Crown

Does anyone know if there is a weight difference between these 2 models?

People are saying that the LWB are more upright, which makes me wonder: Can you still comfortably wear a helmet and a HANS ?

It would be helpful to hear from someone who has had seat time in both with a helmet and on a track. 

In short: Which ones are better suited for trackdays? 

Joel : You are having issues with something that is not an issue . The LWB had praises from nearly everyone . I use them on track with a helmet ( no hans ) and there is absolutely no problem .  I have seem them being used on track with people wearing hans . Never asked them about it, but also never heared any complains .  If you want good access to the back, take the folding ones . They are great too . If you want the latest ones with more upwards holed, take the LWB . Best would be to go to a dealer hand try them out . I am sure you can find some garage that have 2nd hand GT4/GT3 or RS on sale . They will probably have the LWB .

The weight difference is a non issue . Having 10 l of fuel more or less is probably a much bigger weight difference 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Not entirely unimportant, the LWB are much prettier...

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Porker:

Not entirely unimportant, the LWB are much prettier...

 They are . The foldable ones look from another generation .

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Gnil:

Joel : You are having issues with something that is not an issue . The LWB had praises from nearly everyone . I use them on track with a helmet ( no hans ) and there is absolutely no problem .  I have seem them being used on track with people wearing hans . Never asked them about it, but also never heared any complains .  If you want good access to the back, take the folding ones . They are great too . If you want the latest ones with more upwards holed, take the LWB . Best would be to go to a dealer hand try them out . I am sure you can find some garage that have 2nd hand GT4/GT3 or RS on sale . They will probably have the LWB .

The weight difference is a non issue . Having 10 l of fuel more or less is probably a much bigger weight difference 

Thanks. Appreciate your opinion. 

I was a little concerned after reading some comments about the LWB being too upright. Glad to hear that isn't the case. 

I don't particularly need the easy access to the rear. It was nice to have in the 997.2 GT3 with the foldable seats, but not a necessity.

I have asked my dealer to send me note once they have a car in the showroom with the LWB so I can test them out.

Or...next time I'll be at the Nürburgring, I'll ask if someone with LWB will be kind enough to let me have a short sit in them. I have to go to that place anyway and have a good look at the GT3's there...I need some inspiration for my colour choice 

Honestly, IMHO the current LWB is the worst bucket seat Porsche has produced. I have seat time from 996 GT to current 991 RS, having owned a 997RS Mk1 and a 991 GT3 with the foldable bucket seats. I drove the Cayman CS and the last years and this years Cup cars extensively too. The current LWB is very compromised in my book, looks over substance. Wearing a helmet with HANS puts your neck in such a strange forward position that my neck starts to hurt after 15 minutes. Also the seat doesn't support you enough in the shoulder area and still after 1.5 years I'm struggling to find a position to steer in tight corners without my elbows touching the side bolsters. I would highly recommend to have enough seat time before you decide. Apparently the cars provided by Porsche for their driving courses are fitted with the foldable seats so go figure!

Mike

M3ike:

Honestly, IMHO the current LWB is the worst bucket seat Porsche has produced. I have seat time from 996 GT to current 991 RS, having owned a 997RS Mk1 and a 991 GT3 with the foldable bucket seats. I drove the Cayman CS and the last years and this years Cup cars extensively too. The current LWB is very compromised in my book, looks over substance. Wearing a helmet with HANS puts your neck in such a strange forward position that my neck starts to hurt after 15 minutes. Also the seat doesn't support you enough in the shoulder area and still after 1.5 years I'm struggling to find a position to steer in tight corners without my elbows touching the side bolsters. I would highly recommend to have enough seat time before you decide. Apparently the cars provided by Porsche for their driving courses are fitted with the foldable seats so go figure!

Mike

Lol, now I'm back at square one. That's exactly what I've read in another forum and it made me worry. 

Mike, do you prefer the foldable bucket seats over the LWB ? The FB are also tighter at the hips. 

Also, the LWB are height adjustable while the foldable buckets aren't, but I guess that advantage isn't enough to cut the mustard?

Anyway, thanks a lot, Mike. Very helpful 

Interesting - I drove mine with LWB on track with HANS on Sunday, albeit briefly, and didn't notice any particular compromise. I also find them to have better shoulder support than the folding buckets I had in my last car. I agree the folding ones are tighter on the hips - Porsche clearly engineered the new ones to be more accommodating to bigger people, but I don't find them to be worse than than the folding buckets.

2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

humm, interesting ...... big differences from one person to another . Joel , you will need to test it yourself , as I can not relate at all to M3ike's experience . Maybe the size of the person makes a big difference 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

I did read the lightweight buckets initially launched on CGT and fitted to 997 RS were deemed better than the LWB's. And I must admit they're by far the best seats I've ever experienced. I can't compare to the LWB's, but if they're anywhere close to the CGT's, I'd be a happy customer.

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Gnil:

humm, interesting ...... big differences from one person to another . Joel , you will need to test it yourself , as I can not relate at all to M3ike's experience . Maybe the size of the person makes a big difference 

In Switzerland they call M3ike "The Oak tree of St. Gallen", go figure... 

1992 Mercedes-Benz W124 500E / 2003 BMW M3 CSL (sold) / 2008 Porsche 911 GT3 RS / 2014 BMW-Alpina D3 biturbo Touring / 2014 BMW-Alpina B3 biturbo Touring Allrad

Yes, all Porsche factory cars for school are fitted with the foldable buckets. 

Personally, The foldable buckets are completely usable with only a 3 point belt, the base, as in where I seated in, hugs my bottom perfectly, I do not slide around in it. The shoulder 'wing' are wider in the foldable bucket, I would prefer them to be a bit tighter for support. Personal taste. Seat back angle leaves plenty of room for helmets. 

The 918 style seat. In the 918 they are installed in a more upright position, feels bad for street driving but perfect on track, as the elbow angle is basically 90 degree, perfect leverage for steering.

Same seat installed in a 911 have a bit more reline built in, quite a bit more comfortable for street driving and and that extra angle is enough for me to feel comfortable even with a helmet on. 

The base is a bit wider than the foldable bucket, my ass is not big enough to fill it completely, not an issue in the 918 with the 6 point harness, but with only a 3 point seatbelt my ass would slide side to side and front to back in it. Learnt that the hard way when I track my 911R, as I don't have the luxury of using my left leg to brace like I can in a GT3RS. 

The shoulder 'wing' is tighter in the LWB, personally I prefer that for lateral support. 

Whoopsy:

Yes, all Porsche factory cars for school are fitted with the foldable buckets. 

Personally, The foldable buckets are completely usable with only a 3 point belt, the base, as in where I seated in, hugs my bottom perfectly, I do not slide around in it. The shoulder 'wing' are wider in the foldable bucket, I would prefer them to be a bit tighter for support. Personal taste. Seat back angle leaves plenty of room for helmets. 

The 918 style seat. In the 918 they are installed in a more upright position, feels bad for street driving but perfect on track, as the elbow angle is basically 90 degree, perfect leverage for steering.

Same seat installed in a 911 have a bit more reline built in, quite a bit more comfortable for street driving and and that extra angle is enough for me to feel comfortable even with a helmet on. 

The base is a bit wider than the foldable bucket, my ass is not big enough to fill it completely, not an issue in the 918 with the 6 point harness, but with only a 3 point seatbelt my ass would slide side to side and front to back in it. Learnt that the hard way when I track my 911R, as I don't have the luxury of using my left leg to brace like I can in a GT3RS. 

The shoulder 'wing' is tighter in the LWB, personally I prefer that for lateral support.

Thanks Whoopsy. That is nice to know.

Have you found the height adjusting in the LWB as a big plus over the foldable buckets ? I am 175 cm and not sure if I would benefit from lowering the LWB below the sitting position in a foldable bucket.

Gauss:

Whoopsy:

Yes, all Porsche factory cars for school are fitted with the foldable buckets. 

Personally, The foldable buckets are completely usable with only a 3 point belt, the base, as in where I seated in, hugs my bottom perfectly, I do not slide around in it. The shoulder 'wing' are wider in the foldable bucket, I would prefer them to be a bit tighter for support. Personal taste. Seat back angle leaves plenty of room for helmets. 

The 918 style seat. In the 918 they are installed in a more upright position, feels bad for street driving but perfect on track, as the elbow angle is basically 90 degree, perfect leverage for steering.

Same seat installed in a 911 have a bit more reline built in, quite a bit more comfortable for street driving and and that extra angle is enough for me to feel comfortable even with a helmet on. 

The base is a bit wider than the foldable bucket, my ass is not big enough to fill it completely, not an issue in the 918 with the 6 point harness, but with only a 3 point seatbelt my ass would slide side to side and front to back in it. Learnt that the hard way when I track my 911R, as I don't have the luxury of using my left leg to brace like I can in a GT3RS. 

The shoulder 'wing' is tighter in the LWB, personally I prefer that for lateral support.

Thanks Whoopsy. That is nice to know.

Have you found the height adjusting in the LWB as a big plus over the foldable buckets ? I am 175 cm and not sure if I would benefit from lowering the LWB below the sitting position in a foldable bucket.

I was taught to sit as low as possible, to raise the sight line to farther away in the horizon, helps with focusing on whats up ahead, so when I am in the LWB, I lower them to the lowest setting anyway, which is pretty much the height that is fixed in the foldable. 

I know some people prefer to sit higher and they like the height adjustment on the LWB. All depends on how you are used to driving.

Very good. I assumed that you could sit lower in the LWB than in the foldable. Glad to learn, that is not the case. This takes one variable out of the equation. I was extremely satisfied with my former foldable buckets and found the sitting height to be perfect.

So far, I am leaning towards the foldable buckets but will reserve my final judgement until I have had some sitting time in the LWB.

Thanks again.

I  checked closely the LWB these last two day at Paul Richard . I wore only the helmet , but David had the hans in his GT3 with the LWB .  Conclusion : It will finally depend on how your spine and head is shaped . If your head is slightly forward on your spine you have no problem as there is enough room . If you have a head that sits very straight on your spine ( more to the back ) then , with the hans, it will be slightly uncomfortable as it touches the head rest . Most people have their heads more to the front of their body , so leaving enough room for helmet + hans .

I bought also a hans , but did not try it yet . When purchasing the guy at Orecca told me there are two shapes . One more upwards and one that leans more backwards . If you buy the one leaning more backwards it will not be suited for GT cars . You need the one that is more upwards . 

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

And another thing : 

The event I attended was the Swiss Porsche Cup  . They were different categories . One was GT3 cars doing races ( so cars not driven on the street )  Hans is mandatory for them . Also there were driving sessions for non racers ( that I attended ) . All together there were maybe 20 GT3 / RS . I did not look into all the cars, but all the ones I looked in had the LWB .  Conclusion : LWB do fit most people comfortably . There must be a very small percentage that finds them not suited to their spine / head type .

Joël : You need to sit in them to find out for yourself . Reading the internet will not give you the correct answer .

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Eric, thank you so much. This is very helpful too. The decision is clearly a tough one, but you are right, I absolutely have to sit in one. My dealer has promised me, that he will notify me as soon as they get a new car with LWB in their showroom.

Like I said, I was very much pleased with the foldable buckets, but the design is now 8 years old. I also think that the LWB might be a bit lighter (why else would they name it Lightweight bucket seats) and I keep reading that you can sit lower in the LWB, which contradict what Whoopsy has said earlier :

I lower them to the lowest setting anyway, which is pretty much the height that is fixed in the foldable.

However I value Whoopsy's opinion a lot and would assume that he is right. 

Here are two photos of both seats. Can you judge from this if you are sitting higher in the foldable buckets (the headrests look taller)?

Regarding HANS System, I used to have one in my Lotus 2-Eleven. At first you will hate it because you cant turn your head anymore, only by a few degrees. But you will soon adept and appreciate the added safety.  

Judging by the pictures, if you look at were the backrest meets the seat bottom, and compare that to the fixed height of the arm rest, looks like you sit higher in the LWB, but the overall height of the head is going to also depend on the vertical angle of the backrest too which is hard to tell.

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

I'm 183cm and find the LWB too low at the lowest setting. I raise it up a little bit to bring it to what feels like the height the folding buckets in my Boxster were. Also worth noting is that they recline slightly as you lower them. I think you need to get to a dealer who has cars with both and give them a try..

2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

I am 192cm and I really like the LWBs, would definitiely go with them again

Gnil:

I  checked closely the LWB these last two day at Paul Richard . I wore only the helmet , but David had the hans in his GT3 with the LWB .  Conclusion : It will finally depend on how your spine and head is shaped . If your head is slightly forward on your spine you have no problem as there is enough room . If you have a head that sits very straight on your spine ( more to the back ) then , with the hans, it will be slightly uncomfortable as it touches the head rest . Most people have their heads more to the front of their body , so leaving enough room for helmet + hans .

I bought also a hans , but did not try it yet . When purchasing the guy at Orecca told me there are two shapes . One more upwards and one that leans more backwards . If you buy the one leaning more backwards it will not be suited for GT cars . You need the one that is more upwards . 

 

Is it possible to put a front spacer on the seat to recline it back a bit and get some more neck room for those that it doesn't fit?

Past-President, Porsche Club of America - Upper Canada Region

Mithras:

Gnil:

I  checked closely the LWB these last two day at Paul Richard . I wore only the helmet , but David had the hans in his GT3 with the LWB .  Conclusion : It will finally depend on how your spine and head is shaped . If your head is slightly forward on your spine you have no problem as there is enough room . If you have a head that sits very straight on your spine ( more to the back ) then , with the hans, it will be slightly uncomfortable as it touches the head rest . Most people have their heads more to the front of their body , so leaving enough room for helmet + hans .

I bought also a hans , but did not try it yet . When purchasing the guy at Orecca told me there are two shapes . One more upwards and one that leans more backwards . If you buy the one leaning more backwards it will not be suited for GT cars . You need the one that is more upwards . 

 

Is it possible to put a front spacer on the seat to recline it back a bit and get some more neck room for those that it doesn't fit?

That could be a good idea . I do not know how the seats are bolt on the chassis  and the other thing is the roll cage . It is pretty close to the back of the seat , at least for people who have the seat quite to the back .

 964 Carrera 4 --  997.2 C2S , -20mm --  991 GT3 RS 

Mithras:

Gnil:

I  checked closely the LWB these last two day at Paul Richard . I wore only the helmet , but David had the hans in his GT3 with the LWB .  Conclusion : It will finally depend on how your spine and head is shaped . If your head is slightly forward on your spine you have no problem as there is enough room . If you have a head that sits very straight on your spine ( more to the back ) then , with the hans, it will be slightly uncomfortable as it touches the head rest . Most people have their heads more to the front of their body , so leaving enough room for helmet + hans .

I bought also a hans , but did not try it yet . When purchasing the guy at Orecca told me there are two shapes . One more upwards and one that leans more backwards . If you buy the one leaning more backwards it will not be suited for GT cars . You need the one that is more upwards . 

 

Is it possible to put a front spacer on the seat to recline it back a bit and get some more neck room for those that it doesn't fit?

It's a 'simple' fix for a lot of people. 

But, it also compromises the integrity of the whole setup. The crash standard and strength of the 'system' was based on the seat seating flat on the mount. With spacers on the front bolt, the angle and thrust on the 'system' is altered and had not been tested. The front bolt may or may not hold in the event of a crash/impact. What if the bolt sheared off because of the spacers?

Porker:

Gnil:

humm, interesting ...... big differences from one person to another . Joel , you will need to test it yourself , as I can not relate at all to M3ike's experience . Maybe the size of the person makes a big difference 

In Switzerland they call M3ike "The Oak tree of St. Gallen", go figure... 

I always get mistaken as the twin brother of Dwayne the Rock Johnson 

Im 182cm tall and a slim build, at 78kg so would probably say very average. There is another downside of the LWBs, they tend to be worn on the outside bolster if you don't take care. My seat was also exchanged as it was creaking in corners. I wished they had the same cloth as the ones in the 997 Mk1, this was really motorsport derived and hard wearing. The best seat anyway is the Recaro P1300 which was also fitted during the Ring lap of the 991.2 GT3 by Lars Kern.

Rgds

Mike

M3ike:

Porker:

Gnil:

humm, interesting ...... big differences from one person to another . Joel , you will need to test it yourself , as I can not relate at all to M3ike's experience . Maybe the size of the person makes a big difference 

In Switzerland they call M3ike "The Oak tree of St. Gallen", go figure... 

I always get mistaken as the twin brother of Dwayne the Rock Johnson 

Im 182cm tall and a slim build, at 78kg so would probably say very average. There is another downside of the LWBs, they tend to be worn on the outside bolster if you don't take care. My seat was also exchanged as it was creaking in corners. I wished they had the same cloth as the ones in the 997 Mk1, this was really motorsport derived and hard wearing. The best seat anyway is the Recaro P1300 which was also fitted during the Ring lap of the 991.2 GT3 by Lars Kern.

Rgds

Mike

there's this solution, not very elegant, but it surely helps.

I know but it looks  It would be great if the small piece of the side bolster could be exchanged, as kind of a wearable item. Does anyone  know?

..or you can just put your left hand on the sill and lift yourself in over the bolster. Mine still look like new.

2015 911 GT3, 1964 Type 1

DaveGordon:

..or you can just put your left hand on the sill and lift yourself in over the bolster. Mine still look like new.

Yeah, I didn't have my GT4 that long but no wear at all when doing that...

Also helps to slide the seat all the way back before getting in/out...

--

73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi

Agree with most of the above.

Had the fixed in my 996.1, foldable in my 997.2 and LWB in the GT4 now. Still prefer the Carrera GT seat though...