Crown
Board: Other Sports Cars
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Sep 12, 2002 2:16:35 AM
-
Ron (Houston)
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
- Posts: 8812, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
- Reply to: william
Re: My new car arrived
Congrats!!
That's a car that I really want. I was actually talking to my local BMW dealer about a 4.6is and incidently he said they have one in the show room Saphaire Black Metalic. He said they're very rear and they have had only 8 of them this year. The problem is that I really want the Imola Red one and they ain't got one now. This would hopefully replace our, no offense, crapy ML.
William,
Would you post your impression on the beauty that you just got please.
That's a car that I really want. I was actually talking to my local BMW dealer about a 4.6is and incidently he said they have one in the show room Saphaire Black Metalic. He said they're very rear and they have had only 8 of them this year. The problem is that I really want the Imola Red one and they ain't got one now. This would hopefully replace our, no offense, crapy ML.
William,
Would you post your impression on the beauty that you just got please.
Sep 12, 2002 2:20:38 AM
-
Ron (Houston)
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
- Posts: 8812, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
-
Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: Driving impression...
First off, I should compare to my ML500 and the X5 4.4 which I previously owned. The Turbo and the X5 is really a totally different car.
The major difference between the 4.6is and the 4.4 which I noticed right away to the lighten steering system. Yes it is 'much lighter' than the ML and the 4.4i. I thought they changed the rack and pinon to an recirculating ball. But the spec said is still the rack and pinon...
I was quite confuse by why BMW would make a sportier SUV with a lighten steering. In fact, after I took delivery of the car, i drove into the service department and ask them to check it for me. They told me it is normal for the 4.6 be abit lighter. I guess i should do more research on it. The downside is that you don't get much feedback, but the steering feel is still very good.
Second different is the tiptronic, the downshift and upshift is oppsite to my 4.4i.. That was quite confusing too.. Why? The downshift used to move the shifter down and the 4.6 is up. But thats just need getting used to.
Handling wise is a best point of the car. I bought the car to some twisty moutain roads around the country side. It has very little roll and the best part is... The car is actually oversteer bias!! I have been able to execute some 4 wheel drift around some hairpin, which my old 4.4 will push understeer helplessly. I still can't imagine i was driving a SUV. Power output is so responsive. Just a small tap on the throttle and the car power out the corner. The car have 210miles on it now and the sidewall of the tires starting to wear :P The suspension also tuned up abit, but the ride quality of the car is still consider comfortable, actually more comfortable than my ML. I think the 20inch wheels add some road noise... thats about it.
The engine according to what I know is that it was an Alpina design which BMW bought. I was quite skeptical at first by how little displacement they increased with such big difference in performance number. But in real life, the car felt alot more powerful. Even tho the engine is based on the 4.4, they are actually quite different. Partly I suspect is the gear ratio different. The first time you rev it up to redline (which I am not suppose to :P) I can feel the real power kick in around 4 to 6K rpm. It is a higher rev engine then the 4.4i which the power dies down around 5000rpm. To compare to the ML55, the 5.5L engine seem to have more low-end torque where as the 4.6 have abit more momentum at high rpm. I should say the ML55 engine felt explosive where the X5 4.6 felt quick.
The transmission is also faster respond. It really give you a very sporty feel when push hard.
When I was driving back home tonight in the highway, i wanted to test the top end of the car in G.B. Highway. Well, at 140mph on the speedo, the RPM is at 4000 rpm in forth gear. I can't imagine what it will be like when I unleash the full potential of the car... scary fast for a SUV.
I think the only improvement for the 4.6 is the steering feel. But other than that. I can't find any SUV I love more
Let's hope the Cayenne will not take that away from the X5...
The major difference between the 4.6is and the 4.4 which I noticed right away to the lighten steering system. Yes it is 'much lighter' than the ML and the 4.4i. I thought they changed the rack and pinon to an recirculating ball. But the spec said is still the rack and pinon...
I was quite confuse by why BMW would make a sportier SUV with a lighten steering. In fact, after I took delivery of the car, i drove into the service department and ask them to check it for me. They told me it is normal for the 4.6 be abit lighter. I guess i should do more research on it. The downside is that you don't get much feedback, but the steering feel is still very good. Second different is the tiptronic, the downshift and upshift is oppsite to my 4.4i.. That was quite confusing too.. Why? The downshift used to move the shifter down and the 4.6 is up. But thats just need getting used to.
Handling wise is a best point of the car. I bought the car to some twisty moutain roads around the country side. It has very little roll and the best part is... The car is actually oversteer bias!! I have been able to execute some 4 wheel drift around some hairpin, which my old 4.4 will push understeer helplessly. I still can't imagine i was driving a SUV. Power output is so responsive. Just a small tap on the throttle and the car power out the corner. The car have 210miles on it now and the sidewall of the tires starting to wear :P The suspension also tuned up abit, but the ride quality of the car is still consider comfortable, actually more comfortable than my ML. I think the 20inch wheels add some road noise... thats about it.
The engine according to what I know is that it was an Alpina design which BMW bought. I was quite skeptical at first by how little displacement they increased with such big difference in performance number. But in real life, the car felt alot more powerful. Even tho the engine is based on the 4.4, they are actually quite different. Partly I suspect is the gear ratio different. The first time you rev it up to redline (which I am not suppose to :P) I can feel the real power kick in around 4 to 6K rpm. It is a higher rev engine then the 4.4i which the power dies down around 5000rpm. To compare to the ML55, the 5.5L engine seem to have more low-end torque where as the 4.6 have abit more momentum at high rpm. I should say the ML55 engine felt explosive where the X5 4.6 felt quick.
The transmission is also faster respond. It really give you a very sporty feel when push hard.
When I was driving back home tonight in the highway, i wanted to test the top end of the car in G.B. Highway. Well, at 140mph on the speedo, the RPM is at 4000 rpm in forth gear. I can't imagine what it will be like when I unleash the full potential of the car... scary fast for a SUV.
I think the only improvement for the 4.6 is the steering feel. But other than that. I can't find any SUV I love more
Let's hope the Cayenne will not take that away from the X5...
Re: pics
http://www.speeddrift.com/images/X546/CIMG0047.JPG
http://www.speeddrift.com/images/X546/CIMG0046.JPG
sorry about the bad quality....
http://www.speeddrift.com/images/X546/CIMG0046.JPG
sorry about the bad quality....
Re: Here is why
good question 
I was thinking about it, but one thing I concern more on a SUV is quality. I find the X5 4.6 is one of the best compromise between performance/luxury/comfort. Another thing about the Cayenne, which is subjective of course, is the physical apperence of the Cayenne Turbo. I really didn't like the look of it.
For Daily use, I would prefer a Mercedes, BMW or even VW with the new W12 engine. I somehow don't trust Porsche can make a complete SUV for road use, even VW help and did all the design. For performance technology and suspension, I can assume the Cayenne Turbo will be much sophicated than the 4.6. But then, that's not the objective for me to buy a SUV.
Similarly, if you want to buy a 4 door luxury car with good peformance, you will choose a E55 rather than a Porsche 4 door car with better peformance, because most likely he will not need that extra bit of sportiness on a sedan instead he will buy another 'sport car' of his choice.
How's your trip to NY?
I was thinking about it, but one thing I concern more on a SUV is quality. I find the X5 4.6 is one of the best compromise between performance/luxury/comfort. Another thing about the Cayenne, which is subjective of course, is the physical apperence of the Cayenne Turbo. I really didn't like the look of it.
For Daily use, I would prefer a Mercedes, BMW or even VW with the new W12 engine. I somehow don't trust Porsche can make a complete SUV for road use, even VW help and did all the design. For performance technology and suspension, I can assume the Cayenne Turbo will be much sophicated than the 4.6. But then, that's not the objective for me to buy a SUV.
Similarly, if you want to buy a 4 door luxury car with good peformance, you will choose a E55 rather than a Porsche 4 door car with better peformance, because most likely he will not need that extra bit of sportiness on a sedan instead he will buy another 'sport car' of his choice.
How's your trip to NY?
Sep 12, 2002 4:36:34 PM
- william
- Senior
-
- Loc: New York/Hong Kong , Hong Kong
- Posts: 670, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 9, 2002
-
Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: I like the Brabus
7.2L AMG engine... I called the California dealership and they told me the price and they are selling it for 145K US dollars !! For an SUV... 
I will wait until the Cayenne Turbo out and maybe I will end up with one instead Who knows... I really have to drive and see it in real life.
Yes, The 4.6is doesn't seem any faster than the ML55 in the staight away, especially the low-end torque range. But The handling, fit and finish of the car is really nice. I am going to be one of those crazy nuts this weekend and bring the car to the race track...
I will wait until the Cayenne Turbo out and maybe I will end up with one instead
Who knows... I really have to drive and see it in real life. Yes, The 4.6is doesn't seem any faster than the ML55 in the staight away, especially the low-end torque range. But The handling, fit and finish of the car is really nice. I am going to be one of those crazy nuts this weekend and bring the car to the race track...
Re: Here is why
william's right-- IMHO BMW invented the "sports" utility vehicle. i personally drive a X5 4.4i and it's thruout a nice car. great interieur, agressive appearance, good quality. and btw: due to the stiff X5 suspension, my carrera seems to be more comfortable 
and if we compare the X5 and the cayenne, we have to keep out the turbo. the 4.6is is the car that has to be beaten by the cayenne s. and that the porsche pricing is a lot lower than we all expected... maybe because porsche already knows who's gonna win this match
and for me (please, guys, don't take this to serious!!) the cayenne is a "VW customized by porsche"
and if we compare the X5 and the cayenne, we have to keep out the turbo. the 4.6is is the car that has to be beaten by the cayenne s. and that the porsche pricing is a lot lower than we all expected... maybe because porsche already knows who's gonna win this match
and for me (please, guys, don't take this to serious!!) the cayenne is a "VW customized by porsche"
Sep 13, 2002 11:55:31 AM
-
Ron (Houston)
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
- Posts: 8812, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
-
Reply to:
zzboba
Re: What I concern the most,
Is what BMW's plan to compete with the Cayenne Turbo, I personally assume BMW will be smart enough to keep the X5 chassis as it is now. There are no reason to redesign the whole chassis since its so competent. Maybe minor design and a "new 500HP SMG" in the X5 to compete. Then I will be pissed 
The good thing is i haven't heard anything yet, actually I think BMW will still keep the 4.6is as little production as possible and subtle. In 2 yrs, Minor facelift and use the 4.6is to compete with the S.
The main reason I like about the X5 is the subtle looks i guess. One guy walked out a X5 4.4 and he said " The 3.0 look quite nice also) Another encouter with a ML55, he also thought it was an inline 6.. Don't you just love it.
The good thing is i haven't heard anything yet, actually I think BMW will still keep the 4.6is as little production as possible and subtle. In 2 yrs, Minor facelift and use the 4.6is to compete with the S.
The main reason I like about the X5 is the subtle looks i guess. One guy walked out a X5 4.4 and he said " The 3.0 look quite nice also)
Another encouter with a ML55, he also thought it was an inline 6.. Don't you just love it. 
Sep 13, 2002 11:27:50 PM
- william
- Senior
-
- Loc: New York/Hong Kong , Hong Kong
- Posts: 670, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 9, 2002
-
Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Sep 14, 2002 1:19:58 AM
-
Ron (Houston)
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
- Posts: 8812, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
- Reply to: william
Sep 14, 2002 3:10:10 AM
- JayT
- Newbie
-
- Loc: SC, USA
- Posts: 44, Gallery
- Registered on: Sep 13, 2002
-
Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: What I concern the most,
Having lived with an X-5 for 18 months ( it is my first BMW) all I can say is that it is will be my last BMW. Between the recalls, poor dealer service (all the dealers in DC area, and corp. BMW's response) and lack of quality I have been very disapointed. The drive train is the best thing about it, but while the design appears to be first rate the execution is GM like. Changing from the other cars to the X-5 shows to me BMW did miss the mark, in particular the steering. I am looking forward to Porsche's attempt.
Re: wait a minute
There was a V12 ML from Brabus, apparently they don't offer one anymore, at least not officially.
But this engine doesn't have ANYTHING to do with AMG.
AMG doesn't work with Tuners, there is no development cooperation between AMG and Brabus.
I know some dealers, especially outside Germany, tell customers little stories about this and that but there is definfetely NO cooperation between Mercedes/AMG and Tuners.
There is also NO cooperation whatsover between Porsche and Tuners, some Tuners are even on Porsche's "black list".
Some Mercedes dealers sell Brabus items and even Brabus cars but this is more something Mercedes tolerates but this is no official policy.
But this engine doesn't have ANYTHING to do with AMG.
AMG doesn't work with Tuners, there is no development cooperation between AMG and Brabus.
I know some dealers, especially outside Germany, tell customers little stories about this and that but there is definfetely NO cooperation between Mercedes/AMG and Tuners.
There is also NO cooperation whatsover between Porsche and Tuners, some Tuners are even on Porsche's "black list".
Some Mercedes dealers sell Brabus items and even Brabus cars but this is more something Mercedes tolerates but this is no official policy.
Re: as the matter of fact
I had a small encouter with a ML55 in the highway... In full accrelation, the ML55 was about 1 car lenght ahead of me. The 5.5L engine is definelty quicker than the 4.6is in the staight away.
I had a crazy idea, if the X5 actually come with the 5.5L engine. It will be a blast.
As a family car for kids like yourself, I would love to have the ML55..
I had a crazy idea, if the X5 actually come with the 5.5L engine. It will be a blast.
As a family car for kids like yourself, I would love to have the ML55..
Re: What I concern the most,
Out of all the BMW I ever owned, I only liked the X5. Most other BMW I was really disappointed, Mercedes are far aheard in term of quality devolopment. Even in Germany (as RC will say The BMW is not as popular as Mercedes or even VW.
I actually never consider a BMW until the X5, i should say the only BMW I will ever owned.
A small question tho, which SUV would you choose right now that you would consider the most complete?
The BMW is not as popular as Mercedes or even VW. I actually never consider a BMW until the X5, i should say the only BMW I will ever owned.
A small question tho, which SUV would you choose right now that you would consider the most complete?
BMW X5 in heavy off-road conditions
William, there's another interesting aspect. I tested a X5 in heavy off-road conditions and I have to admit that I was really impressed, especially when it comes to traction. I also tested a ML55, which does not even come close to the abilities of the X5. The X5 is unbelievable as long as the clearance is not the problem.
Sep 14, 2002 1:58:10 PM
-
Ron (Houston)
- Rennteam Moderator
-
- Loc: Houston, TX , United States
- Posts: 8812, Gallery
- Registered on: Apr 10, 2002
-
Reply to:
CR
Sep 14, 2002 5:17:40 PM
-
RC
- Rennteam Administrator
-
- Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
- Posts: 59590, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
-
Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: BMW X5 in heavy off-road conditions
The guy on the X5's steering wheel is CR himself...personally.
I still wonder how he did that because every comparison test between the X5 and ML I read, said that the X5 doesn't even come close to the ML's offroad capabilities. And CR seems to have a completely different experience.
I also have been to the mountains last winter and we drove with several SUVs, including a BMW X5 to a dog sled race up in the mountains. There was big snow near our camp and the only car which had no problems to get out the parking lot was our ML55. The other SUVs, including two Mitsubishi Pajero, one Toyota Landcruiser and an old Cherokee couldn't get out the parking lot. They had to call a Tractor.
I simply "burned" my way through the snow, the power on the ML55 is unbelievable. All cars had winter tires (incl. our ML), the Landcruiser had all-weather tires (actually heavy terrain tires).
You should have seen the faces of these guys.
BTW, William: BMW's reputation in Germany is pretty good.
Especially people in the 30s and 40s drive BMW, it is considered to be a "dynamic" and luxurious car.
VW has a worse reputation and Mercedes has a good reputation but it depends on the age.
I still wonder how he did that because every comparison test between the X5 and ML I read, said that the X5 doesn't even come close to the ML's offroad capabilities. And CR seems to have a completely different experience.
I also have been to the mountains last winter and we drove with several SUVs, including a BMW X5 to a dog sled race up in the mountains. There was big snow near our camp and the only car which had no problems to get out the parking lot was our ML55. The other SUVs, including two Mitsubishi Pajero, one Toyota Landcruiser and an old Cherokee couldn't get out the parking lot. They had to call a Tractor.
I simply "burned" my way through the snow, the power on the ML55 is unbelievable.
All cars had winter tires (incl. our ML), the Landcruiser had all-weather tires (actually heavy terrain tires).You should have seen the faces of these guys.
BTW, William: BMW's reputation in Germany is pretty good.
Especially people in the 30s and 40s drive BMW, it is considered to be a "dynamic" and luxurious car.
VW has a worse reputation and Mercedes has a good reputation but it depends on the age.
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
