (as once rumored a while ago).

    With the new front-engined V8 as the new entry level Ferrari (making it in a way IS the F430's successor), and that the new mid-engined car will move up a class in price, I don't see why Ferrari would still be offering a V8 (making it sound like entry-level).

    As for the V8's association with F1, well, since engine development is practically frozen for 4 years ahead, I don't see the need to spend money to keep developing the V8. Personally, for displacements of 5-litre and above, I would rather see a 'small' V10/V12 than a 'large' V8 not unlike AMG's 6.2L V8.

    The MY 2008 Gallardo will have a 550 bhp, 5.2L V10 with direct injection (FSI), and its successor will have even more power, so Imho Ferrari should really investigate the possibility of offering at least a V10 for their next generation mid-engined model, which by the time it comes out will see the Gallardo's successor already only a year or two away from launch.

    Please note that this is just an opinion...one might agree or disagree.



    It may be only an opinion, but it's a very interesting opinion, shin.

    Indeed with "newly designed eight-cylinder model" the new "Dino" could be meant. Let's wait and see, interesting times ahead.

    Dec 20, 2006 12:25:44 PM

    rosso nuvola
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    I think ( and hope) that Ferrari will never make a v10 , besides the v8 from the 430 its new there is still room to improvements , and developing a v10 woould meen to start from scratch and would cost to much money . doesn't make sense.

    Dec 20, 2006 12:31:55 PM

    zzbobaA
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    shin said:
    Well, from Ferrari's release about the F430's airbag issue :

    "In its petition, Ferrari details its plans to continue the F430 line until late 2008, when it will "be replaced by a newly designed eight-cylinder model." "

    Note that Ferrari did not mention the new V8 model as the F430's replacement/successor. I believe that that "newly designed eight-cylinder model" is to be the new front-engined GT (commonly referred as Dino).

    Imho, this opens the possibility that the F430's spiritual successor (mid-engined) could have an engine that is not necessarily a V8. Could be a V10 or even a small displacement, very high-revving V12 derived from the 599/Enzo (as once rumored a while ago).

    With the new front-engined V8 as the new entry level Ferrari (making it in a way IS the F430's successor), and that the new mid-engined car will move up a class in price, I don't see why Ferrari would still be offering a V8 (making it sound like entry-level).

    As for the V8's association with F1, well, since engine development is practically frozen for 4 years ahead, I don't see the need to spend money to keep developing the V8. Personally, for displacements of 5-litre and above, I would rather see a 'small' V10/V12 than a 'large' V8 not unlike AMG's 6.2L V8.

    The MY 2008 Gallardo will have a 550 bhp, 5.2L V10 with direct injection (FSI), and its successor will have even more power, so Imho Ferrari should really investigate the possibility of offering at least a V10 for their next generation mid-engined model, which by the time it comes out will see the Gallardo's successor already only a year or two away from launch.

    Please note that this is just an opinion...one might agree or disagree.



    It may be only an opinion, but it's a very interesting opinion, shin.

    Indeed with "newly designed eight-cylinder model" the new "Dino" could be meant. Let's wait and see, interesting times ahead.



    Hm yes, this is starting to make sense now. The "Dino" GT will be the successor to the F430 in a way -- this time with a front engine.

    And the next mid engined car will be even more extreme, gets a V12 and will be priced above 200K.

    Perfect!

    Dec 20, 2006 1:14:13 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: zzbobaA

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Hm yes, this is starting to make sense now. The "Dino" GT will be the successor to the F430 in a way -- this time with a front engine.

    And the next mid engined car will be even more extreme, gets a V12 and will be priced above 200K.

    Perfect!




    That the F430 successor could easily reach the 200k barrier (at least with some gimmicks like CCM) is possibly the truth.
    Not sure about the V12 though...

    Dec 20, 2006 2:30:19 PM

    elysium
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Not sure about the V12 though...



    Though a V10 starts making more and more sense..

    As mere BMWs and Audis have V10 engines and the Gallardo is starting to become a real threat, having a "smaller" engine might not be good for the "non-enthusiast" part of their buyer base. And especially with an upcoming V8 front-engined ferrari, they need to defend the extra price for the F430 successor with every means possible (as they can then command a higher price).

    Maybe a V8 is simply too common nowadays

    Dec 20, 2006 4:54:37 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: elysium

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Not sure about the V12 though...



    Though a V10 starts making more and more sense..

    As mere BMWs and Audis have V10 engines and the Gallardo is starting to become a real threat, having a "smaller" engine might not be good for the "non-enthusiast" part of their buyer base. And especially with an upcoming V8 front-engined ferrari, they need to defend the extra price for the F430 successor with every means possible (as they can then command a higher price).

    Maybe a V8 is simply too common nowadays



    So a very sporty high revving V12 makes even more sense, even more as the V12 is the engine of Ferrari.

    Dec 20, 2006 5:07:57 PM

    elysium
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Not sure about the V12 though...



    Though a V10 starts making more and more sense..

    As mere BMWs and Audis have V10 engines and the Gallardo is starting to become a real threat, having a "smaller" engine might not be good for the "non-enthusiast" part of their buyer base. And especially with an upcoming V8 front-engined ferrari, they need to defend the extra price for the F430 successor with every means possible (as they can then command a higher price).

    Maybe a V8 is simply too common nowadays



    So a very sporty high revving V12 makes even more sense, even more as the V12 is the engine of Ferrari.



    They would still need to command a premium for the 612 / 599 type cars, and that indicates a V10. So does the leap up to the new F60, it's also seperated by having a V12 (I know it's silly, but the psychology of it works for me ). A V12 in the F430 successor might make the F60 "a beefed up F4xx" to some people.

    Another thing is just how good a high reving V12 mid-engined Ferrari in the 200k range sounds, it's simply just too good. Car manufacturers strive to make their cars "good enough", not "as good as possible". The V10 would solve their problems with the Dino and still make the 612 / 599 "more Ferrari" and therefor more expensive. I'd consider it much more likely with a continuing V8 than a V12, even as sweet as that sounds

    Dec 20, 2006 5:23:25 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: elysium

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Not sure about the V12 though...



    Though a V10 starts making more and more sense..

    As mere BMWs and Audis have V10 engines and the Gallardo is starting to become a real threat, having a "smaller" engine might not be good for the "non-enthusiast" part of their buyer base. And especially with an upcoming V8 front-engined ferrari, they need to defend the extra price for the F430 successor with every means possible (as they can then command a higher price).

    Maybe a V8 is simply too common nowadays



    So a very sporty high revving V12 makes even more sense, even more as the V12 is the engine of Ferrari.



    They would still need to command a premium for the 612 / 599 type cars, and that indicates a V10. So does the leap up to the new F60, it's also seperated by having a V12 (I know it's silly, but the psychology of it works for me ). A V12 in the F430 successor might make the F60 "a beefed up F4xx" to some people.

    Another thing is just how good a high reving V12 mid-engined Ferrari in the 200k range sounds, it's simply just too good. Car manufacturers strive to make their cars "good enough", not "as good as possible". The V10 would solve their problems with the Dino and still make the 612 / 599 "more Ferrari" and therefor more expensive. I'd consider it much more likely with a continuing V8 than a V12, even as sweet as that sounds



    Yeah, you're absolutely right elysium, but just let us dream a little bit, especially so short before Christmas.

    4.5-litre-V8 Dino
    5.0-litre-V12 F430 successor
    6.0-litre-V12 599/612
    6.5-litre-V12 Enzo successor

    That would be something.

    Dec 20, 2006 8:06:01 PM

    KresoF1
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Since Dino will have V8 something like 5.0L(!?) V10 for F430 replacement makes sense to me. Why? If you go above 4.5L in V8 piston size will increase too much. Not a good thing for high-reving engine...
    But, if Ferrari choose V10 option then it will be for the first time that competition was actually responsible for change(from V8 to V10) IMHO.
    BTW, intro will probably be Paris 2008...

    Dec 20, 2006 8:59:36 PM

    The Groom
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    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    But, if Ferrari choose V10 option then it will be for the first time that competition was actually responsible for change


    It'd actually be the second time. Without the Miura, the 365 GT4 Berlinetta Boxer would have been a front-engined car, just like the 365 GTB/4 Daytona before her.

    I died a little inside when the Testarossa was replaced with the 550. While the latter was definitely a better car, its bland styling and the engine layout were quite a letdown.
    It signaled Ferrari had conceded the higher ground to Lamborghini and were now going for the 500SL market instead.

    Dec 20, 2006 9:26:35 PM

    vinnie
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    Reply to: The Groom

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    It's funny you say that because I remember being absolutely shocked at
    Ferrari going from the stunning (even today) shape of the Testarossa, to the
    boring shape of the 550.
    I was only young but I thought they made a huge mistake.

    To me the best looking Ferrari's are the F 40 for their super car, 355 for their
    lower priced model and the Testarossa for their 12 cylinder models.
    Which do you prefer ?

    Dec 20, 2006 9:27:44 PM

    vinnie
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    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    550.

    Dec 20, 2006 9:38:01 PM

    The Groom
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    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    I see I'm not the only one. You showed a picture of the facelifted 512M, though. I much prefer the 512 TR (first facelift, still with pop-up lights).

    Excellent choice otherwise. The F355 in all forms and the F40 are pure sex on wheels. That said, I love the 456, too. And the Daytona, of course.

    Dec 20, 2006 11:52:32 PM

    Testarossa86
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    Reply to: elysium

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    elysium said:
    Quote:
    Rossi said:
    Not sure about the V12 though...



    Though a V10 starts making more and more sense..

    As mere BMWs and Audis have V10 engines and the Gallardo is starting to become a real threat, having a "smaller" engine might not be good for the "non-enthusiast" part of their buyer base. And especially with an upcoming V8 front-engined ferrari, they need to defend the extra price for the F430 successor with every means possible (as they can then command a higher price).

    Maybe a V8 is simply too common nowadays



    The Gallardo NEEDS its V10 to even keep up with the 430. Heavy has that car is with AWD it would have no chance if it didn't.

    Ferrari doesn't need a V10. Their V8 engines are just fine.

    Dec 21, 2006 2:35:44 AM

    SciFrog Offline
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    Rossi said:

    4.5-litre-V8 Dino
    5.0-litre-V12 F430 successor
    6.0-litre-V12 599/612
    6.5-litre-V12 Enzo successor

    That would be something.



    Bingo, perfect lineup, no V10, a higher positionned V12 F430 successor to beat the V10 Gallardo and the GT2, the Dino vs the R8 and 997TT.

    And that V12 F430, no less than 200k without options in the US, that will take some of the speculation out of the market. And higher production numbers for the Dino, combined with a high margin because of the F name, F is going to make a lot of money.

    Vas y Jeannot, tu peux le faire!

    Dec 21, 2006 8:17:28 AM

    assman!!!
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    Reply to: vinnie

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    I much prefer the 512 TR

    Dec 21, 2006 9:58:01 AM

    zzbobaA
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    Reply to: assman!!!

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    assman!!! said:
    I much prefer the 512 TR




    Then you should get one.

    Dec 21, 2006 11:11:14 AM

    assman!!!
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    Reply to: zzbobaA

    Re: Update on Ferrari plans

    Quote:
    zzboba said:
    Quote:
    assman!!! said:
    I much prefer the 512 TR





    Then you should get one.



     
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