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) Speaking in terms of "safe, sane but spirited" street and highway driving, my current 333hp 04M3 is about equal in perf to my 997S. A V8M3 has got to be a freeking trip. 
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Even if the new M3 is faster or more practical than our 997 or 997S, it is not in the same class IMHO.
M3 has never been a dream car for me. I will not lose any sleep debating or thinking about getting an M3 (or any M cars) at all.
As far as I am concerned, every man who loves (and can afford) car should have a 911 in his garage always, or at least has the chance to own it once in his lifetime. Period.
M3 has never been a dream car for me. I will not lose any sleep debating or thinking about getting an M3 (or any M cars) at all.
As far as I am concerned, every man who loves (and can afford) car should have a 911 in his garage always, or at least has the chance to own it once in his lifetime. Period.
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
I feel the same way. My first real sports car was E46 M3 cab 2004. I wanted the porsche but its was about 30K more. The M3 was a nice car but it always felt to heavy, not nimble like my 997 C2S or my 997 GT3. I did get the SMG and I think it is a horrible transmission. Especially of the line. They even recalled and reprogrammed it because there were so many complaints. I wonder if the M3 V-8 would be able to keep up with my GT3 0-60 or 0-100mph. It is a V-8, which doesn't mean alot these days.
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Quote:
Targa Tim said:
Even if the new M3 is faster or more practical than our 997 or 997S, it is not in the same class IMHO.
M3 has never been a dream car for me. I will not lose any sleep debating or thinking about getting an M3 (or any M cars) at all.
As far as I am concerned, every man who loves (and can afford) car should have a 911 in his garage always, or at least has the chance to own it once in his lifetime. Period.
I have both M3 and 997S (and other "normal" German cars).
Anyway, The differences as far as I'm concerned are the Carrera is more for when you feel like actively driving a crazy fast car. The M3 is for driving casually, doing an airport run, when it's raining, whatever; and yet when you have to get some "business" done (i.e. passing or 100mph+) the M3 transforms into a respectible "track" car (if you will). I highly recommend owning both cars.
From this perspective the V8 is verrry intriguing to me.
Dec 19, 2006 10:54:12 PM
- waiting for PDK
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Dec 19, 2006 11:21:57 PM
- Targa Tim
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Dec 20, 2006 2:29:34 AM
- mvn1971
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Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
The reason I posted this was I did see the new E90 M3 Coupe. It was disguised but it was defnitely a BMW and it wasn't the the coupe. Dual exhaust, fat rear wheels. I see alot of E46 M3 and there always wanting to challenge you in your porsche. Especially now that they are relatively affordable for most people. They are quick cars, I've owned one. But no they donot compare to porsches. This car will be available early spring. : 
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Quote:Well said!
Targa Tim said:
Even if the new M3 is faster or more practical than our 997 or 997S, it is not in the same class IMHO.
M3 has never been a dream car for me. I will not lose any sleep debating or thinking about getting an M3 (or any M cars) at all.
As far as I am concerned, every man who loves (and can afford) car should have a 911 in his garage always, or at least has the chance to own it once in his lifetime. Period.
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
With the new 335I coupe weighing in at 3600 pounds, I would expect the new M3 to weigh about the same. My former 03 M3 was a nice commuter car, but (at 3400 pounds) was too heavy to ever feel like a "sports car". On paper (ie. magazine tests) the new M3 will likely perform as well as a 997S, but the driving enjoyment will not be the same.
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Quote:
deddie said:
...On paper (ie. magazine tests) the new M3 will likely perform as well as a 997S, but the driving enjoyment will not be the same.
True, but the good news is that a new M3 with 425hp V8 will base @ only around $50K - $55K, which should serve to put a bit of a fire under Porsche's keester ... this kind of competition is a GOOD thing...maybe direct injection for '08 Porsche 997's to really kick it up a notch?
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
It is funny. More than half of you will not even drive these cars above speed limits so what does it matter if it is a real sports car or not. M3 is a overall great performer which should be applaused and given respect. Altough my point of view depends on appreciation of good driving machines whether it is high-rev 4 cylinder japanese fun toy, a car based on an entry level BMW (by he way it is not) or American muscle. You can et the Porsche badges for cheap these days so there goes your marque image.
Dec 20, 2006 6:57:42 AM
- temm
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Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Quote:
waiting for PDK said:
I love these threads about a car nobody has driven yet. (See also any R8 thread.)
How does the Millenium Falcon compare to the Enterprise?
I think the latest edition of the Enterprise, NCC-1701E, has the Falcon beaten by lightyears
I agree with Jeannot, E92 M3 vs 997 is going to be the Z06 vs 997 for 2007
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Quote:
Queram said:
It is funny. More than half of you will not even drive these cars above speed limits so what does it matter if it is a real sports car or not. M3 is a overall great performer which should be applaused and given respect. Altough my point of view depends on appreciation of good driving machines whether it is high-rev 4 cylinder japanese fun toy, a car based on an entry level BMW (by he way it is not) or American muscle. You can et the Porsche badges for cheap these days so there goes your marque image.
From what you wrote, I guess you have never driven on a track before. I bet you that most writers on this forum have driven their 911 over the speed limit. We just don't want to get a ticket.
It has nothing to do with marque image, or straight line acceleration. It is the overall driving experience in a 911 on the track at your driving skill limit (not the 911 limit as most of us won't reach that) that makes you appreciate why we are paying so much for our 911.
If it is the Porsche badge on your C4S that you appreciate, I'll afraid you bought the wrong car.
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Quote:
Targa Tim said:Quote:
Queram said:
It is funny. More than half of you will not even drive these cars above speed limits so what does it matter if it is a real sports car or not. M3 is a overall great performer which should be applaused and given respect. Altough my point of view depends on appreciation of good driving machines whether it is high-rev 4 cylinder japanese fun toy, a car based on an entry level BMW (by he way it is not) or American muscle. You can et the Porsche badges for cheap these days so there goes your marque image.
From what you wrote, I guess you have never driven on a track before. I bet you that most writers on this forum have driven their 911 over the speed limit. We just don't want to get a ticket.
It has nothing to do with marque image, or straight line acceleration. It is the overall driving experience in a 911 on the track at your driving skill limit (not the 911 limit as most of us won't reach that) that makes you appreciate why we are paying so much for our 911.
If it is the Porsche badge on your C4S that you appreciate, I'll afraid you bought the wrong car.
Well I am not sure what to say to you my friend. I am opposing buying a car for the badge in my post and you are saying I bought the wrong car if you bought it for the badge. If you read the whole thread you understand what I am opposing.
I get a chance to drive on a track every once in a while since we do not have many. My daily commute is very suitable to drive this car for what it is built for and I would straight bought a C2S with sport suspension or GT3 if I bought it to be a weekend toy. heck I do not even need these to enjoy track driving, how fortunate for me if I can afford one to be a track toy.
Exceeding speed on a straight is very different than exploring these cars other vertues. You may be tracking your car so why get offensed from what I said it is clearly not directing to you. However if you are not a pro on track and given the track is also favoring you may get you ass handed to you by a S2000 or M3 easily.
For the last word, I am an enthusiast, I am not a Porsche enthusiast. I do not favor any brands particularly. That changes my point of view from some of us on these boards. Anyways I think some understood what I tried to say.
PS: If you really try to understand me, you'll see that I only said that, what matters for some that only buy for the image. What you told me in your reply to me should be directed to some others but not me.
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
I think the comparison will be similar to that of E46 M3 vs 996 Carrera... New M3 might be able to keep up or even pull harder in a straight line, but I'd rather have the 997C2S which is better overall than in just a few places...
If BMW made the E90 M3 better than the E46 M3 "CSL" then they could have a sure winner on their hands, but based on the latest M5/M6 I'm not so sure...
Did you see the Top Gear episode where the 997 went against the M6 on the same stretch of country roads? The 997 was quicker than the M6...
If BMW made the E90 M3 better than the E46 M3 "CSL" then they could have a sure winner on their hands, but based on the latest M5/M6 I'm not so sure...
Did you see the Top Gear episode where the 997 went against the M6 on the same stretch of country roads? The 997 was quicker than the M6...
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
I'm a long time bmw fan. The new E90-92 chassis are larger, more comfortable, and have superior rear suspension than their E46 and E36 forerunners.
However, these cars have morphed into somewhat nimble GT cars. They are large and heavy, but pack a wallop. The new M3 will turn fast laps at your local track due to its power and great suspension architecture, but they will understeer heavily, and notable suspension and brake modifications will be needed to complete track days.
In the end, it will not be as fun or nimble, and will be faster on track only for novices, who drive like crap in the corners and then floor it down the straights. For reasonably skilled drivers, the 997 will be a superior car on track and more fun on the street even if you don't take the gold metal in the street drag racing olympics.
However, these cars have morphed into somewhat nimble GT cars. They are large and heavy, but pack a wallop. The new M3 will turn fast laps at your local track due to its power and great suspension architecture, but they will understeer heavily, and notable suspension and brake modifications will be needed to complete track days.
In the end, it will not be as fun or nimble, and will be faster on track only for novices, who drive like crap in the corners and then floor it down the straights. For reasonably skilled drivers, the 997 will be a superior car on track and more fun on the street even if you don't take the gold metal in the street drag racing olympics.
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Some of this M3 vs. 997/S discussion is crazy.
They're different, what you lose in specialized racing situations you gain in comfort and roomyness in the M3.
Normal, boarderline-crazy spirited street driving (when no other motorists are put at risk of course ) is gonna be about the same with a different "feel" to each car.
What's nice is when in a low-traffic-volume situation I see an M3 (new or old) I always give the guy a wave or a nod because we both respect eachother's car and enthusiasm for cars (who knows? the M3 driver might have a Carerra in his garage).
Both ballsy German cars with a true Autobahn spirit.
They're different, what you lose in specialized racing situations you gain in comfort and roomyness in the M3.
Normal, boarderline-crazy spirited street driving (when no other motorists are put at risk of course
) is gonna be about the same with a different "feel" to each car.What's nice is when in a low-traffic-volume situation I see an M3 (new or old) I always give the guy a wave or a nod because we both respect eachother's car and enthusiasm for cars (who knows? the M3 driver might have a Carerra in his garage).
Both ballsy German cars with a true Autobahn spirit.
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Quote:
Queram said:Quote:
Targa Tim said:Quote:
Queram said:
It is funny. More than half of you will not even drive these cars above speed limits so what does it matter if it is a real sports car or not. M3 is a overall great performer which should be applaused and given respect. Altough my point of view depends on appreciation of good driving machines whether it is high-rev 4 cylinder japanese fun toy, a car based on an entry level BMW (by he way it is not) or American muscle. You can et the Porsche badges for cheap these days so there goes your marque image.
From what you wrote, I guess you have never driven on a track before. I bet you that most writers on this forum have driven their 911 over the speed limit. We just don't want to get a ticket.
It has nothing to do with marque image, or straight line acceleration. It is the overall driving experience in a 911 on the track at your driving skill limit (not the 911 limit as most of us won't reach that) that makes you appreciate why we are paying so much for our 911.
If it is the Porsche badge on your C4S that you appreciate, I'll afraid you bought the wrong car.
Well I am not sure what to say to you my friend. I am opposing buying a car for the badge in my post and you are saying I bought the wrong car if you bought it for the badge. If you read the whole thread you understand what I am opposing.
I get a chance to drive on a track every once in a while since we do not have many. My daily commute is very suitable to drive this car for what it is built for and I would straight bought a C2S with sport suspension or GT3 if I bought it to be a weekend toy. heck I do not even need these to enjoy track driving, how fortunate for me if I can afford one to be a track toy.
Exceeding speed on a straight is very different than exploring these cars other vertues. You may be tracking your car so why get offensed from what I said it is clearly not directing to you. However if you are not a pro on track and given the track is also favoring you may get you ass handed to you by a S2000 or M3 easily.
For the last word, I am an enthusiast, I am not a Porsche enthusiast. I do not favor any brands particularly. That changes my point of view from some of us on these boards. Anyways I think some understood what I tried to say.
PS: If you really try to understand me, you'll see that I only said that, what matters for some that only buy for the image. What you told me in your reply to me should be directed to some others but not me.
Hi Queram,
Looks like I may have mis-understood your post.
My apology to you. Enjoy your C4S in good health.
Dec 20, 2006 6:41:53 PM
- bluelines
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Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
Personally, I don't like where BMW went with the e46 and I don't think I like where they are going with the e92.
The e36 (especially euro ROW) was a lightweight beast that handled like glue. My friend sadly just sold his e36 track car (aftermarket exhaust, clutch, suspension -66mm, headers, intake, weight reduction hood, body stripping, race seats etc...) and that car was a thoroughbred (little under 3000lbs!!). Truly in the tradition of the king (e30). The e46, which was juiced up with more power and better aesthetics, fell flat (imo) in terms of driving feel, probably due to its piggish 3400+ lbs).
Rumor is the e92 will weight in approx 200+lbs heavier than the outgoing 46. Power is no substitute for extra baggage. Cruising around near 3700 lbs harkens poorly to the 2700 pound grandfater e30. They're compromised the M badge too much with luxury and straightline performance, forgetting what it trully stands for.
Too many car manufacturers are trying to circumvent physics with technology (racing slicks, magnetic suspensions, e-diffs, fancy trannies). There is no substitute for weight !! (not just Porsche)
The e36 (especially euro ROW) was a lightweight beast that handled like glue. My friend sadly just sold his e36 track car (aftermarket exhaust, clutch, suspension -66mm, headers, intake, weight reduction hood, body stripping, race seats etc...) and that car was a thoroughbred (little under 3000lbs!!). Truly in the tradition of the king (e30). The e46, which was juiced up with more power and better aesthetics, fell flat (imo) in terms of driving feel, probably due to its piggish 3400+ lbs).
Rumor is the e92 will weight in approx 200+lbs heavier than the outgoing 46. Power is no substitute for extra baggage. Cruising around near 3700 lbs harkens poorly to the 2700 pound grandfater e30. They're compromised the M badge too much with luxury and straightline performance, forgetting what it trully stands for.
Too many car manufacturers are trying to circumvent physics with technology (racing slicks, magnetic suspensions, e-diffs, fancy trannies). There is no substitute for weight !! (not just Porsche
)
Re: New V-8 E90 M3 vs. 997
The lightweight M3 CSL with its 7.50 Ring time is faster than most Porsches. It also seems to have a strong endorsement from a man who tests all the best cars at the Ring.
If money and/or space is an issue the CSL is a viable alternative to a GT3.
CSL Horst von Saurma's favourite
Nov 4, '27, 12:00 AM
'' Ouite fun to hear accually. I had a chat with him today regarding Sport Autos Nurburgring Hardcore event. As we spoke we came in to diffrent cars, new GT3 as well RS when i mentioned i will be entering the Hardcore in my CSL he just said loud Ahhh...... my favourite car. That says a lot, and somthing tells me he is not saying this about all cars he drives there.''
feed://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/ContentIslands/5_rss20.xml
If money and/or space is an issue the CSL is a viable alternative to a GT3.
CSL Horst von Saurma's favourite
Nov 4, '27, 12:00 AM
'' Ouite fun to hear accually. I had a chat with him today regarding Sport Autos Nurburgring Hardcore event. As we spoke we came in to diffrent cars, new GT3 as well RS when i mentioned i will be entering the Hardcore in my CSL he just said loud Ahhh...... my favourite car. That says a lot, and somthing tells me he is not saying this about all cars he drives there.''
feed://www.bm3w.co.uk/ubbthreads/ContentIslands/5_rss20.xml
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