Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL? - Page1

Nov 24, 2006 5:25:12 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003

How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

Hello community,

I am considering buying a M3 CSL and wanted to ask what you guys think about this car. I know it is a really fast car, and lighter than the usual M3 car, but I am wondering how it compares to a Porsche (Cayman S/Boxster S or 911).
Can someone who has already driven one, write a little summary please? I remember, one member owns a CSL and a Z4MC

The ride height in the CSL is higher than in a Porsche, right? Does that give you the impression that you're "not" riding a sportscar??
Is the car still too heavy to compete with Porsche cars?

Thanks for the answers in advance!!

best regards,
Gauss

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Nov 24, 2006 7:43:17 PM

Pagani Fanatic: Junior; Loc: Canada; Posts: 64, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 19, 2006; Reply to: Gauss

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

It's one hell of a sports car, almost like a GT3, but beware if you buy one you must give up certain aspects of comfort. For instance the tyres are near slick, designed for the track.

A fully loaded M3 CSL with a 68kg driver weighs 1,421kg, the 997 GT3 with ceramic brakes and the 68kg driver weighs 1440kg (both numbers from Sport Auto)

The CSL isn't as fast in a straight line as a 996 or 997 GT3 but on the track it proves to be an amazing vehicle.

M3 CSL

Nurburgring: 7:50
Hockenheim: 1:13.5
0-200-0 km/h: 21.4
Cornering G's: 1.4
36 Metre Slalom: 135 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 157 km/h

996 GT3

Nurburgring: 7:54
Hockenheim: 1:13.2
0-200-0 km/h: 19.9
Cornering G's: 1.25
36 Metre Slalom: 130 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 149 km/h

As you can see the CSL holds pretty well against the 996 GT3, as for the 997 GT3

997 GT3

Nurburgring: 7:48
Hockenheim: 1:11.7
0-200-0 km/h: 18.6
Cornering G's: 1.3
36 Metre Slalom: 141 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 158 km/h

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Nov 24, 2006 7:53:56 PM

Dr. Phil: Rennteam Master; Loc: Denmark , Denmark; Posts: 5884, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 30, 2004; Reply to: Pagani Fanatic

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

Kickass. Get it!

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Nov 24, 2006 10:08:12 PM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: Gauss

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

Why don't you read Luigi's review from a few years back:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=15183&an=0&page=0#15183

Still, it would make a great road car!

- Justin

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Nov 24, 2006 11:02:55 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: Pagani Fanatic

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

Quote:
Pagani Fanatic said:
It's one hell of a sports car, almost like a GT3, but beware if you buy one you must give up certain aspects of comfort. For instance the tyres are near slick, designed for the track.

A fully loaded M3 CSL with a 68kg driver weighs 1,421kg, the 997 GT3 with ceramic brakes and the 68kg driver weighs 1440kg (both numbers from Sport Auto)

The CSL isn't as fast in a straight line as a 996 or 997 GT3 but on the track it proves to be an amazing vehicle.

M3 CSL

Nurburgring: 7:50
Hockenheim: 1:13.5
0-200-0 km/h: 21.4
Cornering G's: 1.4
36 Metre Slalom: 135 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 157 km/h

996 GT3

Nurburgring: 7:54
Hockenheim: 1:13.2
0-200-0 km/h: 19.9
Cornering G's: 1.25
36 Metre Slalom: 130 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 149 km/h

As you can see the CSL holds pretty well against the 996 GT3, as for the 997 GT3

997 GT3

Nurburgring: 7:48
Hockenheim: 1:11.7
0-200-0 km/h: 18.6
Cornering G's: 1.3
36 Metre Slalom: 141 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 158 km/h

Thanks for posting those very interesting figures, I don't suppose you have the figures for a regular M3 do you? In particular I am interested in the weight of a car that has options etc

Thanks!

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Nov 24, 2006 11:19:48 PM

Gauss: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Luxembourg , Luxembourg; Posts: 5822, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 3, 2003; Reply to: Justin

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

Quote:
Justin said:
Why don't you read Luigi's review from a few years back:
http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=15183&an=0&page=0#15183

Still, it would make a great road car!

- Justin

I have, thank you Justin, for the Link.
I don't understand how the CSL, the way Luigi described it, can pull off the numbers Pagani Fanatic posted above.
If the car doesn't handle that good or direct, how can it still have sub 8 mins on the Ring?
Plus, I have meanwhile read many other reviews on that car, and it sure is a beast...Luigis post is one of the very few that are in disfavor of the car.
Still, thank you all for your contributions! Much appreciated!

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Nov 24, 2006 11:51:44 PM

Pagani Fanatic: Junior; Loc: Canada; Posts: 64, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 19, 2006; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

Quote:
Porky Tokyo said:
Quote:
Pagani Fanatic said:
It's one hell of a sports car, almost like a GT3, but beware if you buy one you must give up certain aspects of comfort. For instance the tyres are near slick, designed for the track.

A fully loaded M3 CSL with a 68kg driver weighs 1,421kg, the 997 GT3 with ceramic brakes and the 68kg driver weighs 1440kg (both numbers from Sport Auto)

The CSL isn't as fast in a straight line as a 996 or 997 GT3 but on the track it proves to be an amazing vehicle.

M3 CSL

Nurburgring: 7:50
Hockenheim: 1:13.5
0-200-0 km/h: 21.4
Cornering G's: 1.4
36 Metre Slalom: 135 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 157 km/h

996 GT3

Nurburgring: 7:54
Hockenheim: 1:13.2
0-200-0 km/h: 19.9
Cornering G's: 1.25
36 Metre Slalom: 130 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 149 km/h

As you can see the CSL holds pretty well against the 996 GT3, as for the 997 GT3

997 GT3

Nurburgring: 7:48
Hockenheim: 1:11.7
0-200-0 km/h: 18.6
Cornering G's: 1.3
36 Metre Slalom: 141 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 158 km/h

Thanks for posting those very interesting figures, I don't suppose you have the figures for a regular M3 do you? In particular I am interested in the weight of a car that has options etc

Thanks!

I'd be happy to supply you with the M3's numbers:

Sadly i do not know the options which were fitted to this vehicle, but the kerbweight was 1584kg

Nurburgring: 8:22
Hockenheim: 1:17.6
0-200-0 km/h: 23.2
Cornering G's: 1.1
36 Metre Slalom: 123 km/h
110 Metre Evasive: 136 km/h

Haven't driven a CSL before but with the countless great reviews and performance tests fo the vehicle i'd defientley recommend one.

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Nov 25, 2006 12:14:43 AM

Justin: Veteran; Loc: San Diego, CA, USA; Posts: 979, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 12, 2003; Reply to: Gauss

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

Quote:
Gauss said:

I have, thank you Justin, for the Link.
I don't understand how the CSL, the way Luigi described it, can pull off the numbers Pagani Fanatic posted above.
If the car doesn't handle that good or direct, how can it still have sub 8 mins on the Ring?
Plus, I have meanwhile read many other reviews on that car, and it sure is a beast...Luigis post is one of the very few that are in disfavor of the car.
Still, thank you all for your contributions! Much appreciated!

I think it comes down to the subjective feel of the car. I don't think Luigi had done any formal timing of lap times, so he was speaking mostly from the perspective of a regular (but experienced) sports car driver.

The car still has good pace, and subjective evaluations don't take away from that potential.

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Nov 25, 2006 3:38:23 AM

Hurst: Veteran; Loc: Potomac, MD; Posts: 1255, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2005; Reply to: Justin

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

The CSL is a car that you can push pretty hard. My friend has a M3 that has been "made" into a CSL (weight reduction, real stiff suspension, slicks, minor power upgrades). The car is hellish to drive in the wet. If that is of concern, this cannot be a daily driver.

I think there often is a delta between the AMS NBR times and driver opinions on cars like the CSL because the CSL can be pushed real close to the edge if the driver is a pro. But if you are not, you don't really notice the upgrades over the base. Let me explain:

With a real tight suspension and real sticky tyres, you can pull much greater lateral G's in cornering in the CSL, which will drastically change your angle of entry patterns in a track like the NBR. However, when you're doing this, you have to be able to control vicious oversteers in a course that begs the driver to keep cornering speed real high throughout. Notice the discrepancy in a tight technical track like HHM (not as great numbers as the NBR).

Its kind of like the CGT in a sense. A lot of drivers simply cant sap the potential out of it because, frankly, its dangerous to do so...

But if you're a driving purist and you know what to do behind the wheel, I think it would be a lovely car to really push your abilities...

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Nov 25, 2006 3:32:46 PM

zoltan: Co-Pilot; Loc: Athens , Greece; Posts: 275, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2004; Reply to: Hurst

Re: How much of a sportscar is the BMW M3 CSL?

Great post, Hurst

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