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    Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Hello everybody.

    I have been following the forum silently for some time. Its great.

    Now here is my question:

    The Porsche turbo has always been one of my favorite cars. But I actually never got one, for various reasons. I have been driving mainly Mercs, SL55, SL65 etc. which are great performers and comfortable.

    I always wanted to get 997 turbo S when it would come out. But now I have the possibility to get a brand new 997 TIP (non-S). Need to decide very quickly whether to get it or not. (It has all the options I want, color I like, etc).

    Thing is, a friend of mine has a 996 turbo S, and while it is nice a car, although personally would never get a 996, every time he takes me for a spin, I cant wait to get out of it as it just not comfortable.

    Would I be happy getting a 997 turbo, given that I have been driving Mercs most of the time ?

    Any advice much appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Lukas

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Hello everybody.

    I have been following the forum silently for some time. Its great.

    Now here is my question:

    The Porsche turbo has always been one of my favorite cars. But I actually never got one, for various reasons. I have been driving mainly Mercs, SL55, SL65 etc. which are great performers and comfortable.

    I always wanted to get 997 turbo S when it would come out. But now I have the possibility to get a brand new 997 TIP (non-S). Need to decide very quickly whether to get it or not. (It has all the options I want, color I like, etc).

    Thing is, a friend of mine has a 996 turbo S, and while it is nice a car, although personally would never get a 996, every time he takes me for a spin, I cant wait to get out of it as it just not comfortable.

    Would I be happy getting a 997 turbo, given that I have been driving Mercs most of the time ?

    Any advice much appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Lukas



    Did the 996TTS have the X73 suspension? I found the standard 996 Turbo to be pretty comfortable (at least for my taste). Take the 997TT for a test drive and see whether you like it or not.
    There are rumors, though, that the powerkit will be coming in about a year, so you might want to wait if you aren't in a hurry to buy one.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Hi Crash,

    Thanks very much. I dont know whether the car has X73 suspension. But the car is rather uncomfortable in my opinion.

    Have been trying to get a 997 for a test drive, without success. Some dealers dont have one, others dont take one serious, still others told me to wait for a few months, etc.

    As I need to decide very quickly, I would buy it without ever having driven one. So in a way I am bit in a hurry.

    Thanks
    Lukas

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Hi Crash,

    Thanks very much. I dont know whether the car has X73 suspension. But the car is rather uncomfortable in my opinion.

    Have been trying to get a 997 for a test drive, without success. Some dealers dont have one, others dont take one serious, still others told me to wait for a few months, etc.

    As I need to decide very quickly, I would buy it without ever having driven one. So in a way I am bit in a hurry.

    Thanks
    Lukas



    You might want to ask RC via Privatnachricht. He owned a 996TT before and now owns a 997TT Tiptronic, so he can explain the difference to you.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Hello everybody.

    I have been following the forum silently for some time. Its great.

    Now here is my question:

    The Porsche turbo has always been one of my favorite cars. But I actually never got one, for various reasons. I have been driving mainly Mercs, SL55, SL65 etc. which are great performers and comfortable.

    I always wanted to get 997 turbo S when it would come out. But now I have the possibility to get a brand new 997 TIP (non-S). Need to decide very quickly whether to get it or not. (It has all the options I want, color I like, etc).

    Thing is, a friend of mine has a 996 turbo S, and while it is nice a car, although personally would never get a 996, every time he takes me for a spin, I cant wait to get out of it as it just not comfortable.

    Would I be happy getting a 997 turbo, given that I have been driving Mercs most of the time ?

    Any advice much appreciated.

    Thanks.

    Lukas



    Reading your Post I would reccomend not to buy THIS 997TT.

    The 997TT (in PASM Normal) is not more comfortable than the 996TT (with standard suspension). Thus, given your earlier experience with the 996TT I would wait for a test drive opportunity and decide on whether to buy or not to buy thereafter.

    Don't worry, the 997TT is not that difficult to get. Why don't you order a car now (for April or May 2007) and tell your dealer that the contract has to be reconfirmed on the basis of a satisfactory test drive? That procedure would give your dealer the right incentive to get you a test car, would secure you a slot for spring 2007 (a 997TT in winter is not perfect...) and avoid the risk of buying a car you don't like

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Though I agree with MKSGR's conclusion (that if you didn't like the 996tt, you probably won't like the 997tt and therefore shouldn't get it), but I disagree about the comfort of the PASM suspension in normal v. the standard 996tt suspension. Having driven many miles over the same roads in both cars, I find the PASM equipped suspension more forgiving over expansion joints etc. But there's still the road noise and the engine sound of either turbo is not terribly pleasing - it is more gruff than mechanically pleasant sounding. If you like the comfort of a SL, you'll probably find the 997tt tiring.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Dear Lukas,

    if you only start to think about comfort, a Porsche is definetely not the right car for you. Well...maybe a Cayenne S would be right.

    The 997 Turbo offers slightly more comfort than the older 996 Turbo in my opinion but it still is a sportscar and you can feel it all the time. The steering gets nervous, the tail starts to shake, the noise level is pretty high despite the "sterile" exhaust note and although the seats are comfortable, the low riding position isn't always what people define when speaking about comfort.

    Is the 997 Turbo a good daily driver? You bet it is (check out the picture, this is how my Turbo looks all the time...not neat and clean but mean and dirty ). Is the 997 Turbo as comfortable as a Mercedes S, SL? Definetely not. Especially with the family onboard, I prefer our Cayenne Turbo Powerkit.

    How about a good compromise: have you ever thought about getting a BMW M6?

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    I say go for it.

    If you have driven lots of AMG Mercedes, you would particularly be impressed how well the Porsche handles the power.

    It brakes and turns much more effortlessly than the Mercedes. I find myself becoming a worse driver in the Porsche as it is so forgiving.

    However, when it accelerates or when the car is going at high speed, it is far noisier (both engine and tires). It's the constant higher noise level in the car that may bother you, if you're used to the Mercedes ride. Something to consider if you use the phone a lot when driving.

    As a passenger I always hated to be in a sports car, but as a driver it's completely different. Driving becomes so much more fun as you have far better control. It's hard to describe but I actually feel quite liberated when driving a car that is so balanced.

    It's really convenient to be able to accelerate on wet surfaces without being constantly bothered by the lack of traction (hence jerky ESP kicks in - so common with high power Mercedes). It's so nice to brake to a stop when the brakes give you precise feedback (you never get this from the artificial SBC on the SL).

    Winter is coming and it's nice to have the added traction. If you really find it too tiring you can always go back to the SL55/65 in the summer?

    Let us know about your decision either way! Good luck.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    The 997TT probably is not the car for you if you thought the 996TT was harsh, this one won't be much different.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Thanks for all your comments and advices.

    Obviously, I dont expect it to be as comfy as a SL. My other concern is that while performance is great, it is not THAT great anymore. I remember times when there was basically nothing that could match a 911 turbo.

    Isnt it a bit embarrassing that an SL65, which is nonetheless a cruiser weighing more than 2 tons, is faster in a straight line than a turbo ?? Now, I have an SL65, but I always want my newest car to be the best performing one...

    I still have no clue what the 997 Turbo drives/feels like it, so I am taking a big gamble here. But what the heck:

    I DECIDED TO TAKE IT !!!!!!

    I will post another thread with more details !

    Thanks again to everybody !

    Lukas

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Isnt it a bit embarrassing that an SL65, which is nonetheless a cruiser weighing more than 2 tons, is faster in a straight line than a turbo ??



    It is? Judging by the test data I have here in my hand, it isn't. Since when does the SL65 do 0-200 kph in less than 12.3 seconds or 0-100 kph in less than 3.7 seconds? Just curious???

    According to AMS, the SL65 did 0-200 kph in 12.6 seconds and 0-100 kph in 3.9 seconds. I've also seen two reviews in other car magazines (2005) where the SL65 did 0-200 kph in over 13 seconds and 0-100 kph in 4.1 seconds or so.

    So please...the 997 Turbo IS faster than the SL65, even if it isn't faster by much.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Isnt it a bit embarrassing that an SL65, which is nonetheless a cruiser weighing more than 2 tons, is faster in a straight line than a turbo ??



    It is? Judging by the test data I have here in my hand, it isn't. Since when does the SL65 do 0-200 kph in less than 12.3 seconds or 0-100 kph in less than 3.7 seconds? Just curious???

    According to AMS, the SL65 did 0-200 kph in 12.6 seconds and 0-100 kph in 3.9 seconds. I've also seen two reviews in other car magazines (2005) where the SL65 did 0-200 kph in over 13 seconds and 0-100 kph in 4.1 seconds or so.

    So please...the 997 Turbo IS faster than the SL65, even if it isn't faster by much.



    I believe he meant the upper speed ranges, e.g. over 200 km/h. Doesn't help much when it hits the corners, though .

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Thanks for all your comments and advices.

    I DECIDED TO TAKE IT !!!!!!

    I will post another thread with more details !

    Thanks again to everybody !

    Lukas



    We await your feedback once the initial joy of ownership fades. We hope you love it!

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Shall be done !

    Anything special to be aware of, things to know, do's and dont's etc. ?

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Hi RC,

    sorry for not being clear:

    The 0-100 and 0-200 times we can consider equal, which is already bad enough...

    But
    0-300= 40.7 sec for the 997T

    SL65
    0-300= 31.9

    Now thats a huge difference.

    How would you feel when you meet a 65 on the German highway and loose big time...? I will feel like crap..

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Hi RC,

    sorry for not being clear:

    The 0-100 and 0-200 times we can consider equal, which is already bad enough...

    But
    0-300= 40.7 sec for the 997T

    SL65
    0-300= 31.9

    Now thats a huge difference.

    How would you feel when you meet a 65 on the German highway and loose big time...? I will feel like crap..



    Like I've said before, wait until you hit some corners. The SL is heavy. In any case, in the timeframe of several months, tuning kits will be available to make your car much faster.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    LukasLuis, I'm pleased you're with us. I had a 996 TT, the 997 TT is significantly more comfortable in normal setting, ask my wife and kids!

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    In US and Canada, all Mercedes and BMWs are limited to 155 mph or 250 km/h so the 997TT is still faster!

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    Hi RC,

    sorry for not being clear:

    The 0-100 and 0-200 times we can consider equal, which is already bad enough...

    But
    0-300= 40.7 sec for the 997T

    SL65
    0-300= 31.9

    Now thats a huge difference.

    How would you feel when you meet a 65 on the German highway and loose big time...? I will feel like crap..



    The 0-300 time you quoted for the SL65 would make it faster that the SLR (32.4 to 36.9) -- no way!!!

    In addition, MB does speed limit their cars even if the special option is selected. In either case, I don't think speed will be an issue with the 997tt.

    As for comfort, I own a 2004 SL500 and recently test drove a 997tt, equipped with Adaptive Sport Seats. The ride was slightly less forgiving, probably due to the 19" wheels and lower profile tires, but still acceptable. On the other hand, the seats were more comfortable.


    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    i think you should buy a bentley gt
    the 997 turbo is for young men, atleast at heart. maybe youre getting too old for a sports car.

    ( just trying to motivate you! TURBO is the way to go)

    here's the race between SLR and SL65

    Here's the race SLR vs SL65

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=OauZtRPu3AA

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    SL65
    0-300= 31.9

    Now thats a huge difference.

    How would you feel when you meet a 65 on the German highway and loose big time...? I will feel like crap..



    And you really think this figure is accurate? I doubt it. Mercedes/AMG did a very good "job" in delivering superduper versions of their cars to the motor press, the first SL55 AMG versions were the best example. We testdrove a SL55 in comparison to a 996 Turbo shortly after (review available on Rennteam) and the SL55 had no chance whatsoever against the 996 Turbo (stock car). The SL55 was a dealer car, no press car. Only an example.

    Why do you think the german AMG Owner's Club kicked me out of their Club? Apparently they didn't like my approach for unveilling the truth when the Club President acknowledged to me on the phone that he knew that the SL55 provided for the test in Nardo was actually a prototype with the SLR engine and that AMG hasn't authorized the usage of this car for the test but Mercedes went over their head. I should have kept my mouth.

    Or maybe this helps: I outran a SL65 AMG with my former RS-Tuning tuned 996 Turbo shortly before I sold it.
    The performance of my current 997 Turbo is almost at par with my former tuned 996 Turbo, so do the math.

    0-300 kph in 31.9 sec. for the SL65 AMG? I doubt that any customer car would achieve this figure, honestly.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    LukasLuis said:
    SL65
    0-300= 31.9

    Now thats a huge difference.

    How would you feel when you meet a 65 on the German highway and loose big time...? I will feel like crap..



    And you really think this figure is accurate? I doubt it. Mercedes/AMG did a very good "job" in delivering superduper versions of their cars to the motor press, the first SL55 AMG versions were the best example. We testdrove a SL55 in comparison to a 996 Turbo shortly after (review available on Rennteam) and the SL55 had no chance whatsoever against the 996 Turbo (stock car). The SL55 was a dealer car, no press car. Only an example.

    Why do you think the german AMG Owner's Club kicked me out of their Club? Apparently they didn't like my approach for unveilling the truth when the Club President acknowledged to me on the phone that he knew that the SL55 provided for the test in Nardo was actually a prototype with the SLR engine and that AMG hasn't authorized the usage of this car for the test but Mercedes went over their head. I should have kept my mouth.

    Or maybe this helps: I outran a SL65 AMG with my former RS-Tuning tuned 996 Turbo shortly before I sold it.
    The performance of my current 997 Turbo is almost at par with my former tuned 996 Turbo, so do the math.

    0-300 kph in 31.9 sec. for the SL65 AMG? I doubt that any customer car would achieve this figure, honestly.



    Fine not 31.9 let it be 33 or 34 seconds still thats very impressive for a 4000 pound car, and if you mod it with ECU its even faster. Although its no sports car its a fast cruiser!

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Had a 997TT Tip/PCCB; have '07 SL65 and CL550; will get rid of CL550 and SL65 for CL63 in Mar when 63 hits US. Not sure if I want a CL65 when it's released in Sept....

    IMO 997TT's fatal flaws are turbo lag, awful exhaust note and lack of paddleshifters. SL65's fatal flaws are poor traction (even on dry, bumpy fwys in mid-range bursts) and heavy, old 3v/cyl engine tech.

    CL offers a "digital" tech platform that makes any car, incl SL/997TT/599, seem rather analog ....63 should offer an interesting linear NA latest-tech engine, w/a charismatic exhaust note, decent traction and paddleshifters....not sure if a risk/reward-conscious driver will necessarily drive a CL65 any faster (straight-line/twisties) than a CL63, as 65's poor trac (even in dry) is confidence-sapping....sort of like how 997TT's turbo lag is confidence-sapping for quick mid-range urban fwy bursts....perhaps when AMG kills the ancient, heavy 600/65 3v/cyl motors and creates a new, lighter high-tech NA 12, they'll also engineer a chassis w/appropriate traction vs the motor's tq

    Other considerations for some may be ride ht of 997TT/SL/599; lack of rigid fixed roof struc of SL; and re: 599 safety, where does one begin? ....in mtn twisties/general US urban traffic vs large SUVs, would rather be in a CL vs an SUV in any collision (have had too many close calls w/inept oncoming SUV drivers in mtn twisties who can't stay in their own lane)....and last I chkd, CL63 is only 500lbs heavier than 599, despite a few more safety strucs/systems

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    The 997 turbo is so much more fun than any AMG in the rain.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    W211 said:
    The 997 turbo is so much more fun than any AMG in the rain.



    Will be interesting to compare PCCB vs CL63 brakes (w/autobrake drying feature) in rain...and cross-wind/chassis damping stability of 997TT vs CL63 at <100MPH on bumpy fwys on windy SF Peninsula (bumpy stretches of fwy driven at speed revealed definite sense of suboptimal control in 997TT vs even the humble CL550 IMO).....not sure which car wins those often daily, rainy winter urban driving criteria in CA

    Not sure any car is "fun" on rainy days ....on rainy days, most risk/reward-oriented guys prob avoid seeking out mtn twisties driving anyway....and rather drive in an ultra-conservative, defensive manner, trying to avoid the many ineptly-driven SUVs rolling over in the rain/threatening to rear-end one's 997TT/CL63 in any sudden deceleration....

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    W211 said:
    The 997 turbo is so much more fun than any AMG in the rain.



    Will be interesting to compare PCCB vs CL63 brakes (w/autobrake drying feature) in rain...and cross-wind/chassis damping stability of 997TT vs CL63 at <100MPH on bumpy fwys on windy SF Peninsula (bumpy stretches of fwy driven at speed revealed definite sense of suboptimal control in 997TT vs even the humble CL550 IMO).....not sure which car wins those often daily, rainy winter urban driving criteria in CA

    Not sure any car is "fun" on rainy days ....on rainy days, most risk/reward-oriented guys prob avoid seeking out mtn twisties driving anyway....and rather drive in an ultra-conservative, defensive manner, trying to avoid the many ineptly-driven SUVs rolling over in the rain/threatening to rear-end one's 997TT/CL63 in any sudden deceleration....



    Since it rains so much here in the Pacific Northwest, for me, rain performance is an important consideration.

    It's a lot of fun to be able to accelerate away quickly from other cars at intersections or at speed to pass. Much more room for error with the turbo. With AMGs, it's often unpredictable when traction control kicks in and for how long.

    As far as braking is concerned, I haven't tried the CL but the new S brakes seem to be an improvement over the W211 E-class AMG. The thing about brakes is that one gets used to good brakes on a good chassis (no dive). I used to love my BMW brakes but after the Porsche, if I drive the two cars back to back, it takes me a while to get used to the body roll and the braking distance.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Don't get the 997TT.

    If you have to ask if you should, you will likely be unhappy with it.

    Its really not a safe choice to start learning how to drive a 911 with.

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    W211 said:
    Quote:
    VKSF said:
    Quote:
    W211 said:
    The 997 turbo is so much more fun than any AMG in the rain.



    Will be interesting to compare PCCB vs CL63 brakes (w/autobrake drying feature) in rain...and cross-wind/chassis damping stability of 997TT vs CL63 at <100MPH on bumpy fwys on windy SF Peninsula (bumpy stretches of fwy driven at speed revealed definite sense of suboptimal control in 997TT vs even the humble CL550 IMO).....not sure which car wins those often daily, rainy winter urban driving criteria in CA

    Not sure any car is "fun" on rainy days ....on rainy days, most risk/reward-oriented guys prob avoid seeking out mtn twisties driving anyway....and rather drive in an ultra-conservative, defensive manner, trying to avoid the many ineptly-driven SUVs rolling over in the rain/threatening to rear-end one's 997TT/CL63 in any sudden deceleration....



    Since it rains so much here in the Pacific Northwest, for me, rain performance is an important consideration.

    It's a lot of fun to be able to accelerate away quickly from other cars at intersections or at speed to pass. Much more room for error with the turbo. With AMGs, it's often unpredictable when traction control kicks in and for how long.

    As far as braking is concerned, I haven't tried the CL but the new S brakes seem to be an improvement over the W211 E-class AMG. The thing about brakes is that one gets used to good brakes on a good chassis (no dive). I used to love my BMW brakes but after the Porsche, if I drive the two cars back to back, it takes me a while to get used to the body roll and the braking distance.



    I'll be interested to drive CL63 vs 997TT to determine which is a better rain-weather car.....have my doubts re: PCCB wet-weather stopping perf....and 997TT cross-wind stability and stability vs bumpy high-speed CA fwys (even at mundane sub-German AB speeds)....

    997TT is a brilliant car despite its various fatal performance flaws (have owned two 996TTS Coupes, a 997S Coupe and 997TT and too many S/CL/SL550/55/600/65 to even count )...and when P comes up w/a competent PDK and PSE, my P dealer knows I'll be first in-line to spec a new copy.....

    Re: Shall I get it ? 997 turbo brand new.

    Quote:
    VKSF said:I'll be interested to drive CL63 vs 997TT to determine which is a better rain-weather car.....have my doubts re: PCCB wet-weather stopping perf....and 997TT cross-wind stability and stability vs bumpy high-speed CA fwys (even at mundane sub-German AB speeds)....

    997TT is a brilliant car despite its various fatal performance flaws (have owned two 996TTS Coupes, a 997S Coupe and 997TT and too many S/CL/SL550/55/600/65 to even count )...and when P comes up w/a competent PDK and PSE, my P dealer knows I'll be first in-line to spec a new copy.....



    Nothing wrong with the 997TT w/ steel brakes in the rain. I would be very shocked to hear any 4,000+ lb front engine Mercedes outbraking me under any circumstance, rain or shine.

    Haven't driven consistently over 100 mph but have absolutely no cross wind stability problems. At high speed, it's the tire noise that bothers me more than anything in the 997TT but the car certainly sticks to the road.

    Are you seriously comparing the CL63 with the 997TT?! When I think of the CL63, I think of a 2 door big car with S-class handling and performance.

     
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