Crown

Board: Porsche - Cayenne Language: English Region: Worldwide Share/Save/Bookmark Close

Forum - Thread

    Apr 14, 2004 11:24:09 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002

    When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    I observed a pretty interesting shifting behavior on my Cayenne Turbo: the auto tranny (auto mode, PSM on) upshifts at around 6700-6800 rpm but the red line on the speedo already starts at 6400.
    Another interesting thing: I sometimes get up to 0.7-0.75 bar boost pressure on my boost pressure gauge, most of the time it is 0.6 bar flat.

    I'd like to hear about your experiences with the Cayenne Turbo. Just curious.

    Apr 14, 2004 11:43:28 PM

    Raz (NC)
    Co-Pilot
    Raz (NC)
    Loc:
    Posts: 175, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 27, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    RC - Shouldn't you be keeping it under 4200RPM for break-in?

    Apr 15, 2004 12:53:03 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Raz (NC)

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Quote:
    Raz (NC) said:
    RC - Shouldn't you be keeping it under 4200RPM for break-in?



    There is no break-in for german cars, don't ask me why.
    I wonder why there is a break-in regulation for other countries. Strange.

    Apr 15, 2004 2:18:21 PM

    Raz (NC)
    Co-Pilot
    Raz (NC)
    Loc:
    Posts: 175, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 27, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Are you serious?!?! I was planning on breaking in the Cayenne TT according to the 2,000 mi requirements set in the manual, but given your statements I'm not so sure

    I'll go test the redline upshift on my CT today and post my findings.

    Apr 15, 2004 4:51:34 PM

    Raz (NC)
    Co-Pilot
    Raz (NC)
    Loc:
    Posts: 175, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 27, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    I took the CT up to redline a couple of times today, I made sure the engine was warm before trying the runs.

    The results? Upshifting from 2nd - 3rd both times occurred around 6400RPM some of the time and at 6600RPM other times. I couldn't get it to upshift at 6700 - 6800RPM, but then again I only tried a couple of times as I'm still wary of doing redline tests on a car with < 200 miles on it

    Boost pressure was also at around .6 bar I believe, I will have to double check as I was trying to pay attention to the road instead of the gauges

    I've got access to another Cayenne Turbo, I will try it on that car next if you would like another point of comparison.

    Apr 15, 2004 6:07:01 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Raz (NC)

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Quote:
    Raz (NC) said:
    Are you serious?!?! I was planning on breaking in the Cayenne TT according to the 2,000 mi requirements set in the manual, but given your statements I'm not so sure

    I'll go test the redline upshift on my CT today and post my findings.



    Caution: I know that the US models require a brake-in according to the owner's manual. I still don't understand why US Cayennes have to be broken-in and german Cayennes not.
    Strange indeed.
    Yes, I'd be very interested to learn how other Cayenne Turbos are upshifting, thanks.

    Apr 15, 2004 6:55:36 PM

    CFM
    Rennteam Moderator
    CF
    Loc: Florida , United States
    Posts: 1113, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 30, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    6800 rpm.

    Apr 15, 2004 7:01:02 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: CFM

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    6800 rpm.



    Isn't it strange that the upshift happens at 6800 rpm, 400 rpm over the red line on the speedo?

    Apr 15, 2004 8:45:05 PM

    Raz (NC)
    Co-Pilot
    Raz (NC)
    Loc:
    Posts: 175, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 27, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    I know that on BMWs the redline varies depending on the gear you're in, could that be the case with the Cayenne?

    What gear are you in when you are hitting 6800RPM?

    Apr 15, 2004 8:49:54 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Raz (NC)

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Quote:
    Raz (NC) said:
    I know that on BMWs the redline varies depending on the gear you're in, could that be the case with the Cayenne?

    What gear are you in when you are hitting 6800RPM?



    It happens in all gears as far as I remember and it is the standard automatic tranny setting with PSM activated.
    Maybe Porsche just wanted to save money on the rev gauge and installed the same part on all 3 Cayenne?!

    Apr 15, 2004 9:19:41 PM

    GM AustinM
    Rennteam Moderator
    GM Austin
    Loc: Texas , United States
    Posts: 3530, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 10, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    I think the gauge redline is usually set with a margin of error in mind. Drivers are just human after all. The DME mapping for automatic transmission shifts may allow for a higher RPM because driver error is taken out of the equation. I would also assume there is some rev limiter built in that keeps you from floating the valves. I wonder what that RPM is?

    Apr 15, 2004 10:28:25 PM

    TopherV
    Veteran
    TopherV
    Loc: Orange County, Southern California
    Posts: 1121, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 29, 2003
    Reply to: GM AustinM

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Thats some strange stuff, maybe thats a failsafe (6400) for people using the tiptronic to not over do it. Its redline is probably 6800, noone knows it but the computer ... ha there trying to trick you ... next time i go to newport imma ask the salesperson if a break-in period is necessary

    Apr 15, 2004 10:34:57 PM

    CFM
    Rennteam Moderator
    CF
    Loc: Florida , United States
    Posts: 1113, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 30, 2003
    Reply to: TopherV

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    I'm really starting to get annoyed by the way my CT shifts gears.
    It's always one gear to high!
    Something has to be done about this, otherwise who knows where it will lead.
    I don't give a flying F.... about the fuel consumption which I already know is the probable excuse from Porsche.

    Apr 16, 2004 1:04:43 AM

    GM AustinM
    Rennteam Moderator
    GM Austin
    Loc: Texas , United States
    Posts: 3530, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 10, 2002
    Reply to: CFM

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Quote:
    It's always one gear to high!




    Yes! At least one gear, sometimes more!

    Apr 16, 2004 1:34:31 AM

    Raz (NC)
    Co-Pilot
    Raz (NC)
    Loc:
    Posts: 175, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 27, 2002
    Reply to: GM AustinM

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    I agree - it is the most annoying thing. Especially being used to Ferrari's F1 system, it makes me even more annoyed that Porsche has stuck with a sluggish and poorly mapped automatic in their top of the line SUV.

    Apr 16, 2004 3:33:26 AM

    jdrive
    Newbie
    jdrive
    Loc:
    Posts: 44, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 23, 2004
    Reply to: Raz (NC)

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    We really do need a remap here. I'm getting sore thumbs .

    I also wondered about the redline issue. Then I decided not to worry about it anymore and now I feel free! Ignorance may indeed be bliss....

    As for break-in, the only thing I do is pay a bit more attention to a warm up before getting on it. Other than that, I subscribe to the tighter seal theory of life and blast away. A half-dozen cars since I first read about it and it hasn't been a problem yet (and most times I add more boost in one form or another from the get-go).....

    Apr 16, 2004 4:10:04 AM

    Raz (NC)
    Co-Pilot
    Raz (NC)
    Loc:
    Posts: 175, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 27, 2002
    Reply to: jdrive

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    What we need is a sequential manual system, I'm tired of hitting the tiptronic downshift buttons and having to count the seconds before it actually downshifts. I pretty much never use the tiptronic buttons because of that, it makes me appreciate Ferrari's F1 and BMW's SMG so much more. I can't wait until those types of systems replace automatics entirely

    Apr 16, 2004 1:42:55 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: Raz (NC)

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    I found an even more strange thing: on a picture in the official german sales brochure showing the speedo cluster of the Cayenne Turbo, the red line starts at 6600 rpm and not at 6400 as on my car. Now I'm really wondering...

    Apr 16, 2004 1:46:18 PM

    GM AustinM
    Rennteam Moderator
    GM Austin
    Loc: Texas , United States
    Posts: 3530, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 10, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    You must have the low horsepower version!

    No! Just kidding!

    Apr 16, 2004 3:07:12 PM

    McDee
    Newbie
    McDee
    Loc: 5 Lakes Area Germany
    Posts: 4, Gallery
    Registered on: Nov 18, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Hey RC,

    just wondering that you are thinking there is is no break in period for german cays.
    Look at page 10 in Cayenne Betriebsanleitung.
    Hinweise für die Einfahrzeit. Sie sollten während der ersten 3000 km: -bla -bla -bla -Hohe Drehzahlen, insbesondere bei kaltem Motor, vermeiden.
    This means, in my opinion: Break in Period for the first 3000 km!!!
    Do you have a different Owners manual?????
    I have the Manual from my Dealer, it is an official Owners Manual for Cayenne S and Cayenne Turbo.
    ?????

    McDee

    Apr 16, 2004 7:12:30 PM

    Raz (NC)
    Co-Pilot
    Raz (NC)
    Loc:
    Posts: 175, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 27, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    It could just be variations in the tachometer. I know that's been a problem on the 350Z, but I'm sure if you hooked all of our cars up to a dyno you would find that they redline at the same point.

    As far as the sales brochure being incorrect, it could just be that the mockup they used to take those photographs with wasn't entirely accurate.

    Apr 16, 2004 7:53:51 PM

    DEETZ
    Senior
    DEETZ
    Loc: Cambridge, MA
    Posts: 559, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 3, 2004
    Reply to: Raz (NC)

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    guys, even the S do the same, I tried it in the morning and the same thing

    Apr 16, 2004 8:01:38 PM

    Matt C
    Veteran
    Matt C
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1092, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 28, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Quote:
    RC said:
    I found an even more strange thing: on a picture in the official german sales brochure showing the speedo cluster of the Cayenne Turbo, the red line starts at 6600 rpm and not at 6400 as on my car. Now I'm really wondering...



    I have an early 2003 "S" and the redline starts at 6600 rpm.
    Maybe they have changed it later on.

    Apr 17, 2004 8:59:18 PM

    CFM
    Rennteam Moderator
    CF
    Loc: Florida , United States
    Posts: 1113, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 30, 2003
    Reply to: Matt C

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Such a nice car except for the gearbox/shiftprogram.
    Looks like it's going.
    Going once....going twice....
    Decision on monday.

    Porsche probably lost a customer!!!!!

    Apr 18, 2004 4:49:04 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: McDee

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Quote:
    McDee said:
    Hey RC,

    just wondering that you are thinking there is is no break in period for german cays.
    Look at page 10 in Cayenne Betriebsanleitung.
    Hinweise für die Einfahrzeit. Sie sollten während der ersten 3000 km: -bla -bla -bla -Hohe Drehzahlen, insbesondere bei kaltem Motor, vermeiden.
    This means, in my opinion: Break in Period for the first 3000 km!!!




    I'm not sure if German is your mother language or not but "vermeiden" means "to avoid". This doesn't mean you're not allowed to do it. And there is no rpm limit like in other countries.
    And "insbesondere bei kaltem Motor" means "especially when the engine is cold".

    As soon as the oil temperature hits around 80-90* C, you're free to revv the Cayenne as you wish. Of course you shouldn't drive at maximum rpm all the time, especially when it is hot outside, when the air is "thin" or when towing. But I guess there is little chance of that right now in Germany.

    You should check the "older" german Porsche owner manuals where you weren't allowed to pass a certain rpm (I think it was 4200 rpm as far as I remember) and you weren't allowed to use the kickdown during the break-in period.

    I drove my Cayenne Turbo pretty slowly for the first 200 km mainly because of the tires and the brakes.
    The tires still need a break-in and brake pads/discs too.

    And to end the whole story: I talked to my mechanic about the owner brochure because I was wondering that there is no more rpm limit anymore. He told me that they've been told during a training at the factory that no real break-in period is necessary anymore on the Cayenne. But of course this is valid for german cars only, I can't say anything about ROW or US/Canada Cayenne.

    Apr 18, 2004 4:59:59 AM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
    Posts: 59579, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 26, 2002
    Reply to: CFM

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    Quote:
    CF said:
    Such a nice car except for the gearbox/shiftprogram.
    Looks like it's going.
    Going once....going twice....
    Decision on monday.

    Porsche probably lost a customer!!!!!



    C'mon, Christian...you can't be serious. I'm sure there is a solution for the shifting/throttle response problem. If they offer a solution in the US, there should be one available for Europe too. I'll post soon as detailled owner report about the Cayenne Turbo and the shifting/throttle response is actually the only bad thing on the Cayenne. I just wonder why Porsche didn't fix it yet, they had almost two years to do it right. Yesterday, I drove our ML55 again and I thought I'm driving a sportscar in comparison with the Cayenne Turbo: throttle/shifting response is perfect, I just have to touch the throttle a little bit and the ML55 downshifts smoothly. When I lift the foot, it upshifts smoothly again. When I brake before a sharp turn, it downshifts smoothly and keeps the gear within the turn and even for a few seconds after that, then it smoothly upshifts again. Is it so difficult to get this setup for the Cayenne Turbo? They just have to adapt the throttle/shifting response from the PSM off setup, just with a better upshift and slightly smoother throttle response.

    I think they reason why there is no "fix" for Europe yet: nobody has actually made complaints. My dealer and my mechanic never heard of this problem until I mentioned it.
    The owner of my dealership even owns a Cayenne Turbo and he privately drives a GT3 and a GT2 and he didn't realize there is a problem with shifting/throttle response on the Cayenne. Before owning the Cayenne Turbo, I actually thought that there is some sort of mass paranoia in the US regarding shifting/throttle response (SORRY guys! ) because nobody here in Germany (incl. Jochen Albig) seemed to have heard about this problem. But after owning the Cayenne Turbo for a few days now and after 1000 km driving in it, there is DEFINETELY a serious problem regarding shifting/throttle response. For those owners who think there is nothing to complaint: turn the PSM off (don't worry, the Cayenne is still pretty safe on dry pavement) and judge by yourself. It is like turning a sheep into a wolf.

    Apr 18, 2004 11:42:44 AM

    Matt C
    Veteran
    Matt C
    Loc: Switzerland , Switzerland
    Posts: 1092, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 28, 2003
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    I agree with you that this shifting/throttle response issue is something they should resolve asap. However, I am afraid that keeping fuel consumption and emissions down will remain in a higher position in the priority list.

    But I do think that Porsche knows about it. The guy from the Cayenne project team I had contact with definitely knew what I was writing about. As regards the test drivers not knowing about it, they constantly push their test mules that hard over the test track that the car remains in the sportiest shifting pattern all the time and therefore behaves differently than ours which are stuck in heavy traffic most of the time. And this makes it probably less obvious that there's a problem.

    My hope is that you, RC, keep on annoying the right people so that a solution will become available.

    And you CF, you shouldn't give up that fast. The Cayenne is a fantastic car and I am sure, if you join RC and also start pulling the right strings, we'll get a solution soon.

    Apr 18, 2004 4:40:02 PM

    DEETZ
    Senior
    DEETZ
    Loc: Cambridge, MA
    Posts: 559, Gallery
    Registered on: Feb 3, 2004
    Reply to: Matt C

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    guys, is there actually a solution for US Cayenne owners for this problem? I am very interested, in city, I use D5 / D6 most of the time while I am only 40mph... and rpm was below 2k... this drives me crazy... and I hate using the tip, too lazy to click on it...

    Apr 19, 2004 2:59:25 AM

    GM AustinM
    Rennteam Moderator
    GM Austin
    Loc: Texas , United States
    Posts: 3530, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 10, 2002
    Reply to: DEETZ

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    There is an undocumented DME remap that may be helpful but is not a cure. Search this board for "Lurching" and you will find a good deal of information.

    Apr 19, 2004 8:56:26 AM

    rsv
    Co-Pilot
    rsv
    Loc:
    Posts: 180, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 7, 2002
    Reply to: RCA

    Re: When does your Cayenne Turbo upshift?

    In Antwort auf:
    RC said:
    In Antwort auf:
    McDee said:
    Hey RC,

    just wondering that you are thinking there is is no break in period for german cays.
    Look at page 10 in Cayenne Betriebsanleitung.
    Hinweise für die Einfahrzeit. Sie sollten während der ersten 3000 km: -bla -bla -bla -Hohe Drehzahlen, insbesondere bei kaltem Motor, vermeiden.
    This means, in my opinion: Break in Period for the first 3000 km!!!




    I'm not sure if German is your mother language or not but "vermeiden" means "to avoid". This doesn't mean you're not allowed to do it. And there is no rpm limit like in other countries.
    And "insbesondere bei kaltem Motor" means "especially when the engine is cold".
    ...




    hey christian!

    why do you think that mcdee doesn't speak german?
    ok - some people in germany still believe that bavarians don't speak german - but you should know better!

    @mcdee: bought your car at the "Porsche Center 5 Lakes", right?
     
    Edit

    Forum

    1. All 

    Boards

     
    Board Subject Last post Rating Views Replies
    Porsche Sticky SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II) 4/16/24 3:13 PM
    watt     		755190 1797
    Porsche Sticky Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos) 4/7/24 11:48 AM
    Boxster Coupe GTS     		431540 565
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021) 5/12/23 12:11 PM
    W8MM     		258867 288
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022 3/12/24 8:28 AM
    DJM48     		255889 323
    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
    RCA     		79881 45
    Porsche Sticky OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift 3/15/24 1:23 PM
    CGX car nut     		5263 50
    Porsche The moment I've been waiting for... 2/1/24 7:01 PM
    Pilot
     
     
     
     
     
    		 868909 1364
    Porsche 992 GT3 7/23/23 7:01 PM
    Grant     		802930 3868
    Porsche Welcome to the new Taycan Forum! 2/10/24 4:43 PM
    nberry     		384563 1526
    Porsche GT4RS 4/16/24 8:34 AM
    996FourEss     		382633 1445
    Others Tesla 2 the new thread 12/13/23 2:48 PM
    CGX car nut     		365876 2401
    Porsche Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design 7/3/23 12:30 PM
    Porker     		364476 797
    Ferrari Ferrari 812 Superfast 4/21/23 8:09 AM
    the-missile     		286338 550
    Porsche Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour 4/11/24 12:32 PM
    Ferdie     		284596 668
    Porsche Collected my 997 GTS today 10/19/23 7:06 PM
    CGX car nut
     
     
     
     
     
    		 258250 812
    Lambo Huracán EVO STO 7/30/23 6:59 PM
    mcdelaug     		235835 346
    Lotus Lotus Emira 6/25/23 2:53 PM
    Enmanuel     		223436 101
    Others Corvette C8 10/16/23 3:24 PM
    Enmanuel     		219011 488
    Others Gordon Murray - T.50 11/22/23 10:27 AM
    mcdelaug     		166057 387
    Porsche Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS 6/11/23 5:13 PM
    CGX car nut     		138082 144
    BMW M 2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now 12/29/23 9:04 AM
    RCA     		114997 303
    Motor Sp. 2023 Formula One 12/19/23 5:38 AM
    WhoopsyM     		107149 685
    Others Valkyrie final design? 4/28/23 2:45 AM
    Rossi     		99149 219
    Porsche 2022 992 Safari Model 3/7/24 4:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		83440 239
    AMG Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758 2/23/24 10:03 PM
    blueflame     		74859 297
    Porsche 992 GT3 RS 3/3/24 7:22 PM
    WhoopsyM     		52912 314
    Motor Sp. Porsche 963 3/16/24 9:27 PM
    WhoopsyM     		24581 237
    Ferrari Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6) 1/21/24 4:29 PM
    GT-Boy     		20892 103
    BMW M 2022 BMW M5 CS 4/8/24 1:43 PM
    Ferdie     		19137 140
    AMG G63 sold out 9/15/23 7:38 PM
    Nico997     		16409 120
    128 items found, displaying 1 to 30.