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    Nov 29, 2006 3:34:03 PM

    MKSGRM
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    MKSGR
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    Reply to: eclou

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    eclou said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Very simple rationale: Look at the test data available to date. Similar hp = similar 0-300 performance (within 2-4 seconds). It is as simple as that



    If you want a quick example of why torque curves give you a good picture of driveability and acceleration, take a torque laden car (the 997tt) and hold it in 6th. Then accelerate from 60-120mph or so. Do the same with a 430 or M6. The difference will be dramatic. The 430 or M6 would have to go down a couple of gears (gear ratios amplify torque) to match the 997tt.



    I agree that turbo/na cars accelerate differently. My above arguments were more focused on the best achievable 0-300 times rather than high-speed performance in the highest gear

    Nov 29, 2006 3:51:07 PM

    eclou Offline
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    eclou
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:

    I agree that turbo/na cars accelerate differently. My above arguments were more focused on the best achievable 0-300 times rather than high-speed performance in the highest gear



    Gearing is the key. As we see in the 997tt, the 5spd (tip) can accelerate as well as the 6spd - reason being that it has so much torque. Take a gear away from the 430, Gallardo, M6 and their numbers suffer. Hell, even the E55 with the 5spd is still faster than the 7spd E63.

    Nov 29, 2006 3:52:55 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Hmmm. Better aerodynamics should imply that the 997TT is faster than the 993, right? Given the 41s figure of the 997TT that adds another factor to my above argument that the 997TT does not transform hp into acceleration as efficient as the old 993GT2 did



    So what you're saying is that we should all buy old GT2s . What I want to know is which tuner car RC saw do 0-300 km/h in 32 seconds. That could shed a lot of light on what a certain power level can or can't do.

    Nov 29, 2006 4:03:55 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Hmmm. Better aerodynamics should imply that the 997TT is faster than the 993, right? Given the 41s figure of the 997TT that adds another factor to my above argument that the 997TT does not transform hp into acceleration as efficient as the old 993GT2 did



    So what you're saying is that we should all buy old GT2s . What I want to know is which tuner car RC saw do 0-300 km/h in 32 seconds. That could shed a lot of light on what a certain power level can or can't do.



    YESSS, RC please shed some light on this

    Nov 29, 2006 4:21:55 PM

    TB993tt
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    TB993tt
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    RC mentions seeing an "engine dyno" diagram for the ~32s 550hp car - how many Euro tuners have access to one of these ?
    Sounds like the basic 544hp Cargraphic/RST package to me

    RC, do I get a prize

    Nov 29, 2006 4:54:57 PM

    Kiko
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    Kiko
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    Reply to: eclou

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    You're spot on! I remember reading somewhere a nice catch phrase on this, "horsepower is for sales but torque is what takes you faster from A to B".

    P.S. You're from MIT, Huh? Nice...

    Nov 29, 2006 7:49:45 PM

    MKSGRM
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    MKSGR
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    Reply to: Kiko

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Kiko said:
    "horsepower is for sales but torque is what takes you faster from A to B".




    This statemement is usually made by drivers of Diesel engined cars

    Nov 29, 2006 8:32:49 PM

    Kiko
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Kiko said:
    "horsepower is for sales but torque is what takes you faster from A to B".




    This statemement is usually made by drivers of Diesel engined cars



    Or turbo engined Porsches...

    Nov 29, 2006 8:48:40 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: Kiko

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Kiko said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Kiko said:
    "horsepower is for sales but torque is what takes you faster from A to B".




    This statemement is usually made by drivers of Diesel engined cars



    Or turbo engined Porsches...



    Those should know better

    P.S.: torque is fun, no doubt. However, what makes your car fast is hp not torque. Says: a TT lover who has learned a bit over the last 12 months based on personal experience

    Nov 29, 2006 8:58:10 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Kiko said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Kiko said:
    "horsepower is for sales but torque is what takes you faster from A to B".




    This statemement is usually made by drivers of Diesel engined cars



    Or turbo engined Porsches...



    Those should know better

    P.S.: torque is fun, no doubt. However, what makes your car fast is hp not torque. Says: a TT lover who has learned a bit over the last 12 months based on personal experience



    Basically, the formula goes: Kraft = Drehmoment * Touren * 1/7023,5 Touren

    It should show at higher speeds when there is more power across the range than in a peaky car. But then again, I'm not an engineer and this is solely my attempt at bench racing.

    Nov 29, 2006 9:37:22 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
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    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Kiko said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Kiko said:
    "horsepower is for sales but torque is what takes you faster from A to B".




    This statemement is usually made by drivers of Diesel engined cars



    Or turbo engined Porsches...



    Those should know better

    P.S.: torque is fun, no doubt. However, what makes your car fast is hp not torque. Says: a TT lover who has learned a bit over the last 12 months based on personal experience



    Basically, the formula goes: Kraft = Drehmoment * Touren * 1/7023,5 Touren

    It should show at higher speeds when there is more power across the range than in a peaky car. But then again, I'm not an engineer and this is solely my attempt at bench racing.



    I agree: "it should show". However, looking at the numbers available to date the effect seems to be marginal

    Nov 29, 2006 10:36:28 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    YESSS, RC please shed some light on this



    I witnessed the measurement results with my own eyes, 0-200 kph in 10.8 seconds, 0-300 kph (actually 200-300 kph plus the result from the 0-100 kph acceleration, it wasn't possible otherwise due to the circumstences) aprox. 32 seconds, I don't remember the exact figure anymore but it wasn't below that and not higher than 32.9 sec.

    Yes, I also saw the engine dyno diagramm from the tuned engine in the car BUT of course I don't know if the tested car had actually this power only, this is where I still have my doubts a little bit. Car looked pretty much stock, no extreme weight reduction, AWD still working (according to Tuner), etc.

    Sorry, this is all I can say, I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement and the guys are reading Rennteam.com.
    All I can say is that the kit is still in development, they already advertise it but it isn't completely finished yet. The car used for the testing was a customer car, he gets the kit for free (no, it wasn't me ). They also had another car for testing which has been bought (launch car) but this car was equipped with a different, more powerful kit. According to them, I didn't get to see that car.

    Nov 29, 2006 10:57:21 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    YESSS, RC please shed some light on this



    I witnessed the measurement results with my own eyes, 0-200 kph in 10.8 seconds, 0-300 kph (actually 200-300 kph plus the result from the 0-100 kph acceleration, it wasn't possible otherwise due to the circumstences) aprox. 32 seconds, I don't remember the exact figure anymore but it wasn't below that and not higher than 32.9 sec.

    Yes, I also saw the engine dyno diagramm from the tuned engine in the car BUT of course I don't know if the tested car had actually this power only, this is where I still have my doubts a little bit. Car looked pretty much stock, no extreme weight reduction, AWD still working (according to Tuner), etc.

    Sorry, this is all I can say, I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement and the guys are reading Rennteam.com.
    All I can say is that the kit is still in development, they already advertise it but it isn't completely finished yet. The car used for the testing was a customer car, he gets the kit for free (no, it wasn't me ). They also had another car for testing which has been bought (launch car) but this car was equipped with a different, more powerful kit. According to them, I didn't get to see that car.



    So, do you consider it possible for a 620 bhp Turbo to do 0-300 km/h in under 25 seconds?

    Nov 29, 2006 11:01:11 PM

    RCA
    Rennteam Administrator
    RC
    Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    So, do you consider it possible for a 620 bhp Turbo to do 0-300 km/h in under 25 seconds?



    I would lie if I'd tell you yes or no. I simply don't know, there isn't any true comparison data available right now.
    Ask me again in 12 months. The truth is: I would be VERY impressed with any tuned Turbo hitting 0-300 kph below 30 seconds. Judging by the official results of the 997 Turbo and how this car drove away at speeds over 220 kph, the RUF RT I "met" this summer on July 1st on my way to the Rennteam Summer Party may be such a canditate but there may be others too.

    Nov 30, 2006 7:14:20 AM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
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    Reply to: RCA

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    YESSS, RC please shed some light on this



    I witnessed the measurement results with my own eyes, 0-200 kph in 10.8 seconds, 0-300 kph (actually 200-300 kph plus the result from the 0-100 kph acceleration, it wasn't possible otherwise due to the circumstences) aprox. 32 seconds, I don't remember the exact figure anymore but it wasn't below that and not higher than 32.9 sec.

    Yes, I also saw the engine dyno diagramm from the tuned engine in the car BUT of course I don't know if the tested car had actually this power only, this is where I still have my doubts a little bit. Car looked pretty much stock, no extreme weight reduction, AWD still working (according to Tuner), etc.

    Sorry, this is all I can say, I had to sign a non-disclosure agreement and the guys are reading Rennteam.com.
    All I can say is that the kit is still in development, they already advertise it but it isn't completely finished yet. The car used for the testing was a customer car, he gets the kit for free (no, it wasn't me ). They also had another car for testing which has been bought (launch car) but this car was equipped with a different, more powerful kit. According to them, I didn't get to see that car.



    Thanks

    If you had to guess (independantly of the above observations): what 0-300 time would you expect for a 550hp and a 620hp 997TT

    My guess would be 33-34s and 29-31s, respectively. Would you agree?

    Nov 30, 2006 8:29:51 PM

    Guy
    Junior
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    My Ruf 590 engined 996 GT2 managed around 28.5 seconds for 0-300kph. I find it impossible to believe that a 997TT with only 30 extra bhp (less if my engine dyno figure of 630PS is true) that carries an additional 150kg+ over my car would be able to shave 5 seconds off the 0-300kph time.

    Nov 30, 2006 8:32:11 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
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    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: Guy

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Guy said:
    My Ruf 590 engined 996 GT2 managed around 28.5 seconds for 0-300kph. I find it impossible to believe that a 997TT with only 30 extra bhp (less if my engine dyno figure of 630PS is true) that carries an additional 150kg+ over my car would be able to shave 5 seconds off the 0-300kph time.



    In addition, your car does not have AWD which also costs some acceleration performance. Thanks for your post

    Nov 30, 2006 8:40:52 PM

    Crash
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    Reply to: Guy

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Guy said:
    My Ruf 590 engined 996 GT2 managed around 28.5 seconds for 0-300kph. I find it impossible to believe that a 997TT with only 30 extra bhp (less if my engine dyno figure of 630PS is true) that carries an additional 150kg+ over my car would be able to shave 5 seconds off the 0-300kph time.



    How do you explain the RS-Tuning 542 bhp GT2 doing it in the same time as yours then?

    Nov 30, 2006 8:49:35 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
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    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Guy said:
    My Ruf 590 engined 996 GT2 managed around 28.5 seconds for 0-300kph. I find it impossible to believe that a 997TT with only 30 extra bhp (less if my engine dyno figure of 630PS is true) that carries an additional 150kg+ over my car would be able to shave 5 seconds off the 0-300kph time.



    How do you explain the RS-Tuning 542 bhp GT2 doing it in the same time as yours then?



    The sportauto car did have much more than 540hp, I guess. I don't expect a RUF to be slower than a RS. Similar league as far as the engine competence is concerned.

    P.S.: Guy's figure confirms my theory: power is key, torque does not matter that much (when it comes to 0-300 times). A 600hp car will do 0-300 in around 30s Simple rule, easy to memorize

    Nov 30, 2006 9:01:12 PM

    Crash
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    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Guy said:
    My Ruf 590 engined 996 GT2 managed around 28.5 seconds for 0-300kph. I find it impossible to believe that a 997TT with only 30 extra bhp (less if my engine dyno figure of 630PS is true) that carries an additional 150kg+ over my car would be able to shave 5 seconds off the 0-300kph time.



    How do you explain the RS-Tuning 542 bhp GT2 doing it in the same time as yours then?



    The sportauto car did have much more than 540hp, I guess. I don't expect a RUF to be slower than a RS. Similar league as far as the engine competence is concerned.

    P.S.: Guy's figure confirms my theory: power is key, torque does not matter that much (when it comes to 0-300 times). A 600hp car will do 0-300 in around 30s Simple rule, easy to memorize



    It truly seems to be the case. Now, what I really want to see is the Cargraphic RSC test.

    Nov 30, 2006 9:03:44 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Guy said:
    My Ruf 590 engined 996 GT2 managed around 28.5 seconds for 0-300kph. I find it impossible to believe that a 997TT with only 30 extra bhp (less if my engine dyno figure of 630PS is true) that carries an additional 150kg+ over my car would be able to shave 5 seconds off the 0-300kph time.



    How do you explain the RS-Tuning 542 bhp GT2 doing it in the same time as yours then?



    The sportauto car did have much more than 540hp, I guess. I don't expect a RUF to be slower than a RS. Similar league as far as the engine competence is concerned.

    P.S.: Guy's figure confirms my theory: power is key, torque does not matter that much (when it comes to 0-300 times). A 600hp car will do 0-300 in around 30s Simple rule, easy to memorize



    It truly seems to be the case. Now, what I really want to see is the Cargraphic RSC test.



    Me too

    Mar 8, 2008 1:32:02 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Alex_997TT
    Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: atomic80

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    These are probably the biggest power gains that I've seen for the Turbo so far.

    Kit 1: 3.6L
    400KW/ 544HP / 6000 rpms
    765Nm / 2000 - 4900 rpms

    Kit 2: 3.6L
    440KW / 598HP / 6550 rpms
    795Nm / 2600 - 4700 rpms

    Kit 3: 3.8L
    455KW / 618HP / 6500 rpms
    845Nm / 2500 - 4750 rpms

    Kit 4: 3.8L
    505KW / 687HP / 7000 rpms
    900Nm / 4700 rpms

    http://www.cargraphic.com/index.php?/s,6,7,18,2987,2988,3103



    Interesting to compare how the RS-Tuning powerkit outputs have changed since 2006.

    CG Kit 1: 507PS/651Nm 3635 EUR
    CG Kit 2: 544PS/798Nm 8495 EUR
    CG Kit 3: 598PS/811Nm 19995 EUR
    CG Kit 4: 624PS/826Nm 34995 EUR
    CG Kit 5: 645PS/855Nm 59995 EUR
    CG Kit 6: 680PS/867Nm 69995 EUR

    The new Kit 1 is just an exhaust and filter, so the old kit 1 is now the new kit 2.

    Comparing the 544 kits - same horse power but way more torque now!

    Mar 8, 2008 3:03:52 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
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    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Quote:
    Alex_ said:
    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    These are probably the biggest power gains that I've seen for the Turbo so far.

    Kit 1: 3.6L
    400KW/ 544HP / 6000 rpms
    765Nm / 2000 - 4900 rpms

    Kit 2: 3.6L
    440KW / 598HP / 6550 rpms
    795Nm / 2600 - 4700 rpms

    Kit 3: 3.8L
    455KW / 618HP / 6500 rpms
    845Nm / 2500 - 4750 rpms

    Kit 4: 3.8L
    505KW / 687HP / 7000 rpms
    900Nm / 4700 rpms

    http://www.cargraphic.com/index.php?/s,6,7,18,2987,2988,3103



    Interesting to compare how the RS-Tuning powerkit outputs have changed since 2006.

    CG Kit 1: 507PS/651Nm 3635 EUR
    CG Kit 2: 544PS/798Nm 8495 EUR
    CG Kit 3: 598PS/811Nm 19995 EUR
    CG Kit 4: 624PS/826Nm 34995 EUR
    CG Kit 5: 645PS/855Nm 59995 EUR
    CG Kit 6: 680PS/867Nm 69995 EUR

    The new Kit 1 is just an exhaust and filter, so the old kit 1 is now the new kit 2.

    Comparing the 544 kits - same horse power but way more torque now!



    It would seem that the 624 is the last of the somewhat sensibly-priced kits, with 35.000 EUR. After that, the price jumps become gigantic.

    Mar 9, 2008 8:42:37 AM

    Freak997Turbo
    Newbie
    Freak997Turbo
    Loc: CA , United States
    Posts: 37, Gallery
    Registered on: Apr 28, 2007
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    What about 28sec ( on VBOX ) from 0-300 on 1 bar, 2 passengers and pump gas

    That's on Proto 650hp kit

    Mar 9, 2008 6:02:28 PM

    LAT
    Co-Pilot
    LAT
    Loc: Canada , Canada
    Posts: 164, Gallery
    Registered on: Sep 4, 2006
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: RS-tuning kits available for 997TT

    Here are Horsepower graphs comparing Kit 1, 2 and 3.

    Kit #2 gives great value for the money especially in the power curve where we spend most of our time on the street, below 4,500 rpm.
     
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